To try and talk friend out of getting a puppy?

[Cadela]

Friend is lovely but I don’t know if I should just keep my mouth shut or not.

She has a 5yo Dd with autism, and they want to get a goldendoodle/goldendor/some other mix of golden retriever as a friend for her.

They’ve never owned a dog before, have done next to no research (clearly from the breeds they are choosing!) and I’m worried for them.

They both work full time and full on jobs, and are not active people. They have a tiny house in the city center and aren’t a massively outdoorsy active family.

I don’t know what to say that isn’t going to be taken badly, but also don’t want to see them getting a puppy and having the very harsh reality of what it’s actually like to own a dog making it difficult for them or the dog.

I guess you can just have a general
conversation about it. Ie. Who’s going to get up
in middle of night to let the dog out? Who’s going to look after puppy who will need full
time care initially? Where is dog going to be during the day - can’t be left alone or in crate for to long? Who’s going to train dog? Can they afford feed, toys, insurance etc?

can you point them in direction of autism assistance dog charities who can help?

Tell them all about how much puppies bite. My puppy is a bitty demon. I can put up with it but a small child may well get scared.

Someone posted a question like this AGES ago on AIBU and got ripped to shreds 'you can't police who gets a dog.' So, I hope you've got your hard-hat on OP as the Doghouse is just as bad about this and people 'policing' dog breeds.

But, IMO a good friend should 100% make clear the risks to people thinking of getting high-energy dogs when they know nothing about the breed.

On top of what PP said, I'd make the following clear to her (as frankly but gently as possible);

• Golden's (and mongrels bred from them) are HIGH energy. They need a good 1-2hours a day. Any less than that is cruel. That is in cold and warm weather (in summer you have to be up EARLY).
• Their coats need consistent maintenance (2-3 times grooming a week) and that is worse for the doodle-crosses where the coat is dense and can matt causing significant issues.
• They are mouthy and when they are puppies (up to 18 months) their mouthing can, on occasion, border on aggressive as they do not know their own strength.
• They are NOT good with young children. They stay puppy like (as larger breeds do) for up to 2 years and routinely knock young children over. Once they are adults, they can be. But up until then, they are not.
• They are expensive both in terms of purchasing (reputably - a pedigree golden is anywhere between £2-£3K, and non-reputably) and in terms of maintenance (grooming, toys, flea treatment, insurance, wormer, feeding)
• Goldens can go horribly wrong because of the combination of being under-exercised and living with small children.
• They need mental and physical stimulation. If left alone all day they will destroy the house.
• They come with a variety of health issues (cancer, dysplasia) all of which are expensive to treat (£10s of thousands over a lifetime in a bad case) and ongoing issues.

Ultimately, however, they won't listen to you. If they're stupid enough to even be thinking about doing this...then they won't listen.

They won't get a good breeder who will sell to them (good breeders vet the potential owners and a child, full time jobs and a small house in the centre of a city are all just red flags) and so they will purchase some puppy-farm puppy that will likely either be significantly unhealthy and/or have a variety of behavioural issues.

I'd tell them. But I'd be prepared to lose the friendship over it (that being said, I couldn't stay friends with someone that bloody selfish/stupid anyway...).

Edit - for a few typos...

@Devilshands covered it

To reassure you OP i'd try and talk anyone out of a dog. If theyve never had one theyre in for the biggest of shocks esp those breeds

@Devilshands agree with absolutely everything you’ve said, especially the last paragraph.

I’ve always had working spaniels so am an old hand at raising puppies - haven’t done it for 10 years now because my last one was such a nightmare!

I just don’t want to see a dog getting passed from pillar to post because they haven’t thought it through.

I’ll try and explain just how absolutely shit the first year is and see where it gets me. A punch in the face probably 😂

When I got my collie I didn't listen to anyone and loads of people warned me away (I had visions of what it would be like).

I think you could say something general about other breeds that might suit them better but if they really want this dog they won't listen.

We had lunch as a group of the mums yesterday and someone asked her how big they get and she gestured about springer spaniel size, and I just thought oh god you have no idea do you?

But obv didn’t want to make a scene in front of everyone else.

My DM used t9 breed golden retrievers and she would never sell one to people who work full time. It is cruel to leave a dog on its own all day. It's also likely to chew everything in sight.

I’ve got a 12 week old GR pup and we only have her as I am at home all the time.

The breeder would have considered us if we both worked full time anyway, or if we didn’t have a good outdoor space.

Even if you take a few weeks off work to house train, what do you do after? They can’t leave the poor thing along 8+ hours a day, you’d be shelling out a fortune for doggy daycare or dog walkers.

Oh and the size - this is the 4th GR I’ve had in my life. Two were reasonably sized. One was a Shetland pony and this pup was 11kg at 11 weeks 🤣

ETA our breeder didn’t care about children. She has 4 of her own, her mum bred before she took it over (we got our last pup from her 17 years ago), their dogs and puppies were always around children from day one. I’ve always had a GR with my own small children, it’s never been an issue.

Taken at Crufts.

Oops, accidentally added a photo - I’ve reported myself.

I got a puppy with my asd child in mind. He is calm and relaxed around dogs so I thought it might work well. It DID work well for the rest of the family and the dog (miniature schnauzer) but my asd son took four years to pay her any attention at all. Until about three months ago he just ignored her. He just didn't appreciate the way she knocked over his Lego. It really wasn't the amazing bonding experience I hoped for her and him. However the rest of us adore her, plus
I am home all the time and we have eight acres of well fenced off garden for her to run around off lead, plus four adults and teens to walk her.

Ask them who is going to be with the puppy 24/7 for more than likely the first year at least. Most pups are very very needy and day care won’t take them until they are 6 months old. My OH WFH flexibly and the first 6 months were a nightmare and our pup was small and actually very good in hindsight.

We unexpected ended up woth a goldendoodle! We had no back ground on her and she was around 4 months when we got her she is now 7 months. We had no idea how big she would get (she was rescued after her owner was caught kicking her outside our local tesco) shes the size of a spaniel now so we dont think she has full poddle in her. she has been our easiest dog to train and is an absolute dream BUT we are home all the time and she comes everywhere with us. Both our cavapoo and her come everywhere with us and we walk them 3 times a day. They are very social dogs and hate being alone even while we nip upstair, the training we are doing with her has come on leaps over the last couple of months but I'd hate for one to be left alone for long periods of time. Even our cavapoo again bought to us at 14 months after a rspca rescue is highly sprung if we didnt walk him alot he would be a nightmare and people always comment that awwww isn't he small bet he's not hard work! Yes he is hard work don't be put off by his size lol

Are they aware of what is involved in house training a dog?

The amount of wee and poo that has to be cleared up and the fact that sometimes you are just tracking down a smell? That some dogs take a long time to train?

Have a chat with her straight, she won’t listen, but behind the scenes contact rescues to give them the heads up, also make specific links with animal lover/independent rescues so when she decides she “can’t cope wah wah” there will be help that will spare the dogs life. If she’s gumtree/preloved level, you’ll have to take over the entire rehoming process so dog doesn’t end up abused/ used as bait for fighting dogs. Still, I hope the dog ends up loved and remains in the home for its life as it should

Not even slightly. It’s just a disaster waiting to happen.

I’ve said I’d walk the dog for them when they’re at work (I have MUG on my forehead) so hoping I can do some training with it. But obviously if they’re not consistent it won’t help.

Hopefully the breeder they choose will say they aren’t suitable and it will give them some food for thought.

I really don’t think you should offer to help out.

I think the general all purpose comment 'You must be mad!' is suitable when they start talking about getting a dog dow the wrong reasons, which sadly they are .

That should instigate a conversation from their end which lets you off from poking your nose in as they have now asked for your view.

You can then raise the points that you posted here.

A common mistake is to get a dog as a friend for their child as if the dog will be an amusing playmate to occupy the child and give the parent a breather. That misconception is purely selfish and not in the dogs best interest.

Of course, many dogs will fulfil that role naturally but many don't and to buy a dog for that purpose and finding out the dog doesn't like it or the child hurts the dog is a very sad and realistic situation and the dog usually gets rehomed or even worse, bites the child and is put down.

If these people get a dog I personally would be very angry and would not wish to see the poor creature in their household and I would drop the friendship like a ton of bricks and tell them why.

No I don’t think so either, but it’s either that or a mistreated animal and I don’t think I could live with that. I’d rather help if I can and make sure it’s ok.

I wouldn’t offer to help out because you’re then enabling their behaviour. Also, you may teach the dog to walk well, but doesn’t mean it will walk well with them. What happens if you can’t walk the dog, or when they’re out at work?

We had a trainer friend over yesterday. Our dog instantly behaved better with him than us. He likes to try it on with us, but with friend he knew he wasn’t going to get anywhere.

Instead of making it easy for them, list all the potential problems.

I don’t think breeder will refuse as it’s money in their pocket

A good, ethical breeder would 100% refuse to home a puppy with people who work full time out of the home (their requirements are often not much less stringent than those of rescue shelters), however there are plenty of people who don’t care as long as they’ve got money in the pocket

I wouldn't offer to walk it while they are at work because that means they will just leave the poor thing at home all day or you will become free doggy day care.

Could you remind them that a puppy is like a newborn in terms of needs. Make an alternative breed suggestion? Is an older rescue dog an option? (Not a dog owner...suspect rehoving with kids is a minefield just like with cats).

This. You hear a lot that people want a dog for their children (or a cat, a rabbit, on and on).

My children have always firmly bonded with the dogs, but that’s not why I bought them.

The dogs were for me.

The fact that the children love them were just a bonus.