To try and talk friend out of getting a puppy?

[Cadela]

Friend is lovely but I don’t know if I should just keep my mouth shut or not.

She has a 5yo Dd with autism, and they want to get a goldendoodle/goldendor/some other mix of golden retriever as a friend for her.

They’ve never owned a dog before, have done next to no research (clearly from the breeds they are choosing!) and I’m worried for them.

They both work full time and full on jobs, and are not active people. They have a tiny house in the city center and aren’t a massively outdoorsy active family.

I don’t know what to say that isn’t going to be taken badly, but also don’t want to see them getting a puppy and having the very harsh reality of what it’s actually like to own a dog making it difficult for them or the dog.

Depends on the breeder. I was fully “vetted” by mine, including questions regarding who was looking after the dog when I was at work and because I was coming from far away, wanted pictures of my garden and a general overview of the routine.
She was very insistent to remind me that, whilst her dogs were bred for health and temperament, it was absolutely my responsibility to make sure they were trained and socialised well. If I could no longer look after them, they were to go straight back to her, no questions asked.

I already had a dog in the home as well, and had had two others previously, so I was no novice with the breed.

In fact, her being so completely anal about who she was selling her puppies to, was one of the reasons I went back to her to get youngest DDog.

I really hope friend comes across a good breeder then but even if refused, will just find a pup elsewhere probably

Some people make me sick!
Do your friends think that this animal is a toy or something?
Its cruel to have a dog if you’re both in full time work.
Bloody hell, some people 🤷‍♀️
Poor puppy…

I think you need to get back in touch and withdraw your walk offer. Say thinking about it, goldens get so strong that you can’t commit to doing the level of care it might need if it’s more it’s golden side than poodle (assuming it’s a mini poodle cross not standard). That you think it’s best to say now so they can price up doggy day care in their plans, given that your sure they wouldn’t just leave the dog all day (possibly reference that they’re risking coming home to a trashed house out of boredom if they do)

and possibly drop round a copy of the contented puppy book - say it’s your old copy or something.

the only other suggestion would be they look into which breed of dogs are recommended as therapy dogs. Beagles and labs are the usual. Poodle crosses are only recommended for allergy reasons in schools /hospitals.

I've a 17 year old with autism and I was thinking the other day how much I regret not getting a dog. He has empathy for animals. I really should have got him a dog to love. I would have been responsible, but it's not like i would have minded. I wish I had. He still holds it against me that I didn't get him a puppy. Gaming has destroyed his empathy imo. Oh the things id do differently if I could!

BTW - as someone who’s dc is currently starting the assessment process for autism, you get recommended to get a dog. It’s really presented as some sort of magic solution by many websites /books /professionals.

we got our dog as a puppy around the time we were first thinking about assessment for dc, and yes, it’s been great for our dc, and our dog has calmed her and helped, but if we hadn’t got the dog because we wanted a dog, id have said the added work of a dog was more than the benefit to dc. I got a dog because I want a dog, the value to dc wasn’t expected and was a nice bonus, on its own though I wouldn’t have said it was worth it to a family who doesn’t want the work of a dog anyway.

not sure if that’s clear what I’m trying to say, but it’s hard to resist the “get a dog” constant advice.

It’s going to be your dog isn’t it.

If you are anything like me, helping out will lead to puppy love (literally) and I’d end up keeping the pet.

This is going to end very badly, they’ll need at least a month off work I would think to housetrain. You can’t leave a dog 8 hours, dog walker at a bare minimum and that’s not great with a young dog. Whining, barking, hair, expense, biting. Getting up to walk the dog, no matter what the weather. Vet bills. God, it’s a terrible idea. When you are prepared it’s bad enough.
Never get a pet for a child.

Oh x post @HappyEDT - it does seem to have been a good choice for our family, but dc does struggle with the dog not being just for her entertainment. but it is pushed as a solution, it might not have worked for your family, and it would have given you another big responsibility.

if anything, the dog has done most for my mental health.

By offering to help before they get the dog you are enabling them to say to the breeder, 'And we have an experienced friend who is absolutely gagging to help us with training and will walk the dog as often as needed.' Your offer to help is a mistake if you want to stop your friend getting a dog she shouldn'.

We offered to help a neighbour (with a very busy young family and full time job) with their new puppy. Within a year they asked us to take the dog as we were the ones walking, training, taking the dog on holiday with us and to the vets.

I'd told her the puppy would be too much for her and explained the realities but she still went ahead.

Now here's the most appalling thing. Within a year of us taking the dog on they BOUGHT ANOTHER DOG!!!! Apparently their circumstances had changed and they had more time for a dog. (they hadn't - five years later and that dog was so badly trained we couldn't even walk it with ours so it never had a walk)

Speak your mind in no uncertain terms because this will go tits up and you will regret not being forthright when the dog is handed on/left looking out of the window for 8 hours or more a day.

I could have made it work! The school day was short at primary school level, he had an older sister, at that point when he was begging for a dog, I worked but it, and locally. Also it may not have occurred to @Cadela but it's possible her friend is not as blind as she believes to the challenges of dog ownership but is going to do what is best for her daughter.
I wish id done this for my son. I let myself be talked out of it by people who also assumed I was naive. Nothing worthwhile is easy. They manage the challenges but I think (some people) feel superior and believe I have risen to these challenges but you won't be able to.
So if anybody with a child on the spectrum is begging for a dog see if you can make it work and don't be talked out of it by people who assume they can cope but you can't!! I think back to my son begging for a dog and my heart aches 2ith regret. I was weak.

I don't know why you don't say anything when she talks about it ? Asking things like oh are you going to get day care or they are so bitey as puppies hopefully your Dd will be alright, just talk to her about it before she buys a little dog that she/they might not cope with.

I think a general conversation where you just discuss all the issues without appearing to persuade them either way.

”Have you thought about when the dog ….”
“What will you do when….”

“It’ll be expensive/time consuming to… hope you are ready for that” tinkly laugh

I'd go all out excited: how much they'll love the long walks for the next 12 years, how it will be a doddle getting up early for 1 hour pre-work walks as 'young kids are up early anyway, so you're used to that'. How funny goldies/goldie mixes are when they take up nearly the whole sofa/bed/car seat and refuse to budge, so no-one gets a look in.

With a bit of 'aw man I loved my puppies, but the poo and pee everywhere for months and the biting, OMG the biting, my hands, clothes and furniture were in shreds', it's just so hard! Plus the money--do they have £250+ spare a month? Food/vet/pet insurance is all crazy expensive now and that's without daycare, training costs and replacing damaged clothes/items.

If you really want to put them off you caring for the dog, tell them they'll have to give you their dog's vet and insurance details in case of emergencies and agree a cost with the vet if you can't get hold of them, 'since simple emergencies can cost hundreds or more'.

They may still get a dog, but at least they'll have some inkling of what they're getting into!

Neighbours of mine did this. Watched some film or tv show about a kid with autism and a dog and promptly went out and got one. Fuck knows where from as apparently they got some sort of “deal” from the breeder. Thinking about it I think they went to a part of the UK very well known for it’s puppy farms…

anyway they couldn’t leave the autistic child with the dog unsupervised because she pulled it’s tail, fur, carried it round, and generally treated it like a toy. If it reacted she’d smack it and tell it off.

ended up having to keep the dog and child completely separate as not only did the dog need training, so did the child. Twice the work and not enough time as both parents worked.

luckily they’d hit on a breed that was happy to go running with dad on an evening, and on the morning school run, and lounge around the rest of the day.

i don’t honestly see how you’ll stop them o/p. You could bring up that doodlypoodlys will almost 100% be puppy farmed, but willing to bet they’ll be that person who gets it anyway and sees themselves as a hero for “rescuing” the poor pup.

Our neighbour's have a labradoodle that is the size of a Newfoundland. They love it but are still shocked at how big it is. Daft giant of a thing.

A friend of mine had an autism assistance dog for her son, but he was from a charity (?) that provides them.

He had been trained from a puppy, like a sight assistance
dog is, and they were matched with him when the dog was around a year old and ready to work. He was on a special harness when out about just like a sight assistance dog so he was allowed anywhere with them as working assistance dog.

He was a lovely, black lab. Her son thrived with him all through his childhood and now the dog is old and is thier “retired” family pet, but the key was he was specially trained for autism. They didn’t just go out and buy any puppy hoping it would help.

Yes agree with you all re helping. Thats easy enough to get out of as I’ll just say I’m working from the office more and won’t be at home.

There is a labradoodle that lives near us that I'm convinced is a bear it's massive 😀

I think people genuinely don’t realise how really hard puppies are. They are fed the media and Disney view. In reality it’s hours and hours of relentless, repetition, mess, stress and planning your life around a creature that can’t be left or cone with you in some situations.

There are exceptions - I know people who have done nothing and got an ok dog but it’s not the norm.

@HappyEDT I think (some people) feel superior and believe I have risen to these challenges but you won't be able to.

I don't think this is the case at all. Anyone who has ever had a dog knows the decade of sacrifice, commitment, mud, fur, obligation and responsibility it entails. The costs of kennels/extra holiday accommodation charges, insurance, vets bills, grooming bills, damage to furniture all mount up. The nightmare if your situation changes re housing or work and what to do with the dog. The having to turn down invitations to weddings or days out as the dog can't go.

If you love your dog it is 100% worth it - but there is a reality rarely portrayed in the media. So much of the image of dog ownership is that it's all instagram photos of sleeping pups or dogs romping in flower filled meadows.

If you have a dog you kind of see it as a duty to pass on the reality to save people from falling for the image. It's a caring for prospective owners and dogs thing, not a superiority thing.

It sounds as though you are giving yourself a very hard time about something that you quite rightly thought was a perfectly reasonable sensible decision at at the time.

I think you’ll struggle to talk them out of it. My friend is getting a puppy soon. She has health problems, is often fatigued and works long days…I’m skeptical but I know her well enough that she won’t be dissuaded 🤷🏻‍♀️
I agree with pp that they clearly haven’t done their homework regarding breed. A family at my DD’s school have that breed. She is absolutely beautiful but she is huge! (Up to my chest) and a bundle of energy. She has no concept of her own size. She needs really long walks too.
I would say you need to pull out of the walking offer now. Say things have changed at work. Source the number of a couple of dog walkers. I ended up as a single parent with a dog (prior to XH moving out he WFH or took her to the office). I work part time so I get a dog walker in to get her out my work days and she’s with family one day. It’s £12 for a 30 minute walk (going rate around here). Have they even thought about costs? My dog costs me around £200 a month - insurance, dog walker, care cover (things like vaccines and nail clipping) plus food. She’s a medium size breed so not eating huge amounts! You could point that out when they are factoring it all in.
I would try to warn them but I think it’ll fall on deaf ears. People think getting a dog will be all lovely when they snuggle up to you, and it can be! But it’s bloody hard work to get to that point. I’ve a horrible feeling either the puppy will be back to the breeder PDQ or you’ll end up doing all the work or having the dog. Pull back now before you end up stuck.

I think you can easily frame your concerns in terms of the problems and additional workloads that puppies bring along with them without saying you guys shouldn't get a puppy.

Yes maybe I can casually drop in how much puppies bite, and especially GRs! And the shedding, and the size, and the expense.

Hopefully it will come across as helpful rather than judgy.

Really can't understand why you've offered to walk the potential dog rather than just being honest about what a terrible idea it is for them to get one. If you're close enough a friend to walk their dog you're close enough a friend to try to talk them out of it.

Goldendoodles are the most nuts dogs I've ever met. Bouncy and high energy, while being massive, is a terrible combination if they're not owned by someone experienced. Surely no one breeding them is an ethical breeder.