Breeding my lab

[suspiciousmums]

Afternoon all, I’m the proud owner of a beautiful golden lab and am looking at breeding from her and wondering if anyone has any tips please? My girl is KC registered, and I’m wondering about the pros and cons of registering any potential pups with the KC? I had a look on their site and found it all a bit confusing to be honest. The reason I want to breed for my girl is that she has the most gentle temperament, she’s a beautiful example of the breed. She’s had no medical issues, is a very well socialised dog. We would like to keep one pup of hers, plus several of my family members have also expressed interest in her puppies. I live in a very dog friendly, rural area and have also had a lot of locals approach asking about pups so I feel confident I would find good owners whom I can vet, and fortunately would have the space to be able to take back any pups if needed. I have grown up with dogs, however this would be the first time breeding. Although I have no experience of whelping pups, I have a medical background and have been present at 50+ human births and so I feel I would remain calm in the situation. Any advice appreciated, thanks

The fact that you refer to your yellow Labrador as a “golden” Labrador indicates you’re not best placed to be breeding. Then there are the million other reasons why owners of “lovely pets” shouldn’t bring another lot of puppies into the world.

Enjoy your pet. Don’t breed from her.

Kindly, dont breed for the sake of it

The registering with the KC is the least of your worries tbh. There is so much that can go wrong - think about how you would feel if this had a negative impact on your girls health.

There's also vets bills to consider, plus of course all the time looking after the pups. You sound like a lovely dog owner, I would leave it at that personally.

Thing is, pretty much every lab is lovely if they are socialised and trained. Thats their thing - it’s why they are so very popular as pets/ assistance dogs/ service animals.
No offence, but yours is probably just an example of that.

There is a lot of work to be done before you even think of breeding - hip & elbow scores, PRA screening etc ( lots more but I don’t know the current requirements. KC registration will require both parents to be registered prior to mating.

Labs have big litters, they are not hard to find.

My sister is a vet. The amount of emergency out of hours call she has taken due to (idiot) 'breeders' cocking up somehow is staggering. She once got called out because a bitch ('a lovely dog') had attacked and killed the entire litter.

Do you know how to respond or what to do if your dog does that? If not. Don't breed.

The rest of it; your pet being lovely, hip scores, elbow scores, heart issues, inbreeding coefficient means nothing.

My golden sire was a Crufts Best in breed Champion. He has champion grandparents on his mothers side. His elbow and hip scores are exceptional. His inbreeding coefficient is amazing. He is the nicest dog, and most handsome dog I have met. We are constantly stopped in the street by people wanting to admire him. Would I stud him out? No. Why not? Because randomly breeding dogs is irresponsible.

Please don't breed from your dog. You don't know enough about it and there are enough 'lovely' labs out there.

Why is everyone so against breeding your own dogs?
It’s a strange thing, and just trying to understand why?

Because not everyone wants or can get a rescue dog, so why is it so bad to breed at much loved family dog?

Genuinely interested not trying to provoke a reaction or anything.

Enough puppies already alive needing homes..

Dogs health is a huge reason why people are against it. It's a huge responsibility for all the little lives you've brought into the world and they deserve thought first

the advice for potential breeders on Kennel Club is pretty straight forward.

My advice for breeding would be 'don't'. However, I realise that you probably will go ahead anyway, so please do the basics.

Get your dog health tested. This isn't the same as a health check with your vet. It is a series of breed specific screening tests which check for inherited conditions common in the breed. You need to have a hip & elbow score for labs. Annual eye certificates. DNA screening for EIC (exercise induced collapse). You will need to go to a specialist vet for these, it may be a long way away and they will be very expensive but they are the basics of understanding that you are breeding from a healthy dam. What if something goes wrong and you lose your beloved dog in this endeavour?

You need to choose a sire (father) with low hip/elbow scores and clear genetic testing (eyes, DNA) and a proven track record for sire. How are you going to do it? A mate or buying semen? You need to check that they are not related in any way to your girl as that increases the risk of genetic defects (there is a checker on the KC website, it is called the 'inbreeding coefficient'). You need to consider the temperament of the dogs. Two loopy dogs will likely result in a highly strung litter. If you have a laid back girl, do you want a laid back male or do you want to balance her out a bit with something a bit more lively?

What's the set up for whelping? Can she have a quiet space where she won't be bothered by everyone but is also warm/dry/happy/safe? What if something goes wrong? Insurance? Worst case scenario?

There's loads to consider. It's not just 'my dog is nice, ergo her puppies will be cute'.

(edited for typo)

If you could breed just one healthy puppy, or control the size of a lab litter so that you knew that every puppy had a good home to go to - plus all the other stuff that PPs have mentioned - great.

My lab was one of ten puppies, from a small but experienced breeder. His mum needed vet intervention. A friend bred from her bitch to get one more - twelve puppies.
Thats a lot of responsibility and vets bills.

I wouldn’t, I’d be worried about the stress on my dog. I can’t imagine it does their joints much good to carry the pregnancy. Trips back and forth to the vet. What if something goes wrong? Can you afford a C section? Insurance?

Someone approached me once and asked if I’d consider breeding from my dog, I said no. He’s also a lovely Lab.

1. Harm to the bitch: Because breeders who don't know what they are doing can cause serious damage to their own dogs or puppies.
2. Breeding is carefully regulated for a reason. Too many dogs with the same genetics (same grandparents) etc, narrows the gene pool going forwards. Which is why most breeders who sell you a pup make you sign a contract stating you will never breed from your dog without permission.
3. Breeding is not cheap. Getting your dog tested/finding the right sire (if you're breeding your bitch), is expensive. A decent stud of some breeds (i.e my Golden) costs upwards of £2K. Vets fees can be another £5-10K if you need a C section/pups vaccines/something goes wrong. If your dog then has a small litter, you're not making a profit.
4. Buying a dog (not a rescue) is expensive for a reason. As the most recent breeder I used said to me 'if you can't afford to spend £3K on a puppy, how the hell will you afford to pay a vets bill if something happens and your insurance won't pay out.' It is a fair point. Irresponsible breeding allows people to get dogs cheaply that they then cannot afford to look after. Yes, it's unfair. But no one should breed for the purpose of 'everyone deserves a dog.'
5. Owning one dog of one breed means nothing. Just because your lab is lovely, or your spaniel is lovely, doesn't mean you know enough about the breed to make the right decision about whether to breed from your dog. Many breeders have been in the trade for 30-40 years and their parents did it before them. They know the breed inside and out. Someone who has only had 2-3 cocker spaniels in their life (for example) does not know enough about the breed (realistically) to be a responsible and expert breeder.
6. It's time consuming and nothing like human births. A good breeder does not leave their whelping bitches side for more than a few minutes at a time when the bitch is heavily pregnant/just given birth. I know I keep referring to my Golden's breeder...but she slept in the room with her dog. When she had to walk one of her other dogs, her husband would take over duty. You cannot just leave a pregnant bitch or a whelping bitch and live your life. 'Family breeders' (as the OP would be) do not understand this and put their bitch at risk.
7. Vetting homes for your dog is time consuming.

There are millions of other reasons...and if I had more energy I'd write them all. But those are the big ones.

For a start, it's yellow Labrador not golden.
To get decent owners for any puppies, you need your bitch and the intended sire to be hip and elbow scored. Elbows should be 0-0. Hips below 10. Also both need genetic screening for the terrible conditions that can be carried, passed on to the puppies and manifest during their lives.

I've been told multiple times I should breed from my dog.

People literally stopping me in the street giving me their number in case I ever decide to.

I would be able to sell puppies 50 times over and be super choosy about where they go.

The reason why I won't- I love her too much, there's literally no good part of breeding her from her perspective. Painful, health problems, risky birth, then no puppies after 3 months anyway. Why would you put your precious dog through that? What would she get out of it?

Thanks for the responses re breeding.

I have a large fantastic behaved, good looking Doberman and people are always saying I should breed her.

it’s not something I’m actively considering as my life isn’t in the right place for it, but was curious as to why it’s deemed such a negative thing.
It would probably give me a nervous breakdown! Haha!
plus all my other 3 animals are rescues and so if I’m going to add to the family it will be via rescue again.
I guess like many other dog owners I have wondered what her pups would be like, but after reading this I’ll just imagine :)

I’m getting a puppy this week, from a responsible breeder with a long history and show success.
Following the birth the mother looked exhausted, the puppies nursed and grew, at the three week mark they suspected a UTI and started the mom dog on antibiotics. Exactly 4 weeks after the birth, the mother dog was rushed for emergency surgery for retained products, was septic, uterus removed, developed DIC, and died.
7 puppies needed constant care by a co-breeder who was devastated by the loss of her own very much loved dog.
It’s risky.

Some excellent posts here setting out why you shouldn’t breed your labrador. The reasons not to breed far outweigh any notions about breeding.

The issue we have with dog breeding is that the choice now is:
Rescue (doesn't work for everyone)
Puppy from proven show lines (often not bred to have good pet temperaments; also a fairly limited supply)
Puppy from proven working lines (definitely not for everyone - I have two and they are bloody hard work!)
Puppy from puppy farm
Puppy from idiots people breeding the latest fad variety.

I'm not sure that this is ideal. I'd much rather get a pet puppy from someone who has bred a litter from their pet (after health tests as necessary) than a bloody puppy farm or someone churning out 'fluffy coated merle frenchies'.

OP, before you decide whether or not to go ahead, try and find someone local to you who is an experienced and responsible breeder and have a long chat. Be aware that current demand for puppies is very low - an experienced gundog breeder I know is holding back at the moment, and he normally has no issue at all finding buyers for his puppies (health tested stock, good workers, great temperaments, good conformation).

A family member of mine recently bred his dog and got a small litter out of it.

The mum was sick for several weeks after the birth - she needed multiple (expensive) vet visits and multiple lots of medication. Pups are now about six weeks old and she's still not 100%.

The puppies have trashed the room they're kept in - they pee and poo on everything, can escape their pen and will tear around destroying anything in their path.

He's had several potential buyers pull out and still has two puppies he can't find homes for - so he's now facing taking an adult and two puppies out for walks etc. until he can find them homes. If not..well, he either has to keep them both or give one up to a rescue.

The risk to your bitch is huge. How would you feel if you bred her and it killed her?

You need to get her eyes tested and elbows and hips scored first and take it from there. If I were you I’d be seeking out experienced lab breeders and having a chat. They’ll be able to direct you and help you make decisions.

You should only be breeding with a fully health tested excellent example of the breed, with the intention of choosing a sire to improve what you have.

The breeding coefficient and show/line breeding has to be taken in context.

For example most line bred dogs have a higher COI - not crazy high but higher than average. They though tend to be the ones who have had health tests and are bred with temperament in mind. That certainly was the case when we were looking for a pup.

Non line bred, my dog is lovely and there's a male and so let's mate them arrangements tend to produce a lower COI (or unknown in a lot of cases!) but very few health test or take temperament into account.

So the COI has to be taken in context. My dog has a higher COI than the breed average. Not high but higher. Her parents have been fully health tested, dad is a top show dog with a noteably fantastic temperament and mum is a sparky worker. Mated because they produce active but not highly strung pets for those who want the breed with a bit of spark for working and/or training.

If you are set on breeding, remember that you may well not even break even on costs.

You need to get the required health tests done, and only breed if scores are good. You have to pay for these. You will also have to pay stud fees, and all associated travel. (COI tool is free on KC website, so it's easy to check whether your proposed mating is a good match - potential puppies COI should be same as or lower than breed average, and ideally lower than that of the parents)

Check what your insurance covers - routine costs of normal pregnancy won't be (so additional food and wormers from day 40 onwards not covered) and costs of complications of a pregnancy are only covered in the more expensive policies. If yours doesn't cover that, check you have the ability to pay for OOH vet and caesarian section as minimum contingency fund.

Then of course you have all to costs (time and money) of the litter - everything from whelping pen in a good place, through dealing with pee everywhere, general chaos, more food, more bowls, vet checks, jabs, any medical attention they need, microchipping, KC paperwork, toys, early socialisation, time and effort of vetting potential purchasers and puppy contracts (the list could go on and on). And of course what would you do if a puppy didn't sell (not enough buyers, medical issue) And how you would cope with returned puppies - all good breeders require that puppies be returned to them if any need for rehoming emerges (you don't usually need to refund; you do need to take the dog back)

Have you got an experienced breeder who will help you? It's really important you know about signs of labour in bitches and when to call for help. Have you checked your vets OOH provision?

If your bitch is KC registered and you got her from a responsible breeder, surely your very first port of call should be that same breeder? After checking her pedigree to make sure there aren't any breeding restrictions that would need to be lifted.

Endorsement on breeding prevents the KC registration of any progeny - it doesn't stop breeding and the selling of unregistered puppies.

Owners of registered stud dogs will usually allow matings only when puppies are eligible for registration. And it's hard to find health test results of those who are not registered (you have to depend on what the owner tells/shows you)

Most bitches are just fine through pregnancy, whelping and onwards. But it's really important that you are prepared in case yours is one that is not - and that you absolutely know when you need to call the vet.