Breeding my lab

[suspiciousmums]

Afternoon all, I’m the proud owner of a beautiful golden lab and am looking at breeding from her and wondering if anyone has any tips please? My girl is KC registered, and I’m wondering about the pros and cons of registering any potential pups with the KC? I had a look on their site and found it all a bit confusing to be honest. The reason I want to breed for my girl is that she has the most gentle temperament, she’s a beautiful example of the breed. She’s had no medical issues, is a very well socialised dog. We would like to keep one pup of hers, plus several of my family members have also expressed interest in her puppies. I live in a very dog friendly, rural area and have also had a lot of locals approach asking about pups so I feel confident I would find good owners whom I can vet, and fortunately would have the space to be able to take back any pups if needed. I have grown up with dogs, however this would be the first time breeding. Although I have no experience of whelping pups, I have a medical background and have been present at 50+ human births and so I feel I would remain calm in the situation. Any advice appreciated, thanks

Ah, I've misunderstood that for years - thanks for clarifying. Shows how thoroughly I've looked into breeding...

Labs are yellow OP, not 'golden'.

labrador-lifeline.com

'We have dogs of all ages coming into us all the time '

That's just one charity of many.

Please do not breed from your dog.

We have a 14mo choc lab from a family who decided to breed their bitch with a friend's male lab.

The family were lovely but I think the experience turned out to be overwhelming. And our dog definitely has some problems which are a result of being bred by an amateur and inexperienced family.

There were 13 in the litter but two died. Still, a huge litter of 11 puppies. The first time we visited they were 4 weeks old and with the mum in a large whelping box in the living room. So far so good.

One month later, the family were struggling and the puppies were transfered to the sire's family to give the original family a break. I don't think the mother stayed with them.

By the time we collected our pup (at 8 weeks), the puppies were in the garage.

While the family tried to do everything 'correctly' and had the best of intentions, the impression I got was it far surpassed what they imagined it to be like. There were too many puppies for the mum to manage, so they were separated, meaning the puppies missed out on that vital initial education from mum.

Our pup (the first of the litter) is lovely, but she is much more challenging than a typical lab puppy - extremely bitey, excitable around people, etc. She still is at 14mo. So much so that even the vet and dog trainer, recommended we see a behavioural vet. We duly did, and while there is nothing 'wrong' with her, he said her early weeks have made her the way she is. Interestingly he said that some breeders will eliminate half of a big litter, precisely so that the mum can manage 4 or 5 puppies......

I can completely understand why you are being advised not to breed. Our dog's mother also needed veterinary intervention as it took two days for all the puppies to be born!!

Interestingly he said that some breeders will eliminate half of a big litter, precisely so that the mum can manage 4 or 5 puppies......

I have never heard of this happening...

I'm in France. I don't think he was recommending it as good practice, just pointing out that, for certain breeders, it is a way of managing big litters and selecting the "best".

While the family tried to do everything 'correctly' and had the best of intentions, the impression I got was it far surpassed what they imagined it to be like.

No they didn't. Do not be naive.

They dumped the pups AWAY from their mother before they were ready to leave. There is a reason pups stay with the bitch and not the father - to separate mums and pups before either are ready is a idiocy at best and downright cruel at worst. Those people then dumped the puppies in a garage.

Those were not people who 'tried' to do anything correctly at all. They didn't care about their bitch and they definitely didn't care about the pups. They just wanted a quick buck - just like every other 'family breeder' out there.

Well as the OP never returned, despite the sensible advice here, presumably it didn’t suit and they’ll be going ahead anyway……

Have you seen a stud dog mating a bitch under breeding in a breeding situation, would you really do that to your beloved dog ?

I hope your dog is extremely well insured to include pregnancy.

And if she dies as a result, well it doesn't matter does it as you will have all these well thought out puppies to make lots of money from.

If you can't figure it out from the KC and then you ask on social media, well - says it all

mind you there are some excellent replies ! esp the one from @CurlsnSunshinetime4tea

I wasn't aware there was a shortage of dogs 🙄

You are right about unforeseen issues. Our dog came from a very experienced breeder with limitless breed knowledge and who had multiple generations of older dogs to help socialise the pups. All very well managed but as the breeder said a full time job. She’d had to pay for someone to cover her day job for her to do it. One pup in the litter was very bolshy verging on aggressive with the rest of the litter on weaning and so had to be separated from the rest if they couldn’t supervise and sometimes when they could do it didn’t impact the welfare of the litter. That pup then needed separate interactions and care. It was a small litter. That pup had a home lined up but the breeder was unsure of selling so was considering keeping at least until they could establish the type of home she’d need in order to give her the best shot.

It opened my eyes to what it took to breed properly.

Sidestepping the issue of whether OP should breed her dog or not (and I'd say not unless she gets health tests done, and also not at the moment as the puppy market isn't exactly busy)....

If people are not to breed dogs that have proven to be good pets, how to we propose that pet dogs should best be bred? The show ring buggers many breeds up, we've seen that time and again, and for too many show breeders temperament isn't a top priority. For some it is, but far too many focus on winning, and you end up with nervy dogs and/or exaggerated conformation. Working line dogs are not what many people want, need or can handle: there are regularly threads on here started by OPs with out of control field-line spaniels. These dogs need an outlet, and that is often something that a busy family has neither the time nor the know-how to provide. Puppy farms are shit. So what do we do instead?

Times change….one of my best friends bred jack Russells, she had two bitches who were ‘pets’ , they lived with the Italian Greyhound around the Aga. She bred the bitches , she had had their great grandmother ( from her sister) .

Whenever she had a litter ( probably one a year, sometimes two) an orderly queue formed for them. They were in every racing stable in England, keeping an eye on the rats and the horses.

Another friend had a Westie breeding bitch , lived as a pet. When the puppies were able to stagger around, she used to invite people round to play with them so they got used to being friends with people. Most of them ( the dogs) lived locally, you would meet them being walked.

I got my Siamese from a breeder whose cats lived in their house with the family. Times change…..

Good pets can be bred but they also need to be healthy and pretty true to breed type in order to maintain the original roles dogs were bred for.

Any pet being bred certainly needs to be health tested and conformationally sound (and moderate), but the vast majority of pedigree dogs are not of working type. Show spaniels have far too much coat; that Clumber which won at Crufts would be a disaster in the field.

Pet dogs don't need to be of working type. It's not fair on most working-line dogs to confine them to standard pet lives. It's also not fair on most pet owners to expect them to deal with, for example, the off-the-scale prey drive that some gundog breeds possess.

Essentially, being a pet is the job that most dogs now do. How to we get dogs that are a good fit for that?

Essentially, being a pet is the job that most dogs now do. How to we get dogs that are a good fit for that?

There are lots of breeders who breed specifically for pet homes.

Backyard amateurs have no business breeding dogs.

Unless you are deeply knowledgeable and you plan to make breeding to a very high standard your profession and livelihood, just don't.

Well you've got a resounding, considered and expert response. So I won't add to it.

Just don't do it. On every possible level don't do it.

You don't know what you are doing and it's your dogs and the puppies lives you are playing with.

Don't do it. Please.

I am not one of the people who will be here to tell you that all breeders are evil, but I will tell you that breeding dogs is hard work, expensive and not always the fairytale you might imagine. That said, I firmly believe that we need good breeders producing healthy litters, and everyone has to start somewhere.

To start with (beyond learning that Labrador Retrievers are yellow, not golden, as PP said), you need to get xrays and official KC/BVA hip and elbow scores done and DNA testing in place for the eye conditions that the breed is prone to. This is not 'just for show people', in case you think it is - it's for any responsible breeder who wants to sell healthy pets too.

Bear in mind that as well as being expensive, getting results from all these tests takes time, so you need to plan well ahead. Obviously, if any of the results are unacceptable, that should be a dead end to the whole process.

Once those are done on your bitch, you need to find a stud dog with all these health tests in place, again with good results, and approach his owner to find out whether they would accept your bitch. If your bitch is not a good example of the breed, they may say 'thanks, but no thanks'.

If all goes well and you have a litter due, then brace yourself for weeks of hard work and worry, with lots of joy scattered amongst it. You will be needing to sleep with your bitch when puppies are nearly due, through to when they are more mobile and can be left without supervision - probably three weeks.

Then you can go back to your own bed, and you'll need your sleep because when they are up and about is when the work really starts LOL. Constant cleaning, washing, feeding, picking up poo, rinse and repeat.

Vetting prospective new owners and meeting them before you agree to sell them a puppy is also a big old hassle, but can lead to life-long friendships. Don't underestimate how what you thought were committed new owners suddenly change their minds too, and if you have a large litter believe me, at 4 months if you are left with several puppies you'll be tearing your hair out. There are a lot of Labradors available for people to buy, and many people won't buy any of them when it comes to the crunch.

Further to this, of course, is that you can end up with huge vet bills for eclampsia, c-sections, puppy issues - or at worst case a dead bitch. Like it or not, this is the reality of any animal reproducing, and it all needs very serious thought. It really is easier just to buy a quality puppy if you want another, unless you are very committed.

I agree with a lot of the comments above.
Ask yourself WHY you want to breed from your dog - her being lovely isnt really a good enough reason and if you do it she may not be so lovely anymore. My good friend is a vet and she was telling me that a client had to rehome his "lovely" dog after she ate her puppies and he could never look at her the same. There is a risk of physical and emotional harm to your Bitch from breeding and lets face it if everyone who had a lovely dog bred from it we wouldn't be able to move for puppies
Enjoy your dog OP but dont breed from her

There are plenty of good, well regarded, experienced breeders that breed for pet temperament. And yes, being a pet is the job that most dogs do now. And that is because anyone can breed any dog now and anyone can buy any dog now - if they've got the readies. And that is exactly what should be controlled and legislated for.

Some breeds, no matter how well bred, should never, ever be sold as a pet.

I cannot tell you how many Anatolian Sheepdogs I've seen in rescue lately. Obviously a fashion - as I knew there would be after all the Bull breed controversy - to move to another large breed, potentially intimidating dog. They're all very young too, so people finding out pretty quickly that they've made a massive error. They shouldn't be up for rehoming either imo.
(Unless you're an actual shepherd protecting your flock from bears and wolves obvs......)

Please just give her the best possible life and start that by having her spayed. Please don’t breed her.

Nothing wrong with breeding for pet homes but they need the same tests and considerations as dogs bred for working or show homes. Most pet breeders just stick dog and bitch together and job done. The dogs may be lovely pets but if pups have health conditions their lives are going to be challenging.

As a trainer I know MANY working types who wouldn’t be capable of it but make wonderful pets. If you are looking for more laud back versions of the breed then those are the ones you seek out as most good breeders do. My own dog is a hard wired working type but bred more towards the pet and training line so temperaments were chosen carefully for that. My dog is the product of a repeat mating due to the outcome being the desired one.

I cannot tell you how many Anatolian Sheepdogs I've seen in rescue lately.

There's been a huge increase in "livestock guardians" in general lately hasn't there? I think a lot of them come from dodgy overseas rescues who just want rid of them, to be honest. It's scary that there are dogs like that being handed over to families without a care in the world.

Super, more puppies bred by someone who doesn’t have the first idea. Meanwhile rescue centres are fit to burst with unwanted litters and unwanted adult dogs. Great idea OP 🙄