Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

If no medical issue do we PTS?

82 replies

Wallmirror · 12/01/2024 12:16

We really are at a loss with our older dog. She was a rescue who we adopted at 18 months so she is nearly 5.5 years old now. No reported aggression from those who gave her up and none observed while she was in kennels. They even advised she could live with older children). She has always been very highly strung due to her breed mix (husky cross). She can be aloof at times but does sometimes seek out contact, for example, if the mood takes her she will come up and snuggle next to one of us while watching tv. She is the sort of dog where it’s always very clear whether she is is a good mood or whether anxious/fearful.

In recent years there have been two bite incidents. Both involved altercations with another (female) dog where the dog walker got in the middle of it. Given the nature of these incidents we were not unduly concerned and neither was the dog walker who knew her well. We saw a behaviourist following this who said from what they assessed that she didn’t seem to be an aggressive dog and she could be managed given the nature of what happened. We have no children and our second younger dog is male - they get on well and apart from playing together, which is very balanced, he generally leaves her be (usually glued to us). They have existed happily together for the last 3 years.

In the last 6 months she has become increasingly intolerant of being handled when needed, for example to go in the bath/be brushed and has air snapped at us on occasion. Previously this has never been an issue and we would placate her with treats while the other washed her, it’s now impossible.

In the last 6 weeks or so we have noticed that she has become very intolerant/grumpy in the evenings, snapping at my husband if he needs to step over her which has never been a problem as we would verbally announce ourselves (she has great form for lying in the middle of walkways in the house) or if accidentally nudged (she was curled up at our feet in bed and reacted when one of us moved). She has always been the sort of dog to take herself off for a nap and we have noticed when coming into our room (she sometimes naps on our bed) she seems frozen/dazed when we switch the light on and it’s very clear from her body language not to approach. Last week my husband went up to our room, switched the light on, went back out to use the loo, went back in and sat at the foot of the bed. She rolled over to him on her back, he rubbed her tummy as she was being wiggly and seemed like she usually is when she’s being playful and wants a tummy rub (as opposed to lifting her paw on her back - we know this from her is a polite leave me alone), she rolled back on her front, he lay down, no actual contact and she lost it, reacted and bit him breaking the skin.

He is devastated but insists he wasn’t doing anything which we know would have provoked her, as I said we know her behaviour pretty inside out at this point.

We know vet is first port of call for a full check up, but our worry is if there is no obvious medical cause what the next steps are. Ever since the first bite incident, even though it seemed to have an explanation at the time I’ve been on eggshells and constantly worry about her and if I’m honest, in my gut, I’ve since then wondered if there’s something wrong. This is even more stark a contrast with other dog who I never worry about. Other than the aggression/intolerance and the ‘dazed’ evening episodes we haven’t observed any other physical concerns although we are keeping an eye and have removed access to our room so we can watch her. We did wonder if she was now resource guarding the room although she has never displayed any resource guarding previously. Even booking the vet is proving to be heart wrenching as we both worry it’s the beginning of the end even though we owe it to her to get her properly checked out.

Just wondered if anyone had experienced anything similar or had any advice.

OP posts:
Messyhair321 · 14/01/2024 21:03

catelynjane · 12/01/2024 15:00

It sounds like your dog is in pain. I would want a full check up including bloods, and possibly x-rays to check for dysplasia and other joint issues.

Make sure they check ears, paws, nails and eyes too.

This.
And your dog isn't "older" she's quite young.
I think she is in pain & she's telling you in the only way she knows how. I'd guess arthritis. Try you move, gave older dog (was 15 when PTS) this & I'm sure it gave him several extra years.

Wallmirror · 15/01/2024 08:51

Day 3 of painkillers now, she definitely seemed brighter after having them yesterday morning but as the day went on they wore off and she was very obviously in pain. Hoping she perks up a bit more as the week goes on.

And you’re totally right, she isn’t an old dog yet so it feels hard and she’s been fit and well all this time and we’ve been super careful with her weight, knowing she has the appetite of a lab!

OP posts:
Wallmirror · 16/01/2024 11:02

Day 4 now. Other than perking up for a few hours after the pain killers, she is shut down for much of the day. Yesterday was particularly upsetting. She does this thing where she puts her head on our knee and this means she wants her head or ears rubbed. She will often paw at us if we stop and she wants more. She’s always done this. Yesterday I went to slowly stroke her forehead and she snapped at me. It’s absolutely heartbreaking when she is trying to interact with us. We’re now carefully watching her with other dog as she is still at times attempting to play but of course they usually wrestle which is not what she should be doing. I think after tomorrow we need to push for sedation and a full check as well as seeing if stronger medication is appropriate or if she can be given something supplemental if she is anxious. I’m worried we reach a stage of not being able to put a lead on her if she can’t accept the lightest of touch.

If anyone has any words of wisdom on what else we can be doing I’d be very grateful. I know we need a diagnosis ultimately but this is so stressful.

OP posts:
MontyDonsBlueScarf · 16/01/2024 11:32

If your vet can't identify anything specifically wrong, I'd recommend an online consultation with Vince the Vet https://www.vincethevet.co.uk/solutions. Much to my surprise, his supplements work wonders for my arthritic 12 year old who was previously in great discomfort even on heavy duty painkillers.

CONSULTATIONS / SPECIAL DIETS

Need:a second opinion?a special diet? (for liver and gall bladder issues; digestive disturbances; musculoskeletal / joint problems; cancer and other conditions)advice on how to help a health issue using a natural approach?To book an online consultation...

https://www.vincethevet.co.uk/solutions

Devilshands · 16/01/2024 11:45

I assume that before she prescribed painkillers the vet tried to move her joints/watched her walk/inspected her abdomen etc? All the obvious things a vet should do...

I'd push for full bloods and an x-ray immediately. It will be expensive though.

Edit: Just because a vet has said 'give it a week' you don't need to. You can take her to an emergency vet or an OOH vet who will run those tests happily. You need to take charge here and not be guided by a vet when the proscribed medication clearly is not working.

You need to remember that YOU are your dogs advocate. I've often found vets to be like doctors: you need to be forceful and assertive. Make it clear you want x-rays and bloods. You are not willing to wait because your dog is still in pain/not herself. Vets only see a dog for 5-10 minutes and very often a dog does not exhibit the same symptons/behaviour they do at home because a vets practice is overstimulating. I'd ring up today and ask for an urgent appointment today or tomorrow for both things.

Let us know what happens! Hope your girl feels better soon

getofftheplane · 16/01/2024 11:48

Did you do a urine test?

Wallmirror · 16/01/2024 11:51

The vet did feel her tummy, listen to her heart, felt her all over. She was hissing, growling and snapped but we had muzzled her as a precaution something we’ve never needed previously. He wasn’t sure how much of her reaction was actual pain on being touched, or in anticipation.

She sees the same vet when she gets her vaccines and he noted that had never been necessary, she’s usually super compliant if a little stressed. She will definitely need to be sedated for anything else, if only to minimise the stress on her and to allow the vet to be super thorough.

OP posts:
Wallmirror · 16/01/2024 11:52

No just physical checks and taking history. She hasn’t had any issues with eating (although not mooching as she normally would), poos all fine and urinating as normal.

OP posts:
Hotgoose · 16/01/2024 11:59

I think wait and see what the vet says re full check up. Watch the vet closely so you can be satisfied they really have checked everything thoroughly and always worth a second opinion.

brainworms · 16/01/2024 12:14

My old bulldog went from being a wiggly lovebug to being snappy and tired a lot. He was only six.

His body was riddled with cancer which affected his mood and tolerance for being touched. Please don't leave this, ask for a full body MRI.

survivingunderarock · 16/01/2024 13:13

You need to take her back now and tell them you need more tests. They won’t disagree as it sounds to be escalating. It does sound extreme for joint pain. More likely to be internal pain and discomfort and quite possibly serious. Poor pup and you.

Thingamebobwotsit · 17/01/2024 09:43

From bitter experience if it was joint pain the pain relief should have improved the response. It usual for vets to try this as first port of call. You need to go back asap.

Wallmirror · 22/01/2024 17:47

She’s booked in for Weds now. No pain killers yesterday and she gave other dog a pretty ferocious telling off for nudging her at the side of her head. We’ve stopped handling her completely other than to get her lead on so tricky to tell how she is. She was a bit giddy on her walks today but with the cold and wind I don’t know whether that’s a distraction and she’s just happy to be out and about. She didn’t get up this morning when I filled up the dog bowls at breakfast which is unusual.

Plan is to partially sedate her so she’s still awake and examine her to see if they can pinpoint a particular area of pain and take it from there in terms of where to X-ray etc and they’ll go on to do whatever else is needed that day.

It’s so confusing, when she was giddy on her walk I honestly though she’s winding us up but I know dogs can hide pain well.

OP posts:
catelynjane · 22/01/2024 17:50

Bless her, she really doesn't sound happy. I hope you get to the bottom of it Flowers

suggestionsplease1 · 22/01/2024 18:08

What training do you do with her OP? I'm just thinking of possibilities if it is not a physical health condition but a growing sense of status in the household that makes her feel entitled to regulate your approaches to her and your handling of her.

I know dominance theory is widely panned and I would certainly never advocate any confrontational responses to her, but I do believe that good training can help reassert an owner's control over dogs that have a growing sense of their position in the household.

So you've noticed this happening on the bed...well I wouldn't let her on beds or sofas (not least because if it something like arthritis then jumping off will be painful anyway).

You are no doubt reacting nervously around her and she will sense that and it will feed into her responses to you.

I would work on positive reward based training for following commands of sit, stay, come etc and for handling her...so treats that she likes when you stroke her, brush her, bathe her.

These are things that can be done gently, in a low stress fashion (don't push anything) and alongside medical investigations if there is indeed a physical cause.

Wallmirror · 22/01/2024 18:48

She’s pretty good with commands despite her husky personality and is excellent at all the basics. We ask her to sit at the back door before going out, she does a trick or something before food/treats and when we’ve handled her in the past, say to remove a tick which has happened a fair bit in the oat we’ve had no issue and have used treats/verbal praise when doing so. Her tricks include things like bow, sit pretty, spin etc, nothing too advanced but she’s always seemed to like it. We certainly don’t pander to her, she can be a vocal husky type at times but we don’t entertain it. If she’s having a husky strop we ask her to go to her bed and she will go and then lots of verbal praise.

She is currently banned from our bed and room. Although the sofa is a favourite spot I’ve noticed she is avoiding it and seeking out our arm chair which is pretty low to the ground in comparison.

She does still keep approaching us in a goofy way at times and will come and sit with her back to us leaning against our legs which I thought in dog world was a good sign?

OP posts:
IngGenius · 22/01/2024 19:01

Do push for bloods and urine test

I disagree with everything suggestionsplease1 says.

This is not a training issue OP.

suggestionsplease1 · 22/01/2024 19:12

IngGenius · 22/01/2024 19:01

Do push for bloods and urine test

I disagree with everything suggestionsplease1 says.

This is not a training issue OP.

O that's disappointing that you take issue with a positive rewards based training approach, this is widely recommended and gets very good results. And that you think it is a good idea for a dog that a vet suspects may have arthritis to be jumping off sofas and beds.

It sounds like the OP is already making good use of these practices and hopefully medical explorations can shed light on any underlying medical issues.

IngGenius · 22/01/2024 19:24

suggestionsplease1 · 22/01/2024 19:12

O that's disappointing that you take issue with a positive rewards based training approach, this is widely recommended and gets very good results. And that you think it is a good idea for a dog that a vet suspects may have arthritis to be jumping off sofas and beds.

It sounds like the OP is already making good use of these practices and hopefully medical explorations can shed light on any underlying medical issues.

It is not a training issue. Reward based training will not help a dog with behavioural issue. Training will not change a dogs emotional response

Bet money it is a physical issue.

It could be a behavioural issue but not a training issue.

suggestionsplease1 · 22/01/2024 19:40

IngGenius · 22/01/2024 19:24

It is not a training issue. Reward based training will not help a dog with behavioural issue. Training will not change a dogs emotional response

Bet money it is a physical issue.

It could be a behavioural issue but not a training issue.

It was an avenue worth exploring as OP had not previously discussed training she had done in the thread and seemed to be looking to explore ideas for possible ways forward.

I disagree that rewards based training will not help with behavioural responses, of course it can.

Rewards based training can desensitize dogs to handling they are initially uncomfortable with but need to get on board with for their own comfort and well-being - eg grooming and vet handling.

Their emotional response changes from fear to positive anticipation they will get a treat they like. The behavioural response changes from stiff body, high alert, whale eyes, lips drawn, low growl to relaxed, loose wiggles and tolerance for being handled.

More generally positive rewards-based training helps establish good rapport with dogs and good natured authority over them, and makes moments of confrontation over eg. resource guarding less likely, and less severe because of the general good relationship that exists and is frequently reinforced.

Anyway it sounds like OP has already got good training established with her dog and is progressing to the next level of investigation with her vet.

IngGenius · 22/01/2024 19:48

Desensitisation is not training though is it..... It is changing the emotional response to a trigger.

"Good natured authority?" I have never needed authority is using positive training methods.

It may be the words that you use that are confusing.

I am 100% behind positive reward based training but words like authority, control and the dogs growing sense of priority in the family are not words that are used or needed in a positive based training scenario.

Watercolourpapier · 22/01/2024 20:27

A dog showing their belly isn't always a sign that they want a belly rub. Sometimes it's a sign of fear, insecurity, or anxiety. I think you and your husband are right to go hands off for now unless you're sure she wants contact. Hopefully the vet can find something that's treatable. If it is arthritis i had good results in the past with a monthly injection of solensia in my old cat. It's called librela for dogs.

Highwaypatrol · 22/01/2024 20:35

Good luck for Wednesday

carerneedshelp · 22/01/2024 20:36

She is 100% in pain!
Even if the vet says otherwise she is!!!

What is she fed on? How are her bowels? If you don't find another obvious cause I would look at tummy issues. Any signs of reflux?

Wallmirror · 22/01/2024 21:14

No tummy issues whatsoever. Toileting all normal. She gets europa dried food, has been on that for years and we’ve never had any soft poos or upset tummies. We feed her fresh fruit (small amounts of things like banana, melon, apple) and veg for snacks - sweet potato filled kongs, carrot sticks, big fan of cucumber and for treats a mix of denzel training treats, occasional babybel light chopped into small pieces for something super high value. Because we know she’d be prone to pile on the weight we’ve always been very careful not to go crazy with treats.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread