Page 5 | What are dogs myths that just will not die?

IngGenius · 2023-12-12T19:36:54+00:00

What dog myths are you told that are a load of rubbish: Can not teach an old dog new tricks Picking up a dog when it is frightened makes it more anxious My dog peed on the floor to annoy me Small dog syndrome My dog looked quilty - he knew he had done wrong

Sholkedabemus · 13/12/2023 08:38

My kids grew up with our golden. She was the soppiest dog you could ever meet. She was always up for playing, cuddles, counsellor, walks and just being an all round wonderful dog. To be fair, my experience is that most goldens are like this.

margotrose · 13/12/2023 08:49

PrincessHoneysuckle · 13/12/2023 07:58

As on owner of Chihuahuas I can confirm there is definitely such a thing as small dog syndrome!
They are aware of their size so become defensive to protect themselves.

Nope. Your dog behaves like that because you allow it.

margotrose · 13/12/2023 08:55

BoomBoom70 · 13/12/2023 04:15

Dog should wear a coat to go outside. lol

Some dogs do need coats, though.

Greyhounds and whippets have very thin skin and practically no body fat - if they're going to go out in a British winter then they need some protection. The same applies to breeds like chihuahuas, or old dogs, or puppies.

My beagle wears a coat because while he was bred hunt for hours, that's not what he actually does and as a result he gets cold and shivers/shakes.

LolaSmiles · 13/12/2023 09:00

Generally little dogs get away with much more as they are little and people laugh and tolerate the behaviour as the owner "hides behind the small dog myth"

The owners of big dogs do not get such tolerance! for the same behaviour
I regularly say this!
If my bigger dogs behaved the way some people allow their smaller dogs to behave (yapping, barking, pestering, not settling in pubs and cafes, running up to children, jumping up legs) people would rightly be annoyed.
For some reason lots is dismissed as "aww isn't it cute, small dog syndrome".

Definitelyrandom · 13/12/2023 09:06

You can’t teach greyhounds recall and they should only be let off lead in totally flat, enclosed spaces where you walk them round the perimeter first on lead.

DomesticatedHippie · 13/12/2023 09:09

Coats are also recommended on walks for elderly/arthritic dogs in winter to minimise joint pain.

My single coated toy breed doesn’t wear a coat in the house, as we have central heating and he’s either charging around playing, buried under a pile of blankets or curled up on me. He does for walks in winter if it’s both cold and wet or sub-zero temperatures. He doesn’t wear one in the garden either, unless it’s seriously sub zero or deep snow, mainly because he does the 100 mile an hour toilet dash when it’s cold or wet anyway. He has a thin, single coat and very low body fat, similar to an Italian Greyhound.

Riverlee · 13/12/2023 09:36

That’s a good point about small dogs behaviour being tolerated. It’s always the small dogs that growl at my lab with the owner pulling them away. If my lab that, he’d put down or muzzled straight away.

We found out about wagging tails when our dog turned one. It was a revelation. We can now ‘read’ our dogs behaviour alot better and he’s happier as a result.

My dog sometimes growls when he wants to play. Also, he likes to hold your hand in his mouth. He doesn’t bite if, just gently holds it - it seems to comfort him.

EdithStourton · 13/12/2023 09:38

There are two that really bug me:
Variants on this:
'Dr. David Mech, the wolf expert and senior scientist who was largely responsible for the original study promoting "pack theory" now explains that there are pronounced behavioral differences between captive wolves like those used in the study and wolves in the wild...In a natural pack, harmony is created because deference behaviors are offered freely by the younger wolves rather than being forced onto them by their parents. '
(from Victoria Stillwell's website)
Firstly, the original study (on captive wolves) wasn't by David Mech (it was Rudolf Schenkel, 1947). Secondly, David Mech 100% continues to state that dominance is a key element in how wolf packs operate: 'They [the parents] dominate the offspring, they are dominant to the offspring. My only concern was calling them alpha which implies that they fought to get their position.' (Training Without Conflict podcast 33, 16:15ff).
Secondly, not all wolf packs follow the basic model of parents and offspring. Research in Yellowstone National Park has shown that some packs contain two or three breeding females, and that dominance contests within the pack can end in the death of one of the parties (see YNP wolf report, 2000 - alpha female killed by pack mates). Sometimes a lead female will mate with not only the lead male, but with another male as well (YNP wolf report, 2005). Subordinate females might mate outside the pack - appearing to be on their way to forming a new pack - but return to their natal pack to den (YNP wolf report, 2003). Wolf behaviour is extremely complex and flexible.

Sure, wolves are not dogs, but to appeal to wolf behaviour to 'debunk' hierarchical behaviour in dogs is ridiculous. And plenty of scientists and ethologists with expertise in canine behaviour 100% believe that dogs use dominance on each other (e.g. James Serpell, Roger Abrantes). To acknowledge all of that is to say nothing about how people ought to train their dogs, especially as much of dominance is behaviour is carried out not via any sort of overt aggression, but via subtle forms of posturing.

The second one is variants on this:
'Today’s domestic dog is about as genetically similar to the wolf as humans are to chimpanzees.' (Victoria Stillwell again, but the APDT comes out with something almost identical.)
This is legit bullshit. Dogs and wolves split maybe 50,000 years ago (possibly as long ago as 100,000). Sounds a long time, right? But humans and chimps split 6.5million years ago. Humans and chimps cannot interbreed, whereas hybridisation between wolves and dogs continues to the present day (and not always with human intervention, either), and produces fertile offspring. The black coat seen in some wolves came from hybridisation with dogs. Dogs and wolves share >99% of their genome; humans and chimps share 96-97%. Humans and chimps are seen as distinct species, whereas the dog is classified by mammalogists as a subspecies of the wolf. Admittedly its evolution away from the wolf template has been sped up by selective breeding, but still, dogs are much, much closer to wolves than humans are to chimps.

Again, this says nothing about how a dog should be trained. But it doesn't help anybody's argument to underpin it with these claims when they are manifestly not true.

noooooooo · 13/12/2023 09:44

These are funny and sad and informative. Our dog definitely does look guilty though, if she comes tippytapping into the room with her ears tucked back like she’s wearing an Alice band I know something’s gone awry😂

commonground · 13/12/2023 09:47

Whippets are the best dogs ever....(oh no, soz, that is not a myth, that is actually....a truth! 😄)

vjg13 · 13/12/2023 09:48

"Greyhounds need 2 20 mins walk a day."
Nope, that low level of excercise is doing them a disservice in my experience of having 2 greyhounds.

GrouchyKiwi · 13/12/2023 09:48

Re stubborn dogs: Newfies have a rep for being stubborn, especially when it comes to staying outside in the snow, but it's definitely a case of weighing up cost-benefit for GrouchyDog. (Warning: anthropomorphising ahead) I can almost see her thinking "Nah, I like it here, you're going to have to give me something better". She'll usually come in if I use the Stern Voice, though, just like with children.

I'm going to have to look up tails; I've clearly missed a lot there.

meatbaseddessert · 13/12/2023 10:11

Little off lead dogs with no recall can do no wrong.
As they go barking and shrieking into the face of a calm, on lead, well trained bigger dog who then get slightly irritated to be faced with 'AAGGGHHHH! Get your dog away from little fluffykins!!'
Errr try calling him away from mine then (they never can)

Original poster

IngGenius · 13/12/2023 10:53

noooooooo · 13/12/2023 09:44

These are funny and sad and informative. Our dog definitely does look guilty though, if she comes tippytapping into the room with her ears tucked back like she’s wearing an Alice band I know something’s gone awry😂

Your dog is giving appeasement signals. I'll try and find the study but dogs read human body language better than the average human.

She will be aware that either your body language is threatening or that her previous behaviour has made you mad so she shows appeasement signals to change your behaviour. No she is not feeling guilty just trying to change your mood

OP posts:

Original poster

IngGenius · 13/12/2023 10:55

EdithStourton · 13/12/2023 09:38

There are two that really bug me:
Variants on this:
'Dr. David Mech, the wolf expert and senior scientist who was largely responsible for the original study promoting "pack theory" now explains that there are pronounced behavioral differences between captive wolves like those used in the study and wolves in the wild...In a natural pack, harmony is created because deference behaviors are offered freely by the younger wolves rather than being forced onto them by their parents. '
(from Victoria Stillwell's website)
Firstly, the original study (on captive wolves) wasn't by David Mech (it was Rudolf Schenkel, 1947). Secondly, David Mech 100% continues to state that dominance is a key element in how wolf packs operate: 'They [the parents] dominate the offspring, they are dominant to the offspring. My only concern was calling them alpha which implies that they fought to get their position.' (Training Without Conflict podcast 33, 16:15ff).
Secondly, not all wolf packs follow the basic model of parents and offspring. Research in Yellowstone National Park has shown that some packs contain two or three breeding females, and that dominance contests within the pack can end in the death of one of the parties (see YNP wolf report, 2000 - alpha female killed by pack mates). Sometimes a lead female will mate with not only the lead male, but with another male as well (YNP wolf report, 2005). Subordinate females might mate outside the pack - appearing to be on their way to forming a new pack - but return to their natal pack to den (YNP wolf report, 2003). Wolf behaviour is extremely complex and flexible.

Sure, wolves are not dogs, but to appeal to wolf behaviour to 'debunk' hierarchical behaviour in dogs is ridiculous. And plenty of scientists and ethologists with expertise in canine behaviour 100% believe that dogs use dominance on each other (e.g. James Serpell, Roger Abrantes). To acknowledge all of that is to say nothing about how people ought to train their dogs, especially as much of dominance is behaviour is carried out not via any sort of overt aggression, but via subtle forms of posturing.

The second one is variants on this:
'Today’s domestic dog is about as genetically similar to the wolf as humans are to chimpanzees.' (Victoria Stillwell again, but the APDT comes out with something almost identical.)
This is legit bullshit. Dogs and wolves split maybe 50,000 years ago (possibly as long ago as 100,000). Sounds a long time, right? But humans and chimps split 6.5million years ago. Humans and chimps cannot interbreed, whereas hybridisation between wolves and dogs continues to the present day (and not always with human intervention, either), and produces fertile offspring. The black coat seen in some wolves came from hybridisation with dogs. Dogs and wolves share >99% of their genome; humans and chimps share 96-97%. Humans and chimps are seen as distinct species, whereas the dog is classified by mammalogists as a subspecies of the wolf. Admittedly its evolution away from the wolf template has been sped up by selective breeding, but still, dogs are much, much closer to wolves than humans are to chimps.

Again, this says nothing about how a dog should be trained. But it doesn't help anybody's argument to underpin it with these claims when they are manifestly not true.

Hey best to study the dogs then ......... and forget the wolves

OP posts:

HappiestSleeping · 13/12/2023 10:59

bassetsarebest · 13/12/2023 06:47

I’ve always found it’s new owners who convince themselves it’s better. I’ve never been convinced.

Much better to spend that money on good insurance!

Show quote history

Quite. My rescue came having been fed on a raw diet. One of my family has immune issues, so I was concerned about having raw food due to the risk of cross contamination. I looked for weeks for anything to back up the Internet fad claims, but found nothing apart from:-

Scientific evidence that occurrences of e.coli, campylobacter, and several other nasties were significantly higher when animals were fed on raw food.

Pet food in the UK is regulated so as long as it comes from a manufacturer of repute, and is labelled as a complete food, it must have all the nutrients etc that a dog requires.

Anecdotally, in my case there was no difference in stool quantity / quality / consistency or aroma having moved from wet raw to dry kibble. If anything he is more energetic. I'm able to scatter feed in the garden which exercises his nose, and control his portion sizes more easily enabling him not to get overweight.

Pic added for tax.

What are dogs myths that just will not die?

TorroFerney · 13/12/2023 11:16

LolaSmiles · 12/12/2023 20:07

If you aren't middle aged with no children/adult children, living in a detached house with a big garden on a quiet street, with no main roads near by, and if you don't have access to varied walking terrain or the ability to do 2 x 10 mile walks a day, then you're not cut out for being a dog owner.
Creative license has been applied there but those sort of owner posts have me rolling my eyes.

That standing in the park ineffectively having a restorative conversation with Fido is an effective form of training. That's naughty Fido fluffykins. We don't try to take ice cream from the little boy. Do we?

Edited

Yes or my mums , “if you don’t stop jumping up at (me) I’ll put you in the car” yep that will do it mother look at him immediately stopping jumping up at me - oh wait….

nottaotter · 13/12/2023 11:46

@Countrylife2002 greyhounds do smile! When they are particularly pleased to see someone they do the teeth showing thing, same as some lurchers.

Countrylife2002 · 13/12/2023 13:26

@nottaotter he does a closed mouth smile esp when he sees dd, I think he’s learnt it from us . Can literally see the mouth turning up as you approach and it’s quite new

Countrylife2002 · 13/12/2023 13:27

vjg13 · 13/12/2023 09:48

"Greyhounds need 2 20 mins walk a day."
Nope, that low level of excercise is doing them a disservice in my experience of having 2 greyhounds.

Mine isn’t keen on even as much as 1x15. Usually 1x10 is quite enough thank you.

they’re all different

OrlandointheWilderness · 13/12/2023 13:33

FinallyFinalGirl · 12/12/2023 21:00

Springer spaniels always are good with children and mellow as a warm September evening in an orchard.

Springer dogs and especially bitches can be so utterly loyal to one person they want to climb into her skin and keep everyone else at bay, so I WISH people would stop encouraging their little children to come to pet mine when we are walking because she's a cute little spaniel so therefore 'harmless'.

😂
My brother always said my springer would climb inside me and wear me like a skin suit if he could!! 😂

Though to be fair he is soft as anything.
I must admit I don't play tug games with the gundogs, they are welcome to play together though. And they certainly don't like hard training, and need far more mental stimulation than physical.

OrlandointheWilderness · 13/12/2023 13:37

FinallyFinalGirl · 12/12/2023 22:42

@margotrose oh my goodness! Are you ok?

Golden Retrievers are my nightmare. Idiots buy them for stupid money thinking they are these amazing friends in dog form.

They're called Retrievers for a reason, people. They are bred to be predators.

Ah I'm afraid I have to quibble at this one... retrievers aren't bred to be predators, they are bred to retrieve!! Our retrievers (labs) will gently bring us a live bird etc so carefully it isn't even damp if asked too. Not sure many family pets would do the same without nailing it.

OrlandointheWilderness · 13/12/2023 13:40

margotrose · 13/12/2023 06:56

There's no such thing as stubborn in dogs - it's just that some breeds (mainly terriers and hounds) were bred to work independently and not alongside humans.

So, breeds like Labradors, spaniels and retrievers were bred to cooperate with people and to work alongside them, whereas beagles, bassets and Jack Russell's were all bred to go off by themselves and do their jobs independently - so they're not designed to be motivated by humans in the same way and therefore they'll often only do things if there's a benefit to them (like food), otherwise they don't see the point.

Definitely agree with this! The difference between watching a pack of foxhounds work and bassets is remarkable. Foxhounds are generally a biddable animal, bassets will do what they think they know to be right. Both get the job done but very very interesting to see the differences.

Sholkedabemus · 13/12/2023 13:40

Our golden loved bringing gifts, especially socks and pants. She loved her soft toys and was never happier than when she had a teddy in her mouth. None of her toys were ever chewed.

Leonberger · 13/12/2023 13:44

Mines probably that all giant breeds are. ‘Gentle giants’

Generally yes…but in my experience they are expected to put up with a lot from the general public/other badly behaved dogs because people don’t think they will react in the same way as other breeds and it can cause problems.