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Original poster

Just saw an advert for amazing sounding pups but mum won't be there - it's a red flag isn't it

103 replies

DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 21:21

As title. Gutted, was making arrangements to view the litter and on checking that mum will be there was told no, only dad as mum was getting upset with the pups so has gone to stay with a friend. Pups are 12 weeks so not tiny but still, it's a red flag is it not?

OP posts:
Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 11/08/2023 10:32

@Lastqueenofscotland2 thank you. I'm leaning towards not. Have contacted a trainer for advice also but feeling that it may be better to wait.

OP posts:
Idratherbepaddleboarding · 11/08/2023 10:46

Labradors are ridiculously easy to toilet train so “training” him to use puppy pads makes no sense and hints at laziness of the breeder. They are also easy to teach recall to at 8 weeks because they naturally want to be near you, so he’s missed that window. The mother shouldn’t be jumping up at you either so they obviously haven’t bothered to train her well.

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 11/08/2023 11:03

I completely get that when you’re finally in a place for your first dog it is super exciting and tempting to just get the first one that fits and isn’t the other side of the country. But you’re going to have that dog for around 15 years, you are going to spend thousands looking after it for 15 years and if you go for the unsocialised older puppy, potentially dealing with behavioural issues caused by that for 15 years.

Honesty even if it means driving three hours or waiting 18 months for the right breeder and the right puppy I 100% would

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 11/08/2023 12:22

@Idratherbepaddleboarding these are my thoughts too.

I have spoken to the trainer and she suggested a second visit to see how he is outside (we viewed him in the living room as they were waiting for delivery of a washing machine and the old one was in the entrance to the kitchen). Like many of you the trainer was surprised/confused that a pup of that age was still available but said depending on how he was on second viewing/outside whe would not rule him out completely.

OP posts:
User63847484848 · 11/08/2023 12:28

Are there any people that offer a puppy matching/intermediary/advice service - if not there should be!

Swimbius · 11/08/2023 12:36

Puppies are hard work, especially for first time dog owners. You want to stack the odds in your favour as much as possible and a 16 week old unsocialised pup is not the way to do that. I'm not sure why you're so desperate to try and overlook these issues especially as you say you're a novice owner.

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 11/08/2023 13:12

Cynically I imagine the trainer would encourage you to go for that dog… you’ll likely need a lot of their help…

Clymene · 11/08/2023 13:13

Swimbius · 11/08/2023 12:36

Puppies are hard work, especially for first time dog owners. You want to stack the odds in your favour as much as possible and a 16 week old unsocialised pup is not the way to do that. I'm not sure why you're so desperate to try and overlook these issues especially as you say you're a novice owner.

100% this.

Don't do it. The right dog is worth a wait (and a drive). I would t touch this one with a barge pole.

clpsmum · 11/08/2023 13:37

Ask if you can visit the friend and view the mum

Newuser75 · 11/08/2023 15:10

Swimbius · 11/08/2023 12:36

Puppies are hard work, especially for first time dog owners. You want to stack the odds in your favour as much as possible and a 16 week old unsocialised pup is not the way to do that. I'm not sure why you're so desperate to try and overlook these issues especially as you say you're a novice owner.

Too right!!

Wexone · 11/08/2023 15:31

Rescues do. they advise on what dogs re good with kids or etc. what lifestyle they need and also do alot or work socialising them and getting them used to the world

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 11/08/2023 19:18

Just to update- have told breeder of 16 week old pup that we're not going ahead and have had an abusive message in reply.

Have registered on champ dogs and messaged a couple of breeders today.

Thank you all for your opinions and advice, it's been very helpful. Apologies in advance for no doubt many more threads from me in future!

OP posts:
Yetanothernewname101 · 11/08/2023 19:34

I think the abusive reply says it all really.
You're right, not seeing Mum with the pups is a big red flag.
Your ideal Lab is out there and it's worth waiting until you find the right one. We got ours from 200 miles away after passing on others that were closer but didn't feel right or we also spied red flags.

Newuser75 · 11/08/2023 21:54

I'm so glad! You have totally made the right decision! You will find your dog and it will be all the better for the wait!!

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 12/08/2023 14:21

DoggyNewbie · 11/08/2023 19:18

Just to update- have told breeder of 16 week old pup that we're not going ahead and have had an abusive message in reply.

Have registered on champ dogs and messaged a couple of breeders today.

Thank you all for your opinions and advice, it's been very helpful. Apologies in advance for no doubt many more threads from me in future!

Good call, OP.

I hope you realise that the price of our advice is puppy pictures...? 😉

ilovesushi · 12/08/2023 22:50

Good luck with your search. You were right to listen to your gut instinct. Labs are fabulous dogs. We got our wonderful dog by contacting owners through champ dogs. Be prepared for a bit of a wait for the right dog. I had lots of very useful informative conversations with people who didn't have dogs available but were willing to share their wisdom and their contacts. Now I'm very much part of the local dog community, and I'd look for a future dog through word of mouth from someone local. That wouldn't have been possible before becoming a dog owner though I did stop people with dogs relentlessly to question them!

Tumbleweed101 · 16/08/2023 18:52

My pup was 16wks when I got him as last of a litter, think he was still there as someone let them down last minute (not a lab). He was very easy to train and socialise despite that and has been absolutely lovely so 16wks can still be early enough.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 17/08/2023 09:04

Tumbleweed101 · 16/08/2023 18:52

My pup was 16wks when I got him as last of a litter, think he was still there as someone let them down last minute (not a lab). He was very easy to train and socialise despite that and has been absolutely lovely so 16wks can still be early enough.

It's great that it worked out for you, but always treat the "someone let us down" story with massive pinch of salt. Most breeders require a large deposit, for exactly this reason - to stop last minute changes of heart.

I'm sure there are occasions when a buyer genuinely has to forfeit the deposit due to a sudden change in circumstances, but not many.

OrlandointheWilderness · 17/08/2023 09:16

For a working bred lab try gundogs direct. If you are anywhere near Lincs I know a very good breeder with a fox red litter. Ensure all health checks are done, meet the mother. A good breeder will vet you never mind the other way around!
I'm biased as we have gundogs but I'd always go for a working bred dog. And commit to their training, find a decent trainer. It takes so much time and money but is worth it.

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 17/08/2023 09:45

Hi all, another update from me! After joining champdogs and messaging several breeders, we viewed a litter on the weekend and have reserved a beautiful pup ready to be collected early September. It was world's apart from the viewing of the 16 week old. Met mum and Dad, both extremely well trained, no jumping up and both calm and friendly. Spoke at length to the breeder about why we wanted a pup and she helped guide our choice. So very excited, if not slightly daunted, have been reading as much as we can in preparation. Have also received pics and videos of the litter this week.

OP posts:
Enthusedeggplant · 17/08/2023 09:50

Much better - now get training g the family:) A good pup makes everything better:)

LaviniasBigBloomers · 17/08/2023 10:00

This is such a great thread. OP, I'm so happy it worked out for you and hope lots of other people with similar questions find the thread too.

The thing that really struck me about the 16 week old was how were you supposed to know there were so many red flags. And then at your second viewing, you could see the difference immediately. It's so hard for complete novice owners to get it right and of course they all desperately want to, so the moral of the story is trust your gut, don't be taken in by the cute puppies and if in doubt, ask for advice. This has put a massive smile on my face.

Oh and PICTURES PLEASE!

Swimbius · 17/08/2023 10:20

Most breeders require a large deposit, for exactly this reason - to stop last minute changes of heart.

Most good breeders would far rather a last minute change of heart than someone taking a pup home and then not coping later on and wanting to return.

There's also a world of difference between a 16 week old pup that's been with the breeder, been house trained, properly socialised and had some basic training than the pup op was looking at.

ilovesushi · 17/08/2023 10:32

@Swimbius 100% agree. The breeder we got our pup from didn't want a deposit because she didn't want anyone who had potentially had second thoughts feeling committed because of a down payment. She was also very clear that if anything didn't work out the puppy (or dog) came back to her.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 17/08/2023 10:39

Swimbius · 17/08/2023 10:20

Most breeders require a large deposit, for exactly this reason - to stop last minute changes of heart.

Most good breeders would far rather a last minute change of heart than someone taking a pup home and then not coping later on and wanting to return.

There's also a world of difference between a 16 week old pup that's been with the breeder, been house trained, properly socialised and had some basic training than the pup op was looking at.

I don't disagree, but my point is about what you see advertised, as opposed to what good breeders do. The type of breeder you are talking about will have a waiting list.

The type of breeder who is likely to be advertising a pup as "the prospective owners let me down at the last minute" should be treated with great caution.

If you spend 2 minutes on the common pet-finding websites, you will see 100s of puppies who have supposedly had this happen. Surely you aren't disagreeing that this is a red flag?