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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Just saw an advert for amazing sounding pups but mum won't be there - it's a red flag isn't it

103 replies

DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 21:21

As title. Gutted, was making arrangements to view the litter and on checking that mum will be there was told no, only dad as mum was getting upset with the pups so has gone to stay with a friend. Pups are 12 weeks so not tiny but still, it's a red flag is it not?

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 10/08/2023 21:58

Not all rescues will rule you out if you have kids.
Do you want show or working lines! That’s the next question. Show lines will have a breed club. Check what health tests are needed. Eg hips for both parents?

TolkiensFallow · 10/08/2023 21:59

Never get a pup where you can’t see the mum.

my advice is to contact the breed club who will put you in touch with a reputable breeder. It will also probably be cheaper as they are breeding for the health of the breed rather than the money

wetotter · 10/08/2023 22:01

My puppy came from a breed enthusiast who only has a litter occasionally. She keeps the puppies 12 weeks because she is firmly in the camp that the extra bit of time being told off by mum and rolling round with siblings is good for their development.

I saw the puppies with their mother - photos then a visit at 8 weeks before collection at 12 weeks. Very clear that they were really living there and the mother was a beloved family pet.

So 12 weeks isn't necessarily a problem. Absence of the mother most definitely is!

mondaytosunday · 10/08/2023 22:05

No it's not right the the mother (of the 16 week old) was jumping up and excitable. Good breeders will make sure that their dogs are socialised and used to normal household sounds - kids, vacuum cleaner, postman etc. Plus pups can be walked after they'd second load of shots - was the dog not vaccinated? I'd be wary about one that has never been outside and experienced cars and other dogs.
As for the pups - yes mum needs to be seen, and even if was true she was 'upset', that doesn't say much for her temperament.

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 22:15

mondaytosunday · 10/08/2023 22:05

No it's not right the the mother (of the 16 week old) was jumping up and excitable. Good breeders will make sure that their dogs are socialised and used to normal household sounds - kids, vacuum cleaner, postman etc. Plus pups can be walked after they'd second load of shots - was the dog not vaccinated? I'd be wary about one that has never been outside and experienced cars and other dogs.
As for the pups - yes mum needs to be seen, and even if was true she was 'upset', that doesn't say much for her temperament.

Yes pup was vaccinated (I saw the record). I was wary about how excitable mum was, there didn't seem to have been any training? And she was 6 (the mum). I was very surprised about the pup not being walked, the breeder just said vaccinations were only recently completed and that they were worried he'd slip the lead and needed a harness. I have no problem with a harness being needed, that's what I would plan to use anyway but just seemed iffy that they'd not done it?

OP posts:
Badbudgeter · 10/08/2023 22:16

I think the first thing to consider is have the parents been properly health tested, elbows, hips, eyes genetics etc. Possibly biased as I'm rural but consider dogs from working lines. The people I know who breed from their working dogs are really comitted to getting the best out of their dogs. They do need lots of exercise/ time / stimulation though.

Anecdotally the local vet tells me that dogs from working lines are often healthier than their show counterparts. Apart from annual checkup my dog has never been to the vet.

painochocolate · 10/08/2023 22:17

Avoid

Mrsjayy · 10/08/2023 22:17

DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 21:57

@Mrsjayy the pup we saw today was with mum. I'm definitely not going to see the one that mum is not there

Ah OK.

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 22:18

painochocolate · 10/08/2023 22:17

Avoid

Both pups? Or specifically the one where no mum present?

OP posts:
NormaLouiseBates · 10/08/2023 22:20

If it's a lab you're after then you shouldn't haven't any trouble finding a responsibly bred litter as they're such a popular breed, assuming you are willing to travel a bit to collect the puppy if necessary. Have you looked on Champ Dogs at Labrador breeders?

nevisbump · 10/08/2023 22:21

Avoid with no mum present and I would report it to RSPCA / sspca. I read a couple of years ago that they will hire a Airbnb with family rooms in it so it looks reasonable but puppy is from a puppy farm.

For the 16 week puppy, that all sounds normal. Walks are short to begin with and would be easier to train starting from nothing

NormaLouiseBates · 10/08/2023 22:22

Badbudgeter · 10/08/2023 22:16

I think the first thing to consider is have the parents been properly health tested, elbows, hips, eyes genetics etc. Possibly biased as I'm rural but consider dogs from working lines. The people I know who breed from their working dogs are really comitted to getting the best out of their dogs. They do need lots of exercise/ time / stimulation though.

Anecdotally the local vet tells me that dogs from working lines are often healthier than their show counterparts. Apart from annual checkup my dog has never been to the vet.

We have a working line fox red Labrador and I would definitely recommend them over the show type.

Paperbagsaremine · 10/08/2023 22:22

OP I suspect a good breeder will have had new families lined up for their pups in advance.
Breeders who are still looking for pup buyers when they're 12 weeks, sounds like you could do better.

How old are your children btw?

You're right to be cautious, you'll have the dog for well over ten years if all goes well, and you want to avoid both temperament problems and physical issues like hip dysplasia. It's as important as picking a husband!

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 22:25

@nevisbump thank you. I've not looked at Champ no, it's hard to be sure where to look. I've looked into commercial breeders but I know many folk are against those too

OP posts:
Mummy2022FT · 10/08/2023 22:26

Can anyone enlighten me on why it matters to see the mum? Im genuinely intrigued

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 22:29

@wolfiefan I've emailed my local breed club tonight, thank you for that suggestion.

It sounds like the puppy mats and not being walked (the pup we saw today) is not necessarily a deal breaker then? More so the excitability of mum 🤔

Will have a big think.

OP posts:
Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 22:30

@Mummy2022FT a few reasons I think, to see she is well cared for, to see her temperament and so that you can see that the breeder is an actual breeder? I'm sure the more knowledgeable people on here may have more reasons too.

OP posts:
Badbudgeter · 10/08/2023 22:35

Mummy2022FT · 10/08/2023 22:26

Can anyone enlighten me on why it matters to see the mum? Im genuinely intrigued

You should ideally see both parents. You want to see the temperaments, dogs that are happy, confident, healthy and well socialised are going to produce puppies that share their traits.

Wolfiefan · 10/08/2023 22:35

Because puppy farmers will dump a whole load of puppies together and claim they are one litter. They just want to sell quick. Plus some puppies are shipped in and sold illegally. It’s a bloody minefield.
The thinking it would slip a lead sounds like an excuse. Have you checked what health tests parents should have before breeding?

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 22:38

@Wolfiefan I saw papers for the parents of the 16 week old pup today, I'm not an expert but definitely covered hip, elbow, eye examination and I remember exercise induced collapse too.

OP posts:
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 10/08/2023 22:41

Plenty of nice lab puppies on Champ dogs. You still need to check out hip scores and and KC status etc, but Champ Dogs is a good starting point.

Do not risk buying a puppy farm pup. Not only are they horrendously cruel to the mothers, but the pups are often in poor health and badly socialised. You don't want your kids to go through the pup dying, or to put them at greater risk of being bitten, because the dog didn't get proper socialisation in the early months.

Pedigree Labrador Retriever Puppies for Sale - Champdogs ®

Find the best Kennel Club Registered Pedigree Labrador Retriever Puppies at Champdogs - The pedigree dog breeders website.

https://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeds/labrador-retriever/puppies

Yesabsolutely · 10/08/2023 22:45

We got our gorgeous JRT from Eridge Estate in Tunbridge Wells 15 years ago and I really thought we had done our homework . Apparently the Mum had been run over by a tractor and I was still taken in !! She really was the best dog and the people who sold her too me were now ,in hindsight paid to sell her 😞My advice is to be really careful.

Original poster
DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 22:47

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow thanks. I've had a look but there are none within 100 miles of me at present.

OP posts:
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 10/08/2023 22:49

DoggyNewbie · 10/08/2023 22:47

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow thanks. I've had a look but there are none within 100 miles of me at present.

We drove 300 miles for ours! It's worth it for the right dog. As a PP said, it's as important as choosing a husband (actually more important - who wants to have to divorce their dog?)

Badbudgeter · 10/08/2023 23:06

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 10/08/2023 22:49

We drove 300 miles for ours! It's worth it for the right dog. As a PP said, it's as important as choosing a husband (actually more important - who wants to have to divorce their dog?)

Show quote history

We travelled from Scotland to Northern Ireland for ours. Multiple times once to see parents when Mum was pregnant. Next time to meet puppies when they were little/ decide which one worked best. We had thought we were definitely getting a boy and ended up getting a girl as she was just so lovely. Third time to pick up the puppy.

A dog is a massive commitment and it pays off putting time into the decision making process