At my wits end with this puppy!!

[RoSa1719]

Hiya! I wonder if you have any puppy advice…. cos we really are at our wits end 😢
Belle wakes up ready for the day between 4 and 5am!
We have tried everything. Dark cosy room, later dinner, walk in the evening, keeping her up and playing before bed, later bed time, ignoring her when she wakes so early, not giving her breakfast as soon as she wakes…. Nothing is working.
She barks and crys, I let her out in the garden for her to wee and poo. I don’t talk to her just let her out then straight back in her room so she knows it’s still night time. But she doesn’t go back to sleep, or if she does it’s not for long.
Today for example she woke up at 3am so I let her in the garden. She did a wee and poo, back in her room and I went back up to bed.
4.15am she was barking and crying. I ignored her. She would not stop. It got to 5.15am and she woke the kids up. I gave in and went down to her. She didn’t need a wee. She just said hello to me and then she fell back to sleep on the sofa!
I cannot carry on like this, it’s killing me and waking the children up. Any advice welcome xx

The OP is not being unrealistic to want a 16 week old puppy to sleep later than 4.15

8 week old puppy maybe waking very early but this puppy could have been with the OP for 8 weeks.

Many puppies would happily be sleeping from 100-6.00 at 16 weeks of age.

The puppy has been away from the litter for over 8 weeks at this point.

OP look at when you are giving your last feed.

If puppy is waking up a bit hungry then they will find it hard to go back to sleep deeply. Also make sure that the puppy is warm enough early morning can be the coldest part of the night.

Put a worn item of clothing in with the puppy to help comfort them.

It is up to you how to survive this the easiest. I would have a place to carry on sleeping downstairs for a while just so you can survive.

How does the puppy sleep in the day time and where?

I never ever ever have dogs in my bedroom and somehow manage to have very confident dogs with no separation anxiety (which seems to be a MN first!) .

I do sleep downstairs for a week or two until the puppy is settled but would be in my own bed by 16 weeks.

Op this too will pass.

First off - take the water bowl away at bedtime.
That really helped our older dog waking up for a 4am wee.
I'd try the crate again and a nightlight.
Our dog really liked the nightlight.
I wouldn't go downstairs with her, you'll end up with her expecting that all the time.
Have you tried a bed upstairs on the landing? That really helped our dog, she liked being close without being In our room.
Also, keeping the radio on very low during the night is a good idea, especially in the area she sleeps.

I slept downstairs on a mattress next to pups crate so I could soothe him ( just murmuring settle down over and over again ) until he fell asleep again. I was downstairs fir about a fortnight moving a bit further away each night. He was quiet after about 3 nights but I stayed anyway until I was basically 2 rooms away, and then I went back upstairs.
It's a good compromise between leaving them to cry and having them in bed with you!

Dogs are pack animals, if you can’t provide them with a pack don’t get a dog. It is extremely cruel to make a puppy sleep alone. I expect some of them get used to it but they are never going to like it.

I have never known a puppy to engage with the idea of a lie in , you are being unreasonable . Lets get this day started yay 🤣🤣

I slept on the floor in the kitchen on a z bed when I had a puppy. Over the weeks I gradually moved further away from him until he was in the kitchen and I was back in bed upstairs. It takes time, especially if you don't want her in your room at night x

All of my puppies have slept with us for a time, some longer than others.

Once they grew up and given the choice every single one sleeps downstairs of their own accord. All are happy being left, no separation issues here.

If your not keen on dogs upstairs I would be tempted to camp on the sofa with her from 4am and get a few extra hours sleep there. This will pass much like any other stage!

First off - take the water bowl away at bedtime.

Please don't do this. Dogs should have access to water 24/7.

I feel your pain. I think in the first 8 months I didn't have a full nghts sleep. Tried everything. Slept next to him in crate. Let him choose his place to sleep. Let him in bedroom...changed last walk, meal, calmed in evening, exhausted him in evening...no matter what he'd wake at 4/5 and all he wanted was to relieve his boredom and move to another room where he'd sleep but only if I stayed with him.

In the end I just got up at 6am every day and walked him. Now 2 my husband and I take it in turns to lie in past 6..30am.

It’s not a MN first. My old Lab was the most affectionate, confident dog you can image with no separation anxiety whatsoever and he never went into our bedrooms even once.

Everyone’s different and dogs are very adaptable. Feel sorry for OP with what they are currently experiencing but agree it will pass. Maybe it’s easier to have a puppy in winter when the nights are darker, I don’t know.

Good luck then.

Our puppy slept in the same room with us from day 1 and we never had your problems. In fact, he slept through the night very early on.

Hi OP
What time does your puppy have her last meal, and go to bed?
I’m just wondering if the urge to poo is waking the puppy up, and whether tweaking the last meal to earlier, and seeing if she will poo before bed may help.

This.
Can you really not let her sleep upstairs near you?
Both ours did ( separately) then after a couple of months they wanted to stay downstairs in their special bed in the corner, in the dark.
Water must always be available.

At that age I ended up letting him out for a wee when he woke and then snoozing on the sofa in the kitchen with him for the last couple of hours until he was old enough to sleep in later and wait for the toilet.
I started off setting an alarm to go down and let him out, then moved to letting him wake me and then I'd stay down with him and gradually he woke me later and later until he reached the point of it actually being morning and he was sleeping through.

I think this is really normal, I used to get up at 5am and let my puppy out and then kip on the sofa with him him until 7ish. Could you do something like that?

From 7/8 months I started letting him upstairs and everyone slept much better. I had previously said I didn't want him upstairs 🙈

Dogs are pack animals, if you can’t provide them with a pack don’t get a dog. It is extremely cruel to make a puppy sleep alone. I expect some of them get used to it but they are never going to like it.

Give over...I've had dogs all my life and raise puppies for a charity, none of them have ever slept with me past the first couple of weeks when I've slept downstairs and gradually got them used to it.

So they have slept with you then.

I think that’s the point people are trying to make.

It’s a gradual process, made easier if they start in with you, and transition out.

Our 8MO started in our room, into the hallway, literally outside our room, and now in the room opposite.

I think that’s the point people are trying to make.

The poster I was replying to wasn't...

Maybe one of you needs to sleep downstairs with her then until she starts sleeping longer? That's what my friends did when they got a puppy.

@RoSa1719 - your lesson here is - never ask for advice on pets on MN, you will be torn to shreds.

I get you don’t want the pup to sleep in with you - neither do we.

Just do what you need to do in the early days, though.

We had the crate in with us for the first few weeks, then as I said above, slowly move it out - outside our door (with door open), a little bit further away, then a bit further again.

The early months are tough, and a lot of people don’t expect it.

I found it especially tough with our first pup - because you have zero sense of how long it’s going to go on for. I’m much more chilled with subsequent pup.

This will pass.

Also, was your crate covered with a large sheet or towel? It needs to feel cozy, contained and safe. That doesn’t happen with an open, uncovered crate.

your lesson here is - never ask for advice on pets on MN, you will be torn to shreds.

I don't think she's been torn to shreds at all - she's just received lots of realistic advice about owning a puppy.

I actually think mn is pretty good for dog advice, tbh. There are always the rudies and the wrongies - but there are also quite a few on here that offer really experienced advice. I know I've spoken to vets, behaviourists, highly advanced trainers (eg competitive agility, assistance dogs, sniffer dogs), qualified walkers all on The Doghouse, all offering their hard won and often expensive knowledge for free.

There are a range of ways to raise a dog well and so not everyone will always agree on the methods they would use, but they are often offering valuable points of view and advice.

This is what we did. It took about 6 weeks.

I would personally try again with crate training - you need to make their crate the best place ever as first. Treats in there, feed them in there, leave the door open so they can come and go as they please and don’t feel trapped, snuggly blankets and toys (although never left alone with them in there). We had the crate upstairs with us in our bedroom for the first week and then moved it downstairs, but next to our other dogs crate so puppy wasn’t alone. He’s only 11 weeks but sleeps a solid 8 hours now with no crying or mess. Don’t restrict water but make sure they’re going out right before bed and have a play/attention before going in. I feel like I’ve got lucky with night times though, some dogs take a bit longer.