Bully breeds

[Jenzine]

There are many understandable concerns regarding these types of dog, and as a dog owner myself, I have taken to avoiding places that I’ve encountered them, as a precaution, because dog aggression is common in them as a breed instinct, just as ratting is to terriers and herding to collies.
Areas I can walk my dogs (I always walk them individually, I don’t trust other people’s training of their dogs, and want to be sure that I can manage any situations that arise, which is always infinitely harder when walking multiple dogs) are vanishing at a fast pace with the baffling popularity of these mutants.
Defenders of these dogs always claim it’s the owner not the breed, however there are bad owners of every breed and most breeds still aren’t killing people fairly regularly. There also seems to be no consideration among the defenders and deniers that even if the dog is genuinely nice and loving, that it could become unwell (brain tumours, neurodegenerative conditions, general sickness) which can make even the friendliest Labrador have a sudden change in behaviour.
If any of my dogs, god forbid, ever get poorly in a way that makes them react aggressively, I know that I’m physically capable of preventing serious injury to myself and others by restraining the dog; I don’t believe the same could ever be said of an American bully XL or their owners.
All this to say, what is the justification for an otherwise reasonable person (not the drug dealers and chavs buying status dogs) with or without children to get one of these dogs? Just “liking them” surely is not an acceptable answer when weighed against the lives of human beings? What can they offer as a companion animal that you cannot get from any other breed of dog that you are actually physically capable of controlling?
How are these enormously heavy and powerful dogs not automatically in violation of the dangerous dogs act just by existing as a creature capable of exerting about 240kg of force at the higher weights of 60kg (dogs being capable of exerting force at 4x their own weight)? I don’t believe any human is capable of controlling these animals physically, and verbal control of dogs is never 100% and as someone with a lurcher, I know that no matter how well my dog recalls in general situations, the moment her prey drive is activated, she will not even hear the command to be able to follow it, which is why she’s only off lead in enclosed fields.

I don’t believe in any of the myths about these dogs perpetuated by either side (E.g the locking jaw myth of the anti-bull breed brigadiers, or the nanny dog myth of the staffy/APBT nutters) dogs are dogs, they can be good/bad, well treated/abused, but I don’t believe that owning dogs is a right, I believe it’s a privilege that is too often abused, even by well-meaning people.
How many times do we have to mourn children and adults before “[dog’s name] has never done this before!” Is no longer something we hear all too often from people with dogs that can’t be restrained by anything less than a cruise ship anchor, after their “loving family pet” has mauled a grown man to death in a park, or dismembered a toddler in their own home?
People often compare this argument to the argument against guns in America, however, a gun is not an autonomous animal capable of physically overpowering its owner and firing itself at will; dogs are.

Sometimes that’s the case, but it frequently isn’t. All too often it has been a pet that was fine until it wasn’t.

“It’s not the breed. it’s the owner”
I don’t think anyone can deny that some dog breeds have a higher propensity for aggression than others. If you own one of these dogs and are then an irresponsible owner then this is a disaster waiting to happen. I know someone who breeds malinois he trains them for the army police etc he is an expert witness for the police he enters these competitions where the dogs have to prove their guarding attacking ability. He’s very successful and wins all over Europe he will only sell his puppies (which sell for 1000s) to other people who know and understand the breed and understand what they are buying because they have been bred to be aggressive so this aggression needs controlling correctly channelling and training. He and I’ve also met US army people who train them are not treating like furry humans they are very carefully handled. Trust me the words “fur babies” is definitely not part of their vocabulary nor do you ever hear them say “he would never hurt a fly” they understand what these dogs are capable of and treat them accordingly clear boundaries are definitely in place. The dogs are handled and trained daily hours are spent on it, and the man I know who breeds them is constantly on alert when he’s out in public with one of his.
This issues is that there is no such a thing as the perfect dog, no dog has perfect recall (contrary to what many say on here) or perfect any other behaviour at all times dogs are nor machines that you’ve programmed and that will keep repeating the same action over and over again until you tell them to stop. As anyone whose worked with animals will tell you dogs or any other domesticated animal will get tired distracted excited find themselves in situations they are not familiar with and sometimes will do something completely out of character, good training reduces this but it can still happen to the best trained dog. This is the problem with even responsible owners owning very large and very strong dogs with a propensity for aggression.

And in any event, I don’t particularly want to apportion blame or to be critical of peoples choices. I may think they made a stupid choice but I don’t think a stupid choice means paying for it with your life, or child’s life.

It’s simple to me - they are dangerous, firstly, and secondly there is nothing ‘good’ that comes from breeding or owning them. It’s a vile world of fear and misery for humans and animals and it is wrong and reprehensible it has been allowed to carry on.

It really isn’t, that’s just rubbish people say.

If you actually read more than the headlines then it’s a very different picture.

They're vile and should be culled out of existence imo.

Do you actually want an answer to why some people have ‘bully breeds’? I’ve tried before to respond to people before but ultimately get told to kill my dog after being called all sorts of names. Every comment I make, every explanation of the lengths to I go to to make sure my dog and the public are safe, just picked apart until the inevitable put your dog to sleep you ignorant chav comes out.

11 people killed by dogs between Jan 22 and Jan 23
6 were by American XLBully

38% of all dog owners this year are first time dog owners.

Personally I stay away from any dog or any owner I do not know. Obviously MN excluded,most owners do not have a clue!

There are way too many inexperienced dog owners who have not got a clue with dogs.

Unfortunately banning the dog is not the way forward ( as the dangerous dog act has shown) but (god knows how!) encouraging or enforcing responsible dog ownership would make a huge difference

@tabulahrasa headlines sensationalise the issue, sure, but there has to be an issue to sensationalise.

@SoullessInSeattle yes, please, if you don’t mind?

Strong guarding instinct, high bite force, very difficult to train, and irresistible to children = lots of unfortunate bite incidents.

Luckily their reputation as a Disney dog keeps them from being of interest to thugs and drug dealers.

This again is the issue with inexperienced or people with no dog knowledge.

Dogs will show warning signs. If people do not pick up on them or leave the dog in the situation then the warning signs will escalate.

Some of the deaths were by dogs that had only been in the house for a very short time - there was no way those dogs should have been with children until they had been assessed over a longer period of time - same for all breeds tbh,

@tabulahrasa right, I’m sure that is really comforting. If my child was killed by one of these breeds I’d definitely be totally reassured by that

@SoullessInSeattle … yes and no. I don’t want to be dismissive of you here and I’m sure you’re not a ‘chav’, I hate that term. I have to admit the choice baffles me. I do think sometimes it’s a misguided attempt at kindness. One of my friends shared an animal rescue post on social media a few weeks ago - they’d found a litter of XL bullies and were seeking potential homes and I did shudder a bit.

Family pet kills is a much better headline than, dog bought online 6 weeks ago and already had complaints from the neighbours about aggressive behaviour kills or owner who kept 6 stressed, neglected dogs in cages in the garden is killed...

And apart from one husky and one Rottweiler, every fatal dog attack between 2022-present has been a bull breed.

Not the breed though, how silly of people to assume this.

If it wasn’t such a horrendous and upsetting topic it would be laughable people think it’s acceptable for children to be ripped to shreds because the dog was bought a few weeks ago

Have you got evidence on that?

I agree op but then I feel the same about a lot of large breed dogs tbh.

My dog weighs 7kg and if needed I can pick him up and easily restrain him, there is zero chance of doing that with a 50-60kg dog!!

That’s a very weird take tbh.

The point I’m making is that it’s not the breed of dog that’s causing an issue, it’s people.

Changing laws about breeding and ownership would make a much bigger difference, but people get fixated on the breed instead.

I agree with you OP. I have two black labs and they are strong enough when they want to get to something, there’s no way I could control an XL bully so I wouldn’t have one.

Dogs should be there to have a lovely time with, not be primarily bought as a weapon, it’s not fair on the dog or other people/animals.

I’ve never seen one in our small rural town which makes me grateful as I’d be avoiding like the plague, I wouldn’t want my dogs near one on a walk.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies agreed! Even if only for the dog’s safety, if they’re injured and can’t walk, how do you get a 50kg dog to the vets? I regularly practice carrying my 19kg dog down the road, just to make sure I’m still capable of carrying her for long enough to get her to car and from the car to the vets. Being able to do this also means being able to hold the dog back from something they want (cats, other dogs, etc).

There’s literally a list on Wikipedia. At some point, the wilful ignorance becomes malicious, honestly.

“Dogs will show warning signs. If people don’t pick up on them or leave the dog in the situation then the warning signs will escalate”
I own two dogs neither are bred to be aggressive one is a companion dog the other a “herding dog” although I doubt he could heard anything!
I don’t have to be constantly looking for warning signs when I’m just going about my day to day life. But neither are well socialised with babies/very small children so in the unlikely event either came into my house I would shut my dogs away, or if I’m out and I meet small children (in particular) tottering along I put my dogs on leads and watch like a hawk their body language looking for “warning signs” that they are uncomfortable thankfully neither display any warning signs but you can never be too cautious.
But if you own a large dog with a propensity to be aggressive like the man I know who breeds malinois you need to be always on the alert watching whats going on. I don’t think the even the average dog owner going about their daily lives with maybe small children can possibly do this even if they are “responsible” owners

here

The first death in 2021 was 5 February and was a Staff X.

Then two American bulldogs in April 2021.

November and December 2021 there are two (different) fatal attacks by XL Bullies.

In January 2022 British bulldogs are responsible for a fatal attack.

In March 2022 there are three fatal attacks, one is the Husky and one is an XL Bully, the third is a Rottweiler.

Then in May 2022 fatal attack by a Cane Corso.

May, July and august 2022 all see three different fatal attacks by three different XL bullies.

October 2022 Is a fatal attack by American bulldogs and then the year ends in December with a fatal attack by an XL Bully x cane corso.

2023 we have

XL Bully fatal attack in January.

American bulldog fatal attack in January.

April 2023 says ‘unconfirmed’ and I’ve no idea why; I’m local to that one and it was an XL Bully.

May 2023 another XL Bully.

June 2023 was a ‘banned breed of dog’ and given there are only four of them and three are very unusual I would bet my house it was a pit bull.

@tabulahrasa saying it’s not the breed ignores the genetic predisposition to dog-aggression that these animals were selectively bred for. No one argues that collies aren’t purposely bred to, and have the instincts for, herding sheep, no one is surprised when jack Russell’s housed with small animals kill them in a momentary lapse of safeguarding, despite the dog not being a “trained” ratter.
but somehow, breed characteristics don’t matter at all when it comes to the breed that keeps popping up on the news for having mauled a toddler, or grown man, or elderly woman.

@tabulaI just can’t believe that you don’t accept that the breed of dog is partly responsible for these attacks. The sheer size and strength of the things for a start.
Whilst these sort of ridiculous believes are repeatedly peddled by dog lovers then dog attacks by these dogs will continue.