I thought dogs were meant to not mess in their crate!?

[Mumma2Ro]

Hello
we’ve got a 9 week old Labrador. She’s amazing and we are so in love with her.
but she keeps pooping in her crate!! A bit more context, it’s only been when she has been in her crate with the door shut. So either over night or when I’ve been on the school run.
I thought the whole idea of the crate was that it was their safe space and they don’t mess in there!?
never any wees just poos.
Her Poos are very soft atm while we are transitioning her from raw food diet to kibble. Could this be why! Is she struggling to hold it. But it doesn’t happen any other time, all the rest of her poos are done in the garden. It’s 1.30am and I am yet again putting wash on 😩😩
sorry for the rant. Any advice please.
just now I went down as soon as she started crying, I never leave her crying in there.

Can i ask why people use crates? It's only a relatively new thing but it sounds really cruel to me. Am i right in thinking that It basically amounts to locking a dog into a small confined space? This could be for hours if overnight? Can the the dog stand, walk around in this crate?

I use a crate and have done for all 3 of my dogs (eldest is 9) because they are all bull breeds and prone to chewing. I'd prefer not to find a dead dog because he's chewed an electrical wire or similar.

The eldest two migrated from crate to memory foam mattress when they stopped the chewing and they were safe in the house (around 2).

Youngest is 13 months and still a chewer when tired, so goes in his crate to protect himself to have his nap and over night sleep. He slept from 11pm to 6am pretty much from 12 weeks but he is large breed.

When he stops being a chewer (I expect next year) he'll also migrate to a memory foam mattress.

Youngest had to have an operation recently and the vet said he was the best behaved dog in the crate. When I said I'd crate trained him she said it was absolutely the right thing to do. He is now 40kg, so I imagine would be an absolute pain to try and keep calm if he had never been crate trained. His crate can fit my husband and I in together with room so he has plenty of room to fully stretch out and move around. He also chooses to go in if DSS is here and it is getting too much so I think he see's it as his safe space.

I think the key is to introduce the crate correctly for your dog, and as every dog is different there is no 'one size fits all'

I use a crate for safety and comfort. So if my dog has to be in a confined space anyway eg. The car, on our camper van, the vets or groomer then she is in a crate so she cannot come to harm or get into mischief.

I spend months training it. You slowly build value in the crate that it’s a good place to be and if she worries then I’ll be there to let her out.

Personally I don’t crate a dog when I’m not there. It’s just for confinement when being tethered or loose is not an option. It was really useful overnight when our pup was small but she was put in sleepy then let out as she began to wake as her crate was right beside our bed. I competed my last dog in agility and she often came with me when I judged. She would then need to spend time in the car so a crate (or caging) is vital for this as you can leave a vehicle open so it doesn’t get hot and the dog is secure. We are usually within sight of our vehicles (judges park by their rings) so if the dog has an issue we’re right there.

Some people do use them when they are not in the house or away from their dogs but most people I know don’t. They can be a really useful tool but like anything even collars they can be abused or used incorrectly.

My dogs crate is bigger than she needs technically. She can walk around in it.

I took my dog to foundation agility last night. The instructors dogs were in her car with the boot open in their crates happily snoozing away after a long walk before she trained them after our class. I would argue that for most ‘pet’ people they’re not all that useful other than for confining them overnight for a few months but again that needs to be done carefully.

They should always be able to stand up and turn around - I always buy big enough that they can sleep sprawled out without touching a side... which is bigger than they recommend for housetraining as it leaves room to toilet there too, but I honestly don’t think they’re great for that anyway.

I did a fairly long explanation further back about how I’ve used them, but currently I’m settling a new not housetrained rescue into a house where we have a dog with some behavioural issues and a cat, so he’s crated next to my bed overnight.

Most people use them to keep puppies safe while they can’t supervise them, less people keep them for adult dogs and even less routinely close the door once the dog is an adult even if they keep them.

Some people do use them to confine a gig while they work or whatever, which is in most people’s opinion misusing them, but, I’ve known people to lock dogs in bathrooms to leave them all day and a bit if extra space honestly doesn’t make it ok...so...

How is it shocking?

I don’t want my dog in my bed so he’s not allowed in the bedrooms. He’s not allowed in the games room, too many dangers in there for him. I don’t want him in the shower with me either so that room is out of bounds. He knows this and lies on the other side of the door and waits quite content at my convenience or he may wander off and lie in his crate.

He has a crate in the car, he leaps into it and is happy and safe, he’s not jumping about or sticking his head out of the window or distracting me as a driver. When he’s wet, dirty, covered in sand the mess is in his crate not all over the car. The dog walker uses a crate, the vet uses a crate, he is not stressed by this, it makes life easier.

He is a power chewer he will likely eat something that will harm him if not supervised, the crate is very useful when I can’t be with him.

He is free to roam parts of the house and garden and flop wherever he feels like it, be that snuggled up to me or in his crate. He is my dog not my baby. I love him to bits and yeah it’s at my convenience but actually it’s often good for the dog.

@Newpeep and @tabulahrasa Thank you for your detailed and clear explanations. From what you say, crates can be useful and not harmful if used correctly.

At that age, as they need to poo shortly after they eat.. so if breakfast is before the school run then it's not surprising he/she is pooping afterwards

Our dog is in a crate overnight with the door shut but not locked - if she wanted out she’d just have to nudge it, yet she’s always lying in there in the morning until we open the door so certainly doesn’t seem to dislike it at all

Great post. 👏

She’s been taken from her mum too young and is stressed. Crates are horrible, have her in your room with a bed.

Puppies are ready to leave their mothers at this age. Puppies are not human babies. You don’t need to bring them home and put them in a bed next to you, that’s what we do with human babies.

Our puppy came home with us at nine weeks. She travelled in a secure crate, with toys and blankets given to us by the breeder. Once home, we set up her crate in the corner of the kitchen. The crate was warm and cosy, as it was still cold she had an electric blanket. We put the blanket and toys in, all smelling of mum and the other puppies. We covered the top and sides with a blanket to cut out any drafts and make it cosy.

We made no effort to put our puppy in there, it was just left to her to explore the house. Within 10 minutes, she had gone inside and snuggled down. Dogs are programmed to find a den in a corner where they curl up and feel safe. She chose to go into the crate and has loved going in there from day one. The only time we close the door is if we have to go out and at night. In order to make sure she was ok when the door was shut, we set up a pet cam, which could also relay sounds. She’s been perfectly fine from day one. She’s a very confident pup, housetraining has been quick, we’ve had very few accidents. The excellent breeders had the puppies and mum in a large crate set up in their living room and they had begun housetraining them. They were allowed the run of the living room, just after everyone had been to the toilet!

She’s eight months now. She still travels in a crate in the car and our campervan and is still sleeping in the kitchen crate. Sometimes, if I go upstairs I will sneak a peak on the cam to see what’s she’s doing. She always heads straight into her crate and goes to sleep. I would imagine she’s thinking, she might as well have a quick nap whilst nothing is happening.

She’s being spayed next month, so once that is done and dusted, we will replace the kitchen crate with a basket.

Crate training works for puppies and for humans. Those who hate the idea of keeping a dog in a cage are looking at it the wrong way. You make the crate an inviting place of safety for your pup. Ours goes in there sometimes when we have visitors with kids and dogs. It’s her safe place. When we’re not around to protect her, she goes in and we shut the door but use the dog came to check on her. I love dogs and I love my puppy so much.❤️❤️❤️. I would never do anything to upset her or harm her.

All very lovely. Ours hated it, howled and wept (yes, really) and she was 12 weeks. She came to our bedroom on night two and within a couple of nights slept contentedly on the sofa. Continued to do so for 15 years, until she passed.
I repeat, crates are horrible.

I completely agree. They CAN be used well as a few posters have show but most people haven't a clue and dogs suffer because of it.

shown apologies for typo

Wow I’m shocked at all the crate hate.

My older dog, I ditched her crate at 2 when she was safe to roam the house at night with no risk. I bought a crate for DPup when she came home in January and older DDog can often be found in pups crate. Dpup is crated at night, when a tiny pup it was in our room so I could hear her the minute she woke up and take her for a wee. She was moved downstairs only when she was reliably sleeping through. Dpup doesn’t use it much during the day - usually because DDog has made herself at home in it 😂.

They aren’t tools of torture if used properly.

You can say crates are horrible as often as you like but it doesn’t change the fact that when used properly, they are completely fine.

They aren’t tools of torture if used properly

I completely agree but I think a lot of people don't use them properly and that's the problem, unfortunately.

I think that’s on them though... even if your only source of information is google, crate training brings up pages and pages of info on making it a positive place and not using it to shut a dog away for long periods.

So people who expect to just be able to put a dog in there without the training or are planning to leave a dog in them while they go out all day have either just decided to do that and have never bothered looking it up or are ignoring the information they find about crates.

That’s not an issue with crates, that’s an issue with people.

We had exactly the same experience and its ar real regret of mine that we ever attempted to crate train. We did everything by the book, but there was no way he was ever going to see the cage as a positive place. We got rid of it, and as a small puppy we just got him his own dog bed, put it in our room, and he was happy as Larry -would give me a little nudge to wake me when he needed to go out in the night. He has never been destructive, never chewed anything, has the run of the house when we are out and is fine. Great if the crate works for you but they are not for every dog.

I honestly don’t know how to put this without it sounding like a criticism....

But you didn’t do it by the book, neither did the poster you quoted, ever single reputable guide to crate training will say you do it at the pace of the dog, moving forward only when it is ready to. (As in I’m sure if you look hard enough you’ll find some dodgy advice)

You are not supposed to move forward a step until the dog is completely happy at the step you’re at and if you move forward and it’s upset, you stop and move back one immediately.

You should never have a crying upset dog, literally the second it’s stressed you should realise you’ve moved on too fast and go back to where it was ok.

Though you’re right that not everyone needs a crate, if you have a puppy that is either already used to one at the breeders or takes to it very quickly they’re handy for that stage, but not essential.

You are right tabulahrasa we did get some dodgy advice the worst one was to leave in crate overnight from day 1 and completely ignore any barking and they would settle after a few days. We realised very quickly that this was a road we didnt want to go down but we were told this verbatim by numerous people so I think it's very common practice. I actually think the amount of dog owners that do crate train correctly are very few and far between. I'm still not convinced that our dog would ever have taken to his but that's OK as we have no problems without it. He has lots of little safe places around the house he can retreat to.

Unfortunately there are loads of people with real dodgy dog advise, it’s one of the few areas in life where you’d be better just using google 😂 sadly some dogs will eventually just stop making noise if they’re left to cry it out, but they’ll be resigned to it rather than happy, but people think it’s worked because their aim was quiet.

But yeah, for a lot of people if you can crate train a puppy quickly it’s very handy for that stage and makes general training easier, but they’d manage fine without one, it’s nice if when they go to get neutered or are injured then they’re not also freaked out by being crated, but not worth spending months doing it just for that, unless you know they have a health issue necessitating it.

and most dogs will be fine in a crate in a car without any training, it’s just the part of the car they travel in.

Someone up thread crate trains because they compete in agility, I do it because I have complicated dogs, so for some people it is more important, but for most... not so much.

How do you know? I have no clue what other people do inside their homes.

Because I work with dogs.

People will tell you...