(10 year old) Labrador pup not well :(

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I am hopefully catastrophising but very teary for some reason.

10 year old Labrador (still my puppy!) has not been well this week. Started with bilious vomiting each morning, took to the vets mid week who gave him a good check over said all seemed ok, dogs can start doing things like this as they get older, and gave him some omeprazole. He was eating, drinking, peeing all as usual.

Friday he was sick twice - the second time was a big pool of very dark brown sludge (more like poo than affected by blood I think) rather than food. Took him to out of hours vets service our vets outsource too. They checked over again, said seems ok and gave him an anti sickness jab. An expensive 20 min consult and jab (£406!) but would rather be safe than sorry.

Seemed a bit out of sorts yesterday, but still eating, drinking and peeing, no more sickness so thought just recovering himself. Gave him something to eat late last night, as vet said could help with morning bile problem if tummy not empty for too long overnight, which he ate ok - not enthusiastically, but thought that was just because he was confused getting fed at a different time.

Today, still no sickness, but he is very lethargic, noticeably wobbly walking, wouldn't touch his breakfast (never refuses food!), tail down not a single wag, won't even come for a pat, left a wet patch on the carpet from drooling. So he is back at the out of hours vets again with dh (while I wait for Tesco delivery!), they have looked over again and said abdomen, temperature, heart, lungs etc all still feel/sound good. dh texted to say they have given him another anti sickness jab and have taking bloods because dh asked for more to be checked.

Are we over reacting (and spending a fortune at the vets for no reason), he just doesn't seem right...

That's him booked in and in the vet hospital. I powered through, but did cry a bit at the end and embarrassingly couldn't talk for a bit 😳

They are, initially anyway, approaching it from a completely different angle from the local vet. Big drip feed coming, as local vets totally disregarded this when we asked so it wasn't on our radar at all.

He was in the vet hospital in 2020 with a dilated pupil in one eye. They did an MRI scan and found "something" on his oculomotor nerve. This is deep in the back of his head/brain so was inaccessible for further investigations, but the hospital said if it was something sinister there would be little they could do and we would know about it very quickly, within months as these things tend to progress very quickly, but it could also be a condition where there is a swelling on the nerve and otherwise harmless and to just wait and see. Because it was 3 years ago we had always assumed the latter.

So first steps are some neurological tests today and then they will phone and let us know how they went, if they don't pick up anything they will discuss which tests will be next, probably something under GA tomorrow.

It is going to be a long day...

Thinking of you and your DPup today, OP 💐 I hope the vet hospital can get to the bottom of things.

So sorry you are all going through this. Hoping for a positive outcome 💐

Working through scenarios in my head for the call later today. If they say it is this "thing" and the neurological tests show it is impacting his neurological functions and this why he can't eat/drink, it is a physical thing, even though he wanted to 😥.

Options would be an MRI to see what is going on, but after what they said last time about not being able to do anything not worth doing? Not worth putting him through a GA.

His current condition is he is losing weight, 4kg so far, not sure if they would offer chemo, but that isn't going to be a quick solution and he will continue to lose weight until it started making a difference with no guarantees.

So the kindest this is going to be to make the decision to PTS isn't it? 💔 (crying again).

He won't have had a GA. Do we bring him home (1hr in car) and take him to local vets? Or do it at the hospital?

We had arrived early at the hospital and had a little walk with him in the hospital grounds and honestly while he must be starving, dehydrated, (he ate 2 small spoons of mince yesterday and drank nothing, nothing again today and unlikely to eat at hospital) and have no energy he had a couple of little skips around and he looked okay for a couple of minutes...........😭

You poor thing. What a difficult time you’re having. Sending gentle hugs to you and Pooch xxx

Oh op, I am sending so much love to you all.

I'm sending you and your pup love and praying he is OK. Please don't dismiss chemo if he needs it. I was terrified at the sound of it but it was just a couple of tablets that my dog took daily at home. It improved his life and gave him extra time. I completely understand how you must be feeling. I pray that it turns out to be something easily treatable but if not, the most unselfish and loving thing you could do is let him go where he is now. Don't put him through a long car journey x

Vet hospital has called. The neurological exam did not show any significant problems but they can't be sure without a MRI but the exam does not indicate one is necessary.

They managed an abdominal scan without needing a GA and it has shown thickening of the stomach, she said something about it usually being made up of layers and being 1/2cm thick but it is over 1cm thick in quite a large area.

This could be either severe inflammation or a stomach cancer of which there are different types.

Only way to find out would be a GA and camera/sample (£1,500 - £2,000) and then we would know what we are dealing with.

If inflammation it could be treated with steroids.

If cancer depending on type it could possibly be treated with chemo (£3k-£5); or if another type there is nothing that could be done as area too large, but they could possibly relieve symptoms with steroids for a short time.

They are calling back at 17:30 to find out what we want to do.....I am thinking

Go ahead with camera and sample (uses up last of insurance and costs us (£1.5k)
If "just" inflammation then it would be steroids
If "chemo treatable cancer" we have a big money decision to make (need to ask her if it is tablet chemo or IV and how long it is likely to give him)
If "not treatable cancer" let him go under GA (not sure if they can tell that while he is still under)

WWYD?

I don't know how you are fixed financially. If I could afford it I'd have the tests that would show exactly what it is. If not, I'd be tempted to give the steroids a try. Obviously, if you go ahead and have the test to find out what it is and it's a cancer treatable by chemo then, as you say, you have big money decisions to make. My dog had chemo in tablet form and responded well to it and it worked very quickly, within days. He had a massive tumour on his throat and it literally disappeared almost overnight. It did come back a year later and eventually he couldn't take the chemo tablets. I didn't have insurance (long story) and the tablets were about £400 per course. However, my vets did me a prescription for them and I could buy them at about a third of the price online. Only you know how you are fixed financially and how much you are willing to pay. I'd definitely have given the steroids a try though if there was a chance they could help him. I'm sure it would soon become obvious whether they were working or not.

How long does a £400 course last..........?

Another factor to add in is insurance renews 27th of this month (3 weeks time), so we get another £4k then......... which could cover the cost of some of the later courses of chemo but we can't delay it entirely because he is not eating and losing too much weight.

I am so sorry you are in this awful position.

We had a horrible decision to make with our 13 yo dog recently. Our vet counselled us towards palliative care. To make him comfortable in minimally invasive ways so he could make the most of the time he had left whilst he was still enjoying life but not to put him through anything distressing (he was a bit of a wuss!)

Your beautiful boy is 10 years old. Putting money to one side, I think I would only be considering interventions that would have an immediate positive impact on his quality of life OR a very high chance of a successful outcome. Of course it's easy to say that across the internet and quite another thing to be sat there making the decision.

Unfortunately, the £400 course only lasted about a month. It's very expensive treatment but I didn't give it continuously. The tumour on his throat used to disappear so I laid off the chemo for a bit then put him back on it if it started to appear again. This was all monitored by regular trips to the vet to check his liver etc and to make sure he could cope with the chemo. I sacrificed everything, holidays, presents, new clothes etc to keep buying it. That's why I'll never get another dog again. I'm the type that would bankrupt myself to keep my dog alive. If you can afford the test to determine exactly what it is and the vet thinks he can physically survive the GA I'd have it done. At least youll know exactly what you are dealing with then.

It sounds so difficult. As the owner of a 10 year old Labrador myself, I’m really on the fence about what you should do. How awful for you all

Oh op this is heartbreaking for you. I hope it is gastritis treatable with steroids.

If it is cancer and chemo etc offered I'd refuse and just go with end of life care. I'm sorry, but even if treatable there are no guarantees and to pay hundreds and more would seem futile in a relatively older dog. If he was 3 or 4 yes but I think you need to be realistic to his long-term health

Have you been using any essential oils in vaporizers? Similar symptoms in our springer when a friend did.

Just spoke to them and she is away to make sure there is a slot tomorrow for the biopsy to find out what we are dealing with.

She doesn't know what the chemo regime will be until they know what they are dealing with - said it will probably be IV and in Glasgow (45min-1hr drive) and hanging about once a week to begin with. There goes all my annual leave! Chemo would be life prolonging not cure, but she couldn't say how long potentially/on average.

so much to think about, head hurts! fingers and toes all crossed it is just inflammation!

Just take it step by step or you'll go crazy. Wait and see what the results are tomorrow before jumping too far ahead, I know it's very hard not to. Let's hope it's the scenario where only steroids are needed to treat inflammation. Please find some comfort in the fact that you are doing everything possible to help him x

Hope it is only inflammation. One of our dogs had IV chemo at Edinburgh vet school and it was usually early morning appt and I nipped along to the Gyle while he was in, it wasn’t an all day thing. Sometimes your own vet can do it so ask. Good luck.

Ah poor puppy and poor you. What a horrible situation.
Hoping it’s just the inflammation. I personally wouldn’t put a 10 year old dog who was unwell anyway through chemo even if money was no object.
Fingers and paws crossed for you

@Vitaminbees when you say you wouldn't is it because you have experience and it wasn't good? I have heard before that dogs tolerate chemo very well and most experience no side effects at all (unlike humans) - if it was tablet form and local vet could do it it would be much more preferable to taking him to Glasgow for IV treatment every week.

❤ just to also say thanks to everyone for keeping me company this afternoon and the days before. dh had to go out to work when we got back home, I am WFH this week (not much work happening today, will need to catch up at weekend, but boss has been very understanding) and it was bit lonely (over)thinking about it all. 💐

I have actual experience and my dog suffered no side effects at all from the chemo tablet. I don't regret giving him chemo at all but let's hope it doesn't come to that and it's just inflammation.

What an awful time for you and DDog, we have 10 and 11 year old Labs and knowing they are getting older is hard.

I had Chemo and Radiotherapy last year and we've decided if either of ours need it we won't do it, based on how I felt, saying that I'm not sure that's what we would actually do.

I've always been one of the best a day early than a day too late dog owner, it's so hard though when it comes to it. Easy for me to say when I'm not in that position though.

You've got to make the best decision you can with all the facts, thinking of you and DDog.

The chemo tablets were called Masivet and I ordered them from Viovet. I had to provide a prescription and I admistered the tablets carefully at home. He had no side effects with the correct dosage, it was trial and error at first, too much made him vomit but we soon found the correct dosage.

I’d be tempted to try the steroids and not have the biopsies . Our 13 yr old dog was very unwell this New Year , very sudden onset , had loads of scans and eventually something was found on his spleen . We were given the option of biopsy with potential spread , splenectomy or treat his symptoms . A splenectomy for the type of tumour our vet suspected has a very poor prognosis post op ( a few months ) so we went for treating the symptoms. As I said upthread I don’t have the same dog I had pre New Year but he is here , happy and goes for a run offlead everyday . Best wishes whatever you decide .