Concerned about trigger happy farmers

[Staffielove23]

I read a case where a dog was shot whilst on a lead. I came across this randomly whilst researching gun law. The dog had previously worried sheep and the owner had managed to put their dog back on a lead, but the farmer believed it would get loose again and shot it. The farmer was cleared of all charges in court recently and I believe this sets a worrying precedent.

It used to be the case that a dog could only be shot whilst in the act of sheep worrying to protect livestock, and not afterwards as punishment or a preventative measure against future attacks. This recent case isn’t reflective of this as the dog was shot because the farmer thought the dog might get loose again so it was done as preventative action.

Sheep worrying is ofcourse a crime and I support farmers when shooting is done as a last resort, and owners should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I walk my dog on a lead near livestock, always have and always will. It used to be the case that dog owners didn’t have to worry about their dogs getting shot providing we kept our dogs on a lead and under control. This no longer seems to be the case. If I am walking adjacent to a field or on a right of way, if the farmer is concerned or believes there is evidence of dog having previously worried sheep despite my dog not being guilty of doing such, then could they potentially shoot my dog as a preventative method and face no legal repercussions?

I feel the law is out of date and the authorities really don’t seem to have a good track record when it comes to holding farmers to account. I found another case where a dog was shot and fatally injured. Instead of ending its suffering the dog was left to suffer unnecessarily and it seems an awful lot like causing unnecessary suffering to an animal. There was another case where a dog ran into a field of sheep, which is totally unacceptable but it was running back to owner when it was shot. The owners was clearly very irresponsible but I still believe, based on the facts available to me, that the farmer acted disproportionately. Perhaps there is more to the story, I don’t know. I feel I’ve opened up a can of worms and I worry for my own dog and personal safety now.

Yes they do, although when sheep are in the fields with footpaths in sometimes our farmer electrifies the field and that includes the footpath. We just all know to go a different way for a bit as we aren't dicks and there are plenty of other footpaths.

Agree.

I'll just add that there are places in the country where pretty much every public local footpath runs through a field that does or can contain sheep at points of the year. It can be hard to avoid them even when you stick to public RoW.

That said, in addition to all my precautions above, if I get to a field and, for whatever reason, I cannot give the sheep a good amount of distance from the dog and I (maybe because they happen to all be grazing right on the pathway), I would double back. I might have the dog under clear control but a sheep would not know that and I would never want to worry or frighten them - especially just before/during lambing season.

Hilariously (now), the dog and I once did an extra 4 miles on a walk that was quite long enough, because every blooming field we looked at contained sheep or cows right on the pathway! Sod's law. Of course, it's a funny story because both dog and I are here to tell it and I'd much rather tell a story about extra miles than a story about a near miss!

OP, I really don't think that you are suited to living in the countryside. It's a second thread about farmers and shotguns. Dogs kill sheep and cattle by chasing them and either physically attacking them or just worrying them to death. I've read this week about a farmer in Wiltshire who has had to have cattle destroyed because a dog caused them injuries. Apart from the fact that the cattle suffered, the farmer has had a financial loss and also the distress of finding cows in a dreadful state.
Don't walk dogs in fields where there are any farm animals. BTW, do you know that cows can and will chase humans if they feel threatened ? Often happens when they have calves and are protecting them. Please try to educate yourself on living in the countryside.

Aye - there are two type of livestock fields I would (personally) never enter, regardless of how far away from the PRoW they are:

cows with calves and pigs

No bloody chance I am getting in a field with either of these!

Dogs dont have to attack the sheep to cause the farmer great loss either, simply chasing them around or upsetting them can cause them to abort unborn lambs.
Your dog shitting in a field, if that gets field gets cut for silage, it causes a disease which also causes abortion in unborn cattle.
I wont get into horses sometimes being less than intelligent and eating bags of dogcrap that people seem to decorate tracks and the surrounding trees/hedgerows with.

Oh god it's you @Staffielove23 ! From the farmer with a gun in the field next door fame!

Why are you obsessed with farmers and guns. Either you're a journalist or you have an anxiety issue.

That might be possible in a mainly arable or mixed farming area, but would be impossible around here - livestock in virtually every field and roaming free in many areas.

I have every sympathy for small farmers - and for any farmer whose stock are attacked. But I'm not being guilted out of enjoying public rights of way. Half of all land in England is owned by less than 1% of the population and about 20% is owned by large corporations, including huge agribusinesses (of England is owned by less than 1% of its population link). This isn't a simple David v Goliath story of small farmers losing livestock to the dickhead element of the public. Often, it's the public having to fight for their already very limited rights to access land owned by the super rich.

Yes, it's easy for us to find another way to go.

So your rights to have a walk with a dog not on a lead trumps the rights of the animals to stay alive then?

fyi the land might be own by big companies/owners but said land is rented to farmers. And it’s THEM who see their livelihood being attacked by reckless dig owners. Not the big owners/corporations. Those couldn’t give a fuck about whether you are walking your dog there or not.

The issue isn’t the right of way. I dont think any farmers have an issue with that.
The issue is irresponsible people who have no respect either for the farmland they are walking on or the animals in there.

And it’s pretty impossible to catch and prosecute those not respecting said rules incl

• no dog nit on a lead around animals
• Walking on the path not where ever people feel like it (see the ‘oh but it was muddy there’ brigade etc…)
• Respecting private property (see the ‘oh I didn’t think it was a problem going there’ despite big signs saying ‘Private Property’)
• Not feeding animals etc etc

If you want to keep the right if way, I’d start with abiding to the rules.

Why are you obsessed with farmers and guns. Either you're a journalist or you have an anxiety issue.

OP, I really don't think that you are suited to living in the countryside

You literally know next to nothing about me so you can have your assumptions back. Also I don’t think writing two posts about two different issues surrounding one subject constitutes an obsession. I’ve done nothing wrong by posting and wanting a discussion. That’s what forums are for.

Farmers fences are designed to keep their livestock in the appropriate field, not to prevent a dog getting in. Fences cost a fortune to repair & replace.

why are you allowing your dog to chase rabbits anyway? Keep your dog on a lead on farmers fields (livestock or empty) then it won't be an issue.

Yep @SarahSmith2023

Interesting how people think it’s always other people that should take steps to stop them from behave badly isn’t it?
Blame the victim comes to mind too.

A dog is considered out of control if it leaves your sight at any point and for any length of time. In this way it is possible to lose control even if you’re still holding the other end of the lead, especially if it’s a long line or an extendable lead.

I think it would help OP to get to know people who own or work or live on farms to understand more about animal agriculture in general and the human lives affected by thoughtlessness of dog walkers and other recreational users of rural Britain.

you don’t have to have many working brain cells to realise that dogs pose a huge risk to livestock.

you keep your dog on a lead when on farmland.
always
no exceptions

I’m a dog owner.
my first dog was a border collie, who was raised on a farm, and was exceptionally obedient. We still didn’t risk him around livestock, because it is too great a risk.

my current dogs have zero recall so are rarely off-lead.

I live in an area surrounded by fields of livestock, I also have a dog.

I would never ever walk her anywhere near these fields. There are plenty of places to walk her off lead with no livestock.

We had a similar case here recently of a repeat offender whose dog worried sheep and cows everyday. The farmer asked her repeatedly to put her dog on a lead or walk through the woods which was 2 minutes in the opposite direction.

He pleaded on local Facebook groups to keep dogs on leads etc..

He shot the dog whilst worrying sheep, and she got absolutely flamed in the local Facebook groups, and local news paper, as she was outraged that he shot her dog and referred to it as her fur baby had been murdered. Whilst on a lead.

However, the farmer had filmed her off lead dog over the course of weeks, and it was never on a lead. She didn't even have a lead on her when the police arrived.

She really should've been prosecuted!

Your dogs are your responsibility, always. You are responsible for ensuring they are not where they should not be, doing things that they should not be doing.

Most people walking a dog on a short lead will not be shot, nor have their dog shot. There are a couple of instances where this hasn't been the case, but as ever the full details are not known, just two differing perspectives. There were several poor decisions made before the point of the shooting where it could have been avoided.

If this is really on your mind and you are sufficiently worried about your dog being shot when it's on a lead, by a farmer, then I'd be making decisions that mean that this is not going to happen. ie stay away from livestock with your dog, but be careful you don't get knocked over on the road.

Life is not risk free. You just have to decide which risks you're comfortable and most importantly get them in perspective before you do so.

Hello OP, here you are once again slagging off farmers! If you have some sort of phobia about farmers or guns, I would gently suggest that you seek treatment because your fears seem to be preventing you leading a contented life. I fully expect a barrage of fury in return for my concern over your welfare because you seem also to have a narcissistic streak and believe yourself to be above criticism ... even when you are clearly in the wrong 😜

I’ve worked on farms which had regular dog attacks, due to busy footpath routes.

The problem is bloody entitled owners whose “furbaby” couldn’t possibly do anything wrong (and a family who let their children chase a field of heavily pregnant ewes).

Farmers tend to put up with a lot before getting to the point of shooting a dog, but watching your sheep’s life blood literally drain out before your eyes does that to you, trying to patch up a lamb with its throat ripped out by a small breed dog and having the owners scream at you that their dog couldn’t possibly have caused that much damage, when you literally watched it happen, tends to lessen your patience with idiots.

Too many owners think they have a god given right to walk their friendly dogs and let them off lead near livestock - no dog has 100% recall in 100% of circumstances, so no dog should be off lead in these places.

OP if your dog is on a lead it is safe. If you let it off in a livestock field then it’s not. Simple.
If your dog chases a bunch of sheep then you catch it and put its lead on, it’s not safe.

So you just started two posts about farmers and guns for 'discussion'?

OP, I can almost 100% guarantee that the farmer is not going to shoot you, your kids or your dog.

The absolute entitlement of some people.

Farmers should make their fences absolutely dog proof because you want to let Fido chase a rabbit 😅 unbelievable

The fact that so many posters have recognised you from your previous thread indicates there might be an issue.
Farmers are pretty busy at this time of year. They're not just lying in wait for you or your child to go into your garden to start shooting or for you to walk your dog.

Exactly this! So many posters starting threads for 'discussion' but what they really mean is 'I only want responses that agree that school is wrong/DH is an arse/neighbour should let me do x'! 😁

Move back to the town, OP. The country isn't for your type.

@Milger why did you quote my post, then address it as though I'd said that? It was the poster I quoted that thinks that, not me!