Concerned about trigger happy farmers

[Staffielove23]

I read a case where a dog was shot whilst on a lead. I came across this randomly whilst researching gun law. The dog had previously worried sheep and the owner had managed to put their dog back on a lead, but the farmer believed it would get loose again and shot it. The farmer was cleared of all charges in court recently and I believe this sets a worrying precedent.

It used to be the case that a dog could only be shot whilst in the act of sheep worrying to protect livestock, and not afterwards as punishment or a preventative measure against future attacks. This recent case isn’t reflective of this as the dog was shot because the farmer thought the dog might get loose again so it was done as preventative action.

Sheep worrying is ofcourse a crime and I support farmers when shooting is done as a last resort, and owners should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I walk my dog on a lead near livestock, always have and always will. It used to be the case that dog owners didn’t have to worry about their dogs getting shot providing we kept our dogs on a lead and under control. This no longer seems to be the case. If I am walking adjacent to a field or on a right of way, if the farmer is concerned or believes there is evidence of dog having previously worried sheep despite my dog not being guilty of doing such, then could they potentially shoot my dog as a preventative method and face no legal repercussions?

I feel the law is out of date and the authorities really don’t seem to have a good track record when it comes to holding farmers to account. I found another case where a dog was shot and fatally injured. Instead of ending its suffering the dog was left to suffer unnecessarily and it seems an awful lot like causing unnecessary suffering to an animal. There was another case where a dog ran into a field of sheep, which is totally unacceptable but it was running back to owner when it was shot. The owners was clearly very irresponsible but I still believe, based on the facts available to me, that the farmer acted disproportionately. Perhaps there is more to the story, I don’t know. I feel I’ve opened up a can of worms and I worry for my own dog and personal safety now.

@Staffielove23 I walk my dog on a lead near livestock, always have and always will

Why? To me, this reads as rather arrogant is there a need to wall the dog on other people's land near livestock?

I suspect there was more to this than has been reported. I.e. the dog owner in question had form for repeatedly letting the dog off the lead despite its behaviour towards the sheep/inability to control the dog when off the lead.

I read that rather differently: she keeps the dog on a lead need livestock because she's not prepared to put livestock or dog at risk.

Are you 'farmer shooting near my house' poster?

The city is beckoning Town Mouse! Pack up and move back.

'That’s what worries me. It’s their word against yours. No CCTV or witnesses in the countryside. They could say they seen your dog worrying sheep when it was a different dog or an outright fabrication, and the burden of proof seems to be on the owner.'

We have a system of justice based on presumption of innocence 'until proven guilty' in the UK. That applies to all crimes not just the shooting of a dog. And is as it should be.

Also why would a farmer shoot a dog that had not been worrying his livestock? If there is a footpath then there will be multiple dogs, so shooting one dog won't make any difference. And guaranteed to bring the police to his door if while the dog is on a lead.

I really don't see it as a problem, but if you are that worried about a specific farmer, choose another walk.

you dont have to walk your dog in a field of sheep

The farmers are making it clear that you must keep your dog on a lead near livestock.. The phrase 'worrying sheep' means chasing them or panicking them in any way. A dog doesn't need to attack to cause a ewe to spontaneously abort her lamb. And a farmer doesn't need to own the land, he could rent it or have rights to graze.

If you keep your dog on a lead and under control you'll be fine.

I'n not concerned about 'trigger happy farmers': I should think the number of farmers that would shoot gladly instead of as a last resort is absolutely tiny.
I'm much more worrieds that my dog will get into a situation where it would be right and justifiable for a farmer to shoot him.
Of course, I am training down his interest in sheep to make it as low as possible. And I would always have him on lead if I was in a field of sheep. But I feel scared of badly maintained fences that might allow my dog to cross into a sheep field while following the scent of a rabbit or whatever. No matter how hard you work at training, a dog that suddenly finds himself in the middle of a flock of fleeing sheep is highly likely to chase.
That just means I need to keep on being vigilant. Although I do also wish that farmers maintained their fences a bit better. I often spot weaknesses and gaps in fencing, especially at the bottom where foxes ,badgers et al have shoved their way through.

I live rurally in a place with sheep everywhere I turn. My neighbour keeps sheep, the local farmers all keep sheep and graze them on public land too, as is their right.

The sheer number of dogs has exploded in the last three years and I hear more and more cases of of sheep being worried, chased, and then dying as a result.

i cannot find a written judgment in this specific case but I have read a thread on this before and as I recall, yes the husky was in a lead, but was fighting like all hell to escape and the as pulling out of his collar. There is no way, with our gun laws, that if the judge didn’t believe that he’d have got off. Does anyone have a link to court report or similar, my Google skills are failing.

fundamentally, dogs should be under control around livestock. In fact, they should be under control at all times. The consequences of them not being under control and then chasing livestock are severe enough I cAn only recommend always have your dog on a lead anywhere near them. That’s what I do.

Unfortunately some dog owners lack common sense, no dog should be running amok in a field with livestock, and if you take that risk your dog could be shot. Happened a few times where we used to live. There were quite a few sheep farms. We owned a dog for 13years, never found it necessary to walk him in a field of sheep.

Currently, it's bird nesting and lambing season on Dartmoor, and therefore all dogs in the national park should be on a lead. However at least 50% of those I see up there aren't.

Dogs worrying sheep often cause the sheep to suffer massively - through injuries and spontaneous abortions, and they can cause deaths too. But the welfare of the sheep doesn't seem to matter to you?

I don't agree with leaving the dog to suffer, but a single dog can leave tens of sheep to suffer, even if they appear uninjured.

I don't think the farmer should have shot a dog so close to a person, I do think that's unsafe, but if all dog owners were responsible, and kept their dogs from worrying sheep, then things like this wouldn't happen.

it is not fair on the sheep to walk through them,
i prefer fields where i can let my dog go,
i know the fields near me
one time her lead broke, the sheep ran, and dog ran, but halfheartedly, she has done the same with ducks when her lead also broke!
so although she is not really interested in sheep, anything that runs is tempting for a dog to chase.

🤣🤣

I suggest you stay away from the countryside if you are concerned.

All dogs should be on leads in the countryside as they do a huge amount of damage to wildlife. I wish they would change the law on this to make it clearer.

The very same.

If you’re that worried, don’t walk your dog near livestock. Have you seen what happens when a dog chases sheep? Just because the dog has returned to the owner doesn’t mean that it hasn’t already caused harm. And how do you know the dog wasn’t about to break free again?

Before you panic about a farmer shooting your dog, you ought to familiarise yourself with UK law around firearms. The licencing system is extremely strict and those who hold firearms are bloody careful not to breach the conditions under which they are held.

Secondly, have a chat to a farmer who has lost sheep. I know one, his wife showed me the photos on her phone after they lost over a dozen ewes to two dogs (that resulted in a conviction). I couldn't look them at all, and I have a pretty strong stomach. And that person upthread can bore off with the bullshit about 'farmers don't have a conscience'. These are the people who feed you, and they are human beings just like you are.

Thirdly, if you walk your dog in the countryside, ensure that it is stock trained or at the least finds sheep boring. Don't rely on it being on a lead if it finds sheep ever so exciting, because a lead can get yanked out of your hand by an excited dog. Don't rely on staying out of fields with livestock, because sheep are well-known escape artists.

I have two high-drive gundogs and think of stock training as an ongoing job. TBF they are bloody good, but it's not something I'm ever relaxed about.

Dog owners need to understand and respect that farmers' livelihoods depend on the safety of their animals. The countryside is not a playground for your fur baby. I've been walking nearby and have been spoken to like dirt for asking owners to get dogs on leads.

If a dog had just attempted to chew up your livlihood you would shoot it too if it looked like it would try again.

The owners are to blame for the dogs death, everyone knows you keep your dog on a lead and under control around livestock. If you don't have good control of your dog, don't walk it through a field of sheep.

I’m nit a dug owner and I’m nit a farmer.

But you are been horrified fir a dog died when ‘he wasn’t doing any harm because he was on a lead’ AT THAT POINT ONLY.
And seem to have no issue with the number if sheep/lamb who routinely died after ‘worrying’ from a dog.

Noticed the difference in language. One has been shot and the other is being worried. Both died though…. You seem to be very worried about the well-being of dogs (or is it just yours?) but any worries for the sheep? Nope, not one.

How will it continue to worry sheep if it’s on a secure lead or harness though? I don’t follow your logic at all.
Simple.
The owner will set it free AGAIN once the farmer is out if sight. Because you know poor dog needs to be free to run blablabla
If one owner isn’t responsible enough to keep his dog in a lead when they are close to animals AND know they dont have a good recall, what makes you think they’ll be responsible enough to keep it on a lead???
Im pretty sure this won’t have been the first time either….

And btw, I fully agree, the dog died because of its owner.
One that hasn’t trained their dog well enough for recall.
One that doesn’t keep them on a lead near livestock
One that doesn’t care about animals (read the sheep)

If you want to find someone responsible, look at the owner. There is a reason why the farmer was cleared of all charges!

No one should have their dog off a lead in a field with farm animals ever. Plus even on a lead you risk spooking the animals. I know these were sheep but do you fancy being trampled by cows.

Assume you grew up in a town op because you seem clueless.

Good on farmers wanting to protect their animals from idiot dog owners.

I witnessed a dog shot. Idiot dog owner was standing laughing as the dog run around the field. Farmer shouted out to control the dog. Idiot said fuck off. Farmer shouted a second warning. Idiot did nothing.

How long should the farmer yell out to control the dog?

There was also warning signs letting people know the consequences.

Several sheep died that day for absolutely no reason.

Never saw the farmer issuing warnings to dog owners who kept their dogs on the lead.

There are a lot of issues to worry about in this world but this is not one of them.

Keep your dog on a lead and visibly under control near sheep = no issue at all ever.

Speaking as a dog owner and sheep owner.

That just means I need to keep on being vigilant. Although I do also wish that farmers maintained their fences a bit better. I often spot weaknesses and gaps in fencing, especially at the bottom where foxes ,badgers et al have shoved their way through.

We live in an area where it's mainly arable fields but in the winter they often move sheep down from elsewhere into fields that have previously held crops. Normally have nothing more than a single stranded electric fence. So you can be walking along a public footpath and suddenly encounter sheep without ever passing through a stock gate or going over a stile. My dog has good recall but I don't really want to put that to the test around sheep as the consequences are too severe.