Concerned about trigger happy farmers

[Staffielove23]

I read a case where a dog was shot whilst on a lead. I came across this randomly whilst researching gun law. The dog had previously worried sheep and the owner had managed to put their dog back on a lead, but the farmer believed it would get loose again and shot it. The farmer was cleared of all charges in court recently and I believe this sets a worrying precedent.

It used to be the case that a dog could only be shot whilst in the act of sheep worrying to protect livestock, and not afterwards as punishment or a preventative measure against future attacks. This recent case isn’t reflective of this as the dog was shot because the farmer thought the dog might get loose again so it was done as preventative action.

Sheep worrying is ofcourse a crime and I support farmers when shooting is done as a last resort, and owners should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I walk my dog on a lead near livestock, always have and always will. It used to be the case that dog owners didn’t have to worry about their dogs getting shot providing we kept our dogs on a lead and under control. This no longer seems to be the case. If I am walking adjacent to a field or on a right of way, if the farmer is concerned or believes there is evidence of dog having previously worried sheep despite my dog not being guilty of doing such, then could they potentially shoot my dog as a preventative method and face no legal repercussions?

I feel the law is out of date and the authorities really don’t seem to have a good track record when it comes to holding farmers to account. I found another case where a dog was shot and fatally injured. Instead of ending its suffering the dog was left to suffer unnecessarily and it seems an awful lot like causing unnecessary suffering to an animal. There was another case where a dog ran into a field of sheep, which is totally unacceptable but it was running back to owner when it was shot. The owners was clearly very irresponsible but I still believe, based on the facts available to me, that the farmer acted disproportionately. Perhaps there is more to the story, I don’t know. I feel I’ve opened up a can of worms and I worry for my own dog and personal safety now.

This is the second thread you have written about farmers with guns, You seem a bit obsessed., its really weird.

Pet dogs have no business being on farmland or anywhere near sheep either leashed or unleashed IMO.

Walk your mutt elsewhere then it's in no danger of being shot, is it?

This feels like whipping up froth for the sake of it.

Husky: the farmer believed it was about the slip it's collar. None of us know for sure but that does not sound like a dog on a secure lead or harness. Anyone walking a husky (a breed notorious for sheep worrying) in a sheep field without secure equiptment is being foolish. Plus, this was not a walker with a dog just passing by. This was a dog that had JUST attacked sheep. That brings a clear distinction between this case and someone's pet being shot just for walking near sheep. It's not a precedent for shooting without cause. The court has far more information than us about the particulars of the case.

Benji's owners sound like bloody idiots. "There needs to be more awareness about the dangers of walking dog near livestock". Are they fucking kidding??? How much more awareness could there be?!?! They are walking a predator near prey animals. It shouldn't need spoon feeding to them. My guess? (though, of course, I cannot be sure): they are first time dog owners who got a cute little cokapoo for the kids and never once bothered to learn about the legal or moral responsibilities of keeping the animal they bought.

I walk in a part of the country where there are sheep everywhere. I have a dog that has been trained to ignore them and has a very low prey drive. I STILL do a lead and collar check before we enter the field, still use verbal controls on top of using a secure lead to keep him close and STILL chooose a route that keeps us at distance from the sheep. Not just for his safety but so that it is crystal clear to any farmer that my dog is 100% under close control. It's really not rocket science.

How will it continue to worry sheep if it’s on a secure lead or harness though?

The dog in the article wasn’t on a secure lead or harness.

Also, you read the comment below the article?

huskita
16 MARCH 2023
I'm the proud owner for 10+ years of a Hunter/Predator Husky crossed with a Japanese Akita. He is big and powerful and would love a sheep for supper! However, if there's one thing I learned from his puppy years, he will never be told what to do off the lead when there's something to chase. He is also so powerful with a lions mane neck that a collar is useless! Get a harness for these breeds as they will escape if you're not good at handling. In my neck of the woods in Scotland, farmers have been shooting huskies for the last decade because of irresponsible owners not knowing what their dog/pet will inheritantly do off the lead as an animal. I'd hate to have my dog shot because of something I stupidly did but the message is simple, "Don't walk your dog next to a field full of someone else's animals with no harness!" I wish I had a pound for every time a dog owner said, "Oh, he's never done that before!!"

Your endless attempts to equate a farmer shooting a dog which has been worrying sheep with the farmer shooting a person is ridiculous.

Your endless “what ifs” about a dog worrying sheep being got back under control later suggest you are not as careful around livestock as you should be.

Walking in the countryside I’ve seen dogs chasing sheep multiple times with the owners totally unable to recall and in several cases not even bothering. Until all dog owners start taking a bit more responsibility, this will keep being a problem. This survey suggests that many farmers experience verbal abuse, a refusal to put dogs on leads and a total lack of respect. Not all dog owners, of course, in fact many are totally responsible, but given how often it seems to happen, I think it’s actually quite noticeable how restrained farmers are in the face of poor behaviour that puts their livelihoods at risk (BBC article suggests around 50 dogs per year are shot by farmers).

https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/workspace/pdfs/2022-nsa-sheep-worrying-results_1.pdf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35960051.amp

And posts like this outline exactly how it is possible to be a very responsible dog owner. This is the way to do it, and I have little sympathy for those who worry their dogs might be shot for worrying sheep because if you actually take the right precautions, it shouldn’t happen.

If a dog has previously worried sheep, here's an idea, walk it the fuck elsewhere and save everyone the risk? Not difficult it is?

Dont be horrible to the fur parents! Their fur babies should be allowed to walk wherever they like regardless of the risks.

Honestly it makes me so mad, the lack of responsibility some (actually many) people take for their dog.

I have a gundog breed. He once chased loose deer. Since then I have spent months desensitizing him to deer. As a puppy he barked at sheep Shen we walked past. A local field walk we do has a footpath through with sheep in some months of the year. Whilst it was empty I spent hours teaching heel walking through there. Then sitting at the gate watching sheep and rewarding calm. Then going in the field and getting the heel past the sheep.

Now he doesn't bat an eyelid, but I'd never, ever let him off lead nearby.

The dog's behaviour is YOUR job to train. It's utter laziness. So many people comment on how well behaved mine is.....er yes. I've spent hours and hours (and a lot on money) on training him!!! It's my job to do so as his owner. If you aren't prepared to do the same you probably shouldn't own a dog.

Do you know any farmers? Yes there might be a few (tiny minority) who are trigger happy. But the rest, they only shoot when they really have to, IE birds or rabbits destroying their crops. Most don’t enjoy doing it.

Dogs are very rarely shot by farmers, dogs attack sheep every single day. Dogs don’t even need to attack sheep to kill them, it is very common for sheep to be frightened to death basically. They abort the lambs from the fright of being chased. I think dog owners are a much bigger problem (I have a dog before anyone starts). Not farmers who deal with enough crap from the general public as it is.

A farmer is very unlikely to shoot your dog. What a lot of fuss about nothing.

Sheep can’t defend themselves against dogs so the farmer has to.
I lost 6 lambs in one incident last year. A spaniel had got into the field while it was being walked off lead and chased my sheep until 6 lambs collapsed with exhaustion. 3 were dead by the time I got there, the other 3 died within 15 mins.
The dog owner was just leaving as I arrived, she was running away while shouting at me that it wasn’t her fault, her dog didn’t touch any sheep. It might not have touched any but it ran them to their deaths.
The dog owner wasn’t traced, I was too busy phoning my vet and frantically trying to save my lambs and ewes to see where she went.
What upset me the most was that the dog owner didn’t care, she wouldn’t have informed me of the incident, I just happened to be coming to check my flock at the right time. Her attitude was that it wasn’t her fault. It was her fault. Hers alone.
Farms are not playgrounds or recreational areas. They are business premises. My livelihood is at stake when dogs are worrying my livestock, not to mention the impact on my mental health.
Don’t walk your dog around farms and livestock. Plenty other places to walk your dog.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/03/14/farmer-shoots-dog-dead-in-front-of-owner-to-stop-it-worrying-sheep-16272780/#:~:text=The%20pet%20broke%20free%20of,the%20farmer%20shot%20it%20dead.

" The facts available " you have used are taken from British red top tabloid newspapers, a joke known world wide for twisting the facts to create a good story.

I trust the courts way more than I trust these " newspapers".

I think this is yet another thread about farmers and guns that isn't going the way the OP imagined.

"Trigger happy" FFS.

Wonder what their next farmers.gun thread will be?

The vast majority of life stock farmers will have a gun as they need it to quickly and humanely put down animals who are gravely ill. They don’t want to wait hours for a vet so do it themselves. Considering all those guns, very few dogs are being shot by farmers so I don’t think you need to worry OP.

I also see so many people unable to control their dogs that it surprises me more aren’t shot. People are fucking idiots.

https://www.farminguk.com/news/cotswold-farmer-shoots-dog-dead-after-it-injures-sheep-and-kills-lamb_48953.html

The stories I have found are spread by a few years. No idea how many dogs are shot by farmers but they can do it.

So the moral of the story is never have your dog off lead near livestock and don't trespass. Just common sense really isn't it?

@changedforanswer No idea how many dogs are shot by farmers but they can do it.

Of course they can do it! No one is disputing that they do. They are allowed by law to shoot any dog which is running about near their livestock.

If a farmer shoots a dog then it's the owner's fault for allowing it to worry livestock.

Better a dead dog than dead lambs

You’d think so wouldn’t you?

Unless criminally reckless, no farmer is shooting dogs on secure short leads.

Still not sure why people don't train their dogs to be safe with live stock - I took mine on a 1 day training course. He ignores them now, plus walks to heel

OP, it's very, very, very unlikely that a 'trigger happy farmer' is going to come on to your property and kill your dog. It's much more likely, however, that you (or numerous other dog owners) are going to go onto their property and cause the death of their sheep. Really it's the poor farmers that need to be concerned about death and injury to their animals, not you.

Stay away from livestock, keep your dogs on a lead, the owners are always to blame. Keep clear of farmland unless you on the public highway really.
The problems much worse post lockdown, many more new dog "owners" with little between the ears.

There are many public rights of way that cross farmland. It might be very convenient for farmers to exclude the public, but the public have every right to use footpaths etc, though of course their dogs should be under control.