Dog & Sheep Solutions?

[Baabaabaddog]

Late teen DS has just called me, this evening he was walking the dog in the dark, basically she ran away and chased some sheep.
Son says when he got to her she was chasing a lamb round in circles, playing how she does with dogs. When it laid down, she laid down next to it and licked it.
I’m relieved that she didn’t go to attack it, however I’ve also been involved in livestock / farming / countryside living so am fully aware of the damage this can still do.

I’ve been training her by walking through sheep regularly, and going back and forth past them multiple times so desensitisation. I correct any pulling or interest etc, but not really praising her or doing anything to get her attention other than walking on.
The other thing I do is sit and stay with her near sheep in fields, and stand back, with a long line (very securely!) on.

I wanted to ask for suggestions of what else you would do now?
I know full well she will now be super high alert and this will have put my hours and hours of training backwards!
BTW she’s a Doberman and can spot something moving from half a mile away and she can sniff out any animal in undergrowth.

I have access to a sheep farm. I was thinking of putting her in a pen with quite a few sheep and lambs? On a long line, sit and stay and then walking round. Even feeding her in there. Then back out in the fields and get them to run past her?

Thanks for any advice.

@SoundsLikeALlama
The thing is, you can spend years training a dog not to chase prey but you will never be able to trust a dog that has disappeared for over half an hour chasing a deer. You could very well end up with a dead dog, they will stop at nothing when in a chase and could be hit by a car or just become lost never to be found.

I would rather startle my dog with an e-collar than have them attached to a lead and be constantly worrying about what we may come across on our walks.

Really, all it takes is for you not to be paying attention and your dog has spotted something, lead gets yanked from your hand and your dog is off chasing game or livestock. Who gives a crap about an excuse 'sorry the lead got tugged from my hand' when your dogs been shot. Real animal welfare is clear communication with our pets and keeping them and others safe from harm. Sheep being ripped open by out of control dogs that have chosen to ignore the bit of sausage being waved in-front of their faces in favour of chasing and killing is a very real issue. Humans tend to put their emotions before their pets actual welfare, it just feels better to be kind all of the time and put absolutely zero boundaries in place for our pets.

• don't let your dog off a lead near livestock
• focus on your recall training

The problem many Doberman owners face is that the breed very often only has loyalty to one person in a family group. So you may achieve excellent recall but your daughter may not. Therefore it is madness to let the dog off a lead near stock.

‘Sorry my collar failed or went out of range. Or fell off’ etc etc

Dogs with their primary prey drive instinct triggered will ignore pain. It’s what they are programmed to do and I’ve seen it first hand. So you may well find when the chips are down and a chase in in progress that your collar is far less useful than a physical restraint like a lead.

Sheep being ripped open by out of control dogs that have chosen to ignore the bit of sausage being waved in-front of their faces in favour of chasing and killing is a very real issue

Nobody's saying otherwise.

But stop pretending eCollars are some magic solution that everyone else is too soft to use 🙄

Dogs that are truly "in the zone" won't pay the slightest bit of attention to their collars. In countries that use invisible electric fencing, dogs are forever running over the boundary to chase things 🤷‍♀️

Many end up injured due to ignoring their collars - the thrill of the chase is just too much fun.

And that's not the only issue. What if the battery fails? Or the dog is too far away from you for the shock to be effective? What if the dog pulls it's collar off because it's gotten stuck in a fence or a bush?

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts e-Collars aren't magic and I have never claimed they are but they are the single most effective tool we have. I have used e-collars and I have never had a battery fail, my dog just doesn't chase things, she has never gone out of range because who the hell gets a dog to allow it to range over half a mile from you? Really? My dog doesn't get into the chase which is key and is the result of months of effective e-collar training. Many of the 'issues' you have presented regarding ecollar use are relevant to using any tool.

Having an e-collar isn't like getting a pass to allow you to let your dog go and run as far away from you as it can, contrary to popular belief.

who the hell gets a dog to allow it to range over half a mile from you? Really?

If a dog is on a scent and ignoring all attempts at recall, it could easily run to get to over half a mile away. I don't know many humans who can run as fast and as far as a dog!

My point was - if the dogs' recall is going to fail, it doesn't matter what "tool" you're using - it will ignore you zapping it's collar just as it will ignore sausages, a whistle or its' owners call.

I'm with IngGenius and also could there be any sheep dog training experts you could ask?

You mentioned using dog trainers; could you get one in for this?

I'm saying that in addition to knowing where sheep are and keeping on lead.

yes ours is trained as a scent dog and will go for miles until otherwise told not to! but no, he's normally not miles away from me at all. This was an isolated incident where I stumbled out of shock and dropped the whistle.

my point was really that even with an extremely well trained dog, you should not have them off the lead around cattle (unless it's your farm!) so training them to be good around sheep is fine but even if they are trained like that, they should still be on a lead

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts I completely disagree. Sausages and positive reinforcement are completely different than training a dog with an E-collar. Both should be used together but the E-collar if used correctly teaches them that chasing is a bad thing. The treat teaches them coming back is a good thing. You don't let the dog get 'on the scent' you interrupt them before they engage to that level. The OP would do better to work with a proper trainer who can give her an expert opinion. If sausage was as effective as an E-collar no one would use an E-collar on hunting dogs....

You can't always stop a dog getting onto a scent or starting the chase - no matter how well trained you think they are 🤷‍♀️

Some dogs go from being attentive to deaf in a matter of seconds - no amount of distraction or teaching will prevent them from running off from you.

Some breeds will be easy to train off the scent or the chase, for others it's almost impossible. There's a reason certain dogs are bred to do certain jobs after all

Your dog has clearly demonstrated that she is not safe to be off lead near sheep. Keep her on a short lead if you must walk her near sheep, and ideally find someone else. Very, very few dogs other than well-trained sheepdogs, are safe to be near sheep.

*somewhere else!

@bluedabadeedabada and @Sairk I agree with you. E-collars, well used, can be invaluable.