Dog & Sheep Solutions?

[Baabaabaddog]

Late teen DS has just called me, this evening he was walking the dog in the dark, basically she ran away and chased some sheep.
Son says when he got to her she was chasing a lamb round in circles, playing how she does with dogs. When it laid down, she laid down next to it and licked it.
I’m relieved that she didn’t go to attack it, however I’ve also been involved in livestock / farming / countryside living so am fully aware of the damage this can still do.

I’ve been training her by walking through sheep regularly, and going back and forth past them multiple times so desensitisation. I correct any pulling or interest etc, but not really praising her or doing anything to get her attention other than walking on.
The other thing I do is sit and stay with her near sheep in fields, and stand back, with a long line (very securely!) on.

I wanted to ask for suggestions of what else you would do now?
I know full well she will now be super high alert and this will have put my hours and hours of training backwards!
BTW she’s a Doberman and can spot something moving from half a mile away and she can sniff out any animal in undergrowth.

I have access to a sheep farm. I was thinking of putting her in a pen with quite a few sheep and lambs? On a long line, sit and stay and then walking round. Even feeding her in there. Then back out in the fields and get them to run past her?

Thanks for any advice.

Like I said - I walk my labs in certain fields (enclosed with gates between them). I pause and check each field before entering but I’ve never seen any sheep in these fields in 12 years. He is on lead on all other places.

We had a very high prey drive GSD who would happily have had a sheep if he could have gotten to it. We tried all sorts until we worked with a trainer who used an E-collar. Honestly the shock isn't that bad. I tried it on myself! It worked beautifully and in a relatively short time frame. After than you only had to use the vibrate feature. That dog had 10 years of off lead walks wherever we went because I knew I could control him. I could have kept him on the lead but his quality of life was hugely enhanced over all those years of off-lead walks. A lead isn't a guarantee either. People trip, dogs slip collars etc because the world isn't perfect. I think the OP is responsible in looking for a solution to train her dog. A mauled sheep is a horrendous thing and I'd trade it for a few zaps personally especially on a dog who lives on a farm.

I was thinking of putting her in a pen with quite a few sheep and lambs? On a long line, sit and stay and then walking round. Even feeding her in there. Then back out in the fields and get them to run past her?

Don't be ridiculous; no farmer will ever permit that.
All it would do, is intensify the dog's interest in sheep and convince her that approach/ contact is permitted. and encouraged.

IME, (lifetime owner of collies , living surrounded by sheep farms for 40 years) not all dogs have "an eye for sheep" but for those who do that intense instinct never goes away. The only answer is that the dog is never, ever allowed any contact with or movement towards sheep. You will never be able to let it off lead within sight of sheep. When sheep are in view, keep the dog very close on a very short fixed lead, (not an extending one) and every time she looks at the sheep, say firmly. "NO. Leave it."

You tend to be able to see them?!

Leads off in public places, beaches fields or woods. It really is very easy to avoid livestock.

@Janiie you've never come across livestock where they shouldn't be? There is a very good video I saw actually of a sheep well concealed in a woods, escaped from its field. Someone had come across it when they weren't expecting to.

They seemed to want advice on how to get a dog to ignore sheep. A lead is the answer.

Also, leads don't equal dogs ignoring sheep. They mean you have some level of control, yes. But simply popping your dog on a lead doesn't mean you dog ignores sheep.

@bluedabadeedabada I was one saying I can't let my 3 off the lead ( all terrier mixes )
For off lead I pay for them
To go to a dog park locally
And am not being smarmy or nasty saying I keep them on a lead by any means I just know they will chase and attack , I hire the dog park because I feel they deserve that time to run together and be "free" as it were safely away from hurting anything or being hurt , it's glorious playing with them and watching them run round crazy I just no their recall off lead around other dogs and small animals would be shit

'Also, leads don't equal dogs ignoring sheep. They mean you have some level of control, yes'

Yes they give you the owner control, correct. That's the point.

Some breeds of dog won't ignore certain things whatever you do.

@Janiie sorry I may have misread what you said, you did say 'They seemed to want advice on how to get a dog to ignore sheep. A lead is the answer.' Didn't you?

I lost 4 sheep to a dog attack 3 years ago. And a lot of the damage wasn't initially obvious. It took a few weeks for the damaged limbs to become apparent apart from the one that had over 40 bites. And she survived the longest though it ended her fertility and so she had to go too,

A springer and a terrier did it. Both farm dogs and used to livestock.

Have you been and told the farmer in question? Because I'll bet there was more damage then a licked lamb.

Also, leads don't equal dogs ignoring sheep. They mean you have some level of control, yes. But simply popping your dog on a lead doesn't mean you dog ignores sheep.

As long as the dog doesn't chase or lunge, it doesn't matter if they don't ignore them completely.

Ultimately dogs are triggered by movement and sheep are flighty prey animals - even the best behaved/trained dog could be triggered by a sheep running away - that's why you use a lead.

I just think even on a lead I’m keen to avoid going through fields with sheep if I can avoid. Most people know their local routes and can avoid sheep and lambs?

If it was unavoidable I’d have my dog on a very short lead, distract with treats and walk nowhere near them. Even the presence of a dog in a field can stress them I read?

A dog barking or reacting to sheep is enough to cause sheep to run even if on a lead. The dogs should ignore the sheep or not be walked near livestock

A dog needs to be calm around sheep to prevent shock death and miscarriage in sheep. An excited dog on a lead will cause the sheep to run

A lead is not always the total answer.

Dogs need to be trained how to behave around livestock or otherwise be kept away from them not just on a lead.

In many parts of the country it is extremely easy to avoid sheep.

Delatron at last the word of reason

But the reality is that it's impossible to guarantee that dogs will always ignore sheep - no matter how "well trained" you think they are. It's also impossible to avoid sheep in many areas - especially as they're notorious for escaping and ending up where they shouldn't be. Around here, they're always ending up in caravan parks, on beaches and on roads.

I know what you're saying - on lead doesn't necessarily mean under control - but at least a lead ensures that your dog can't run off amongst the flock and get itself shot. After all, you can't legislate against dogs barking or pulling on the lead.

I think most people would do the same.

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts no one is saying don't put the dog on a lead though. Everyone agrees on that. It's just even on a lead dogs can be threatening so they also need to be trained to ideally walk to heel near livestock. Mine was a bugger for stalking as a puppy, and if you've seen a collie going into that pancake stage in the floor you know the lead doesn't help you much then, nor will treats because sheep are the fluffiest most exciting things in the world. Obviously she never chased anything but from a sheep POV she must have looked like a fucking psycho and put them right off their dinner. So we worked hard to train her to walk to heel by making ourselves super interesting so this stopped. If you live in sheep farming territory it's a sensible thing to do to improve the usefulness of the lead NEVER replace it.

@OllytheCollie of course you train alongside the lead, but the way OP was talking she was expecting her Doberman to somehow become totally bombproof around sheep.

It's never going to happen 🤷‍♀️

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts on that we totally agree!

I think you have two ways of approaching this; Make the sheep as boring as possible, teach really good obedience with everything (not just sheep).

The problem with making sheep boring is if your dog has such a high prey drive that might be impossible, like teaching a greyhound a rabbit is boring!

I went to a dog training talk once about recalling your dog when they chase things (it was years ago so excuse me if I get some details wrong) so what the man said was to always make yourself more exciting to the dog than what he is chasing.

For starters you need two balls (hopefully your dog likes balls but if not then two squeaky toys or something), have the dog on a long line throw one ball, whistle or use your recall word (a separate word to the dogs name, only to be used in this situation) then when the dog returns to you throw the other ball or toy for him to chase and catch. The idea is that the first ball would always be left (don't ever let him get it) and the reward is to chase and catch the second ball.

This should be repeated over and over until it can be reliably done off lead. Then hopefully it can be used in a prey situation but what he did say is that once the prey drive kicks in it is almost impossible to recall the dog as they literally go deaf so you have to have your wits about you to do the emergency recall the second your dog sees the prey. And obviously always carry the special ball which should never be used under other circumstances to increase its value to the dog. Hope that makes sense!

Oh please don't do this 😱

Oh and the second ball always gets thrown in the opposite direction.

Yesterday was April 1st so I did wonder whether it was a troll April 1st post, but then noticed it was posted late the day before.

My last dog chased sheep. We were walking in the Brecon Beacons and she got through a fence. Husband had to wrestle her to the ground to stop her. We had no idea who the sheep belonged to so we couldn’t tell them. After that she was triggered by sheep several fields away!

I spent years slowly desensitising her and in the end we could walk through sheep with minimal reaction. This was a dog who lived with cats with zero issues and competed in agility to a very high level as well as obedience. Not an untrained dog. Moderate prey drive.

Yes you can train enough to allow them to be calm but it’s a very long haul and very difficult. Sheep are stupid. They do stupid things. When out walking we always had a long line to clip on in fields where there may be livestock or we couldn’t see a good way ahead. She never came close again and we walked thousands of miles in rural areas. It became habit.

I can trigger sheep to run without a dog just by walking through them sometimes. So I don’t think necessarily being completely neutral is necessary. But they do need to be very much under control and away from them as best you can.

One of the problems you will have now is that he has the taste for it

My cocker had absolutely bomb proof recall (so I thought) and was completely whistle trained. And then we were walking through a wood and a small deer jumped out of the bushes in front of him and startled both me and him. I fumbled and dropped the whistle and by the time I found it and looked up, the dog and deer had gone and there was no coming back! Took me 30 mins to get him - he did recall to the whistle but he had run over a few kms in that time and he was so excited. I had never seen him in that state before.

The few months after that he was chasing everything that moved - birds, ducks, squirrels you name it. But chasing to the point that he was obsessed with it. It's like it triggered his prey drive. We've had to go back to square one with him and recall and unfortunately he's not allowed off lead near any rivers because we know he would chase ducks straight into the water.

We're about a year past the event now and it's a lot better but he still gets that look in his eye and you have to make sure you distract him before he turns! Good luck.

I definitely would not have yours off his lead again around livestock though.