Has anyone managed to fix reactivity/aggression to visitors?

[3AndADog]

I’m feeling so down in the dumps about this. DDog is 18 months, and amazing out and about. Confident and friendly, great recall, good lead walking, we have brilliant walks.

at home she’s a work in progress - quite barky at random noises and a little terror for stealing things/counter surfing. a bit of separation anxiety. But the real issue is visitors. Not all visitors, specifically 12 year old boys who are frightened of her. She’s great with most kids. All of my friends are fine. Tradesmen are fine. She always barks at the door but once she’s been indulged with a hello she is anyone’s friend. But my eldest son can’t have his friends over and he’s devastated. She lunges, barks, growls. And it doesn’t stop for the duration of their visit. Even when they go upstairs she paces around barking and looking for them. She’s ok with some of his friends but if they express just an ounce of nervousness she freaks out. She’s never bitten but she gets so over aroused and I have never really thought she would but today I genuinely worried that it might happen.

So This evening we had a boy over and the dog was just terrified, I tried lots of treats, she was on the lead, off the lead, on again, but the boy just kept edging/running away from her and jumping and staring at her with that wide eyed look that scared kids do, and he just looked so frightened poor kid. My son is mortified. She’s only like this with about 3 or 4 of his close friends and the only common thread is that they are all scared of her. But you can’t tell a terrified child to get down and say a nice cuddly hello to a barking snarling dog they are afraid of! I feel like the kids childhoods are being restricted too much by this behaviour.

we are seeing a behaviourist remotely and she has suggested we train her to be on a bed in the garden when visitors arrive and gradually move her safe space/bed closer and then into the house as she gains confidence. Lots of treats and conditioning, along with lots of confidence building games and training calm in the house outside of the situation so that she is prepared with the tools when a visitor does arrive. But I just can’t see this working. It seems like such a real fear in her. No matter how far she is from the visitor all she wants to do is run right up to them. How is being so far away going to help her differentiate between people she likes and people she is scared of? She is on daily anxiety meds already and has situational meds which we are trying out, she had had some this evening preemptively and she was sleeping soundly when they arrived, but clearly did not work a jot in the situation.

on the one hand, I spend 95% of my time happy with our life with this dog but when we have incidents like this I feel so anxious and desperate and I can’t see a way out. I can’t imagine her ever changing and I want my kids as they grow up to be bringing their friends home regularly, I want their home to be their safe place, as it should be!

please can I have some positive success stories? Sorry if I sound melodramatic. I’m really upset and shaken.

In this situation why don't you just put her in the bedroom or another space where she can calm down and also not scare them.

12 year olds who are scared of her and not following instructions are just going to make her stress worse. I would just remove the dog and reduce any further stress/ bite risk

Some dogs just have triggers, mine doesn't like strangers touching his head, the way I combat this is to tell strangers not to touch his head. Not that he would bite but he does growl and weights 60kg and people are scared of him. If I am concerned that the person can't follow instructions I put him in my bedroom where he can relax and not be stressed out.

Also what breed is she? Is she a guarding breed? These tend to be on high alert at home which will not be helping and at 18 month will be beginning to show natural behaviour (I.e guarding the home)

I have Rottweilers and can confirm they are naturally guarding and naturally wary of strangers in their space.

She’s a dreaded cockapoo.

the problem with your solution (which sounds in theory great) is that she doesn’t really have a room when she can calm down other than the lounge/kitchen. Where visitors go first. We’ve had separation anxiety so in that situation, being away from me would be just as bad I think. Plus she’s not allowed upstairs into bedrooms (she steals everything!!) but I have thought about conditioning the utility room to be a safe hideaway space for her on these occasions. But putting her in a room to calm down on her own is a bit of an alien concept for us at the moment. Possibly one I can aspire to though!

Plus in another room she would still hear people arriving, and when she hears the door go all she wants to do is charge at it! I wondered if not being able to see who’s arriving might be more frightening for her?

Personally in your situation I would find a place for her to be away from visitors. Puppies/ adolescent dogs have two main fear periods although this is usually over by around 14 months this could be part of the problem.

Giving her treats when she's freaking out acting like that also won't be helping the best thing to do is completely ignore, by reacting or giving treats your enforcing her behaviour.

It's harder with children as they will often not follow instructions well. If it was an adult I would say have her on the lead both is you sit down and completely ignore her behaviour and when she calms down give her a treat and praise on repeat but again with children this ain't really an option.

Under no circumstances is it a good idea for your sons friends to try to hug her.

Cocker spaniels are also famous for resource guarding I know she's a mix but is it possible she is resource guarding you?

I didn’t mean he should hug her. But when people walk confidently towards her, allow her to sniff them then offer her a hand to sniff, she soon turns her fear into love. I would never ask a scared child to do this though.

I’d considered the resource guarding thing but she just doesn’t do it with everyone. Only a few scared 12yr old boys. I am definitely going to think about training her to be in the utility room. I hadn’t considered the negative effects of giving her treats - I thought the idea was that I should be conditioning her to associate the bad thing with a good feeling (the treats). I feel like an idiot sat there shovelling treats in to her while she barks like an idiot. I just get so flustered. When imm training calm at home I do just what you said - wait for calm sitting or a voluntary down, then drop a treat quietly near her nose. Oh I just feel such a wreck about this whole thing. Thank you so much for your input

We had this with our dog when younger. She was very anxious around anyone anxious around her. Admittedly she never showed aggression but she is a collie so she would do the freaky stare they do at anyone who looked nervous which obviously made them more nervous...

Your behaviourists solution is roughly what we did. Counter conditioning her response to anxiety so if she stayed calm and focused on us near a nervous person she got loads of treats. But at the same time always setting up success. Only practice this when safe, e.g. if you have her on a lead in the garden with one person who makes her anxious, give her a cue like settle abd loads of treats, and step it back or stop if she starts to growl. Your anxious volunteer (in my case it was my middle child, but why not ask your son's mates to help) needs to look anxious but know they are actually safe and can walk away at any time.

In the house is harder. You do need to find a crate or other safe space to separate her from anything making her anxious when it is happening or have two adults manage the situation so her fear isn't increased. I appreciate house layout may make this hard but if it's temporary it is worth doing.

Our girl was worst during adolescence and is pretty chill around everyone now at 2.5. And she has a solid settle so I just tell her bed or settle when we have visitors.

I can't guarantee this will work. But it's definitely a slow and steady thing. Dogs are phenomenally sensitive to our body language which is why nervous people make them anxious too. Show her you are confident she can handle these situations and reward even the smallest behaviour which shows she can do it and you are setting her up for success.

Don't feel like an idiot having dogs a massive learning curve.

I think she may be resource guarding actually. They are frightened of her so she is jumping on the back of their fear and becoming more powerful.

For example when training a dog to guard you would ask a person to approach the fence/ dog, when the dog barks at them they "run off" giving the dog more confidence at their "success" She has learnt that 12 year old boys are likely cowards and will back away from her giving her what she wants.

Personally every time she does it I would remove her from the room put her in the utility room for 5 minutes and then try again as soon as she does it back out. Bit like supernanny and naughty step.

Also get a handle on her charging at the door that will not be helping. Get someone to ring the doorbell have her on the lead let her loose her shit and once she calms down give her a treat and only then go and answer the door.

Do this in repeat so that when someone rings the door she literally looks at you. All of my dogs do this.

How is her basic training does she know all her commands? Are they consistent?

Btw I am absolutely not a dog trainer so of course maybe get one in but make sure they are reputable there's a lot of idiots about.

Can the treats!

you’re rewarding bad behaviour.

dog needs to be secured when children visit. If they bite it’s them that will need put down.

I know you say your house isn’t set up for it but I would prioritise fixing that asap.

She should not be getting attention or reward for behaving this way. You priority should be the safety of the children in your home first and the happiness of the dog second. its tough if she doesn’t like being separated that’s what happens to aggressive dogs!

Make sure she knows you’re displeased, growl at her and march her out of the room immediately on first offence.
Don’t let her out til the kids are gone.
She will soon work out that growling and snarling gets her put away and no attention as opposed to loads of treats!

@SomePosters

This is not very helpful, if someone's toddler threw a tantrum and didn't behave properly you wouldn't be labelling them as an "aggressive child" the dogs and owner need to learn too.

She isn't necessarily aggressive either she just needs some help which the OP is trying to provide.

We have a spaniel with ptsd after being hit by a car. His blood pressure was so low that they couldn't sedate him initially so he was in a lot of pain with 2 broken legs and open wounds that had to he flushed without GA. He is now understandably terrified of people and can be a bit bitey with people he doesn't know.

He's on a lead and with me when visitors come and I make a point of saying please give the dog space. Friends of DC don't get to come into the same space as him as I'm not risking it so he gets shut in the utility room with the radio on and a chew. I would maybe try similar in your situation? The other thing to do would be to try crate training and have a crate in a room upstairs or out the way. Classic FM, long lasting chews like frozen kongs and a pile of your dirty bedding or something that smells strongly of you will help with staying calm while away from you.

Please ignore all of this "advice" 😬

Don’t worry, I will never growl at my dog!!

ok I’m going to work on making her feel secure and safe in the utility room. As for her charging at the door, yes that is something I’m already working on and in the day time she’s brilliant at staying on her bed when the door goes as long as I’m sat with her keeping her there with intermittent treats and getting her attention on me. We haven’t progressed from there but I’m confident that’s going in the right direction. The problem is that the bed is in the room that the visitors come straight into, so once she lays eyes on someone they scares her, it’s game over.

@OllytheCollie thank you for this reassuring post - it all makes sense but just seems like a huge journey to get to where we want to be. I don’t feel like I can ask the kids in question to be guinea pigs in our training though, and their parents probably won’t understand gentle training methods, but I’ll speak to one of them and see what he thinks. I have also thought I might introduce them to her out on a walk where she seems totally nonplussed, then hopefully once she gets to know them out and about she won’t worry about them coming into her home?

I’ve woken up feeling slightly less desperate and anxious about it - obviously things seem so much worse in the moment, but its the thing I need to address most of all and I struggle with my sense of urgency taking over any logical thinking!

@ShadowsShadowsShadows i like the idea of giving her dirty bedding while in the utility room, thanks for that. I have always been a bit reluctant to give her my clothes as she chews them but bedding I can handle!

Your dog is scared. Getting her to face her just fears isn’t going to work. Your behaviourist gave you good advice, you need to follow it and keep at it. Don’t even think of trying to introduce her to something she’s afraid of in the hope she’ll get used to it - just give her time and patience and space and yes, in time she may get there. No 12 year old boys for a while.

Oh don’t worry I am definitely following the advice given to us. My issue is that keeping her away from them is hard. Not just because of house layout but because she does everything she can to run Towards them - if she’s in another room then she tries to get out, will bark at the door, scratch, try to get over a stair gate etc. But I will keep ploughing on. It’s funny how she is fine with younger kids and adults. A friend wondered if she was resource guarding my son, but she’s fine with a few of his friends. The confident ones who aren’t scared of dogs!!

We have a collie and a DS who is 10. She isn’t keen on visitors although tolerates adults who completely ignore her but is not a big fan of children in general. So we only have his friends round when the dog isn’t there. (DH will take her out for a big walk etc) We are also trialling shutting her in the kitchen so she only has access to the garden, if his friends pop over briefly. Sometimes I wish we had a soppy golden retriever who loves everyone, but in pretty much every other way she is the perfect dog so we manage it. (Obedient, affectionate, no separation anxiety, goes to doggy daycare etc) My anxiety around the dog and children can be easily triggered as she nipped a family member’s child when she was 6 months as we didn’t read her signs of stress properly and I was inexperienced and complacent. Thankfully it was a tiny scratch and no long term harm done. I now spend way too much time over-thinking her body language, but I never ever want to be in the situation again where she nips someone as it was so traumatic for everyone.

Dogs do pick up on people's body language - there was an old episode of It's Me or the Dog where a bulldog would jump and nip at one member of the household, but nobody else. Victoria watched everyone's interactions and the person being jumped up at/nipped was the one who was tense and nervous and flighty with their movements. Everyone else just behaved normally and so the dog did as well.

It's also why reactive dogs often behave worse for their owners than they do for (eg) dog walkers or trainers. If you're worried your dog will react, the tension goes down the lead and the dog picks up on it - whereas a professional may not worry and therefore the tension isn't there to begin with.

However, like you say, you can't just tell someone not to be nervous, especially when there's a dog growling, snarling and lunging at them - so it's really all about environmental management, as difficult as that can be.

I do like the idea of meeting them on a walk and entering the house as a group - it can work very well for dogs who are territorial or nervous of visitors. I would start by introducing them at a distance (eg. opposite sides of the road) and only bringing the dog closer if she's calm and happy. Any sign of fear or aggression and she needs to move away again - don't punish her, just take her away from the situation. Treats and/or praise for calm and neutral behaviour.

By giving her treats you haven't rewarded the behaviour. It's an emotion, not a behaviour and therefore rewarding it (or not) won't make any difference. What you've been trying to do is counter condition her emotional response, which is great, but it has to be done before she gets to that stage - by adding distance from the trigger and also preventing the reaction from happening.

Take a lot at Absolute Dogs, they advocate training for the situation, not in it, and there is a visitor protocol to follow. You may need to rearrange your space a bit, use baby gates or a crate, or your utility room may well be ok.

Good luck - we have similar issues, slowly it is improving!

Just seen your last reply OP and it seems you're doing this already - keep on, you'll get there!

@FanGurrl it is absolute dogs we have been using, and seeing a behaviourist from their sister company. I’m pleased to hear you are having some success. Can you point me in the direction of their visitor protocol? I get so overwhelmed with all the content and don’t know where to start.

It sounds like it might be an idea to get the behaviourist to talk you through the advice given as you sound unsure of why they are advising it and how it will get DDog to change. Once they've done that you may have a clearer idea of whether you want to take that advice.

Seems a pity to be paying for professional advice and then not feel like you can use it, after all!

I know the feeling of bemusement when an expert says "do xyz" without saying WHY (and why it is better than P, Q or R) - sometimes they forget we don't all have the same background and so can't connect the dots!

@3AndADog I'll have a look, see if I can find it....

I’ve just had a really sad conversation with my son, he really wants to invite a new friend over after school but he’s refusing to do it because of the dog, he feels his social life is over and no one will want to be his friend after they’ve met the dog. I’ve suggested meeting them at the bus stop so we can walk back together which I do think would work, but he just doesn’t want to risk any of his friends meeting her.

as for this conditioning at a distance. I will definitely be asking for a more through explanation from the behaviourist. What I can’t get my head around is if we are hiding out in the garden at a distance, she’ll see someone entering the house at a distance but I’m absolutely certain she will go bananas and do anything in her power to get closer to the visitor. They’ll go in the house and even if they go straight upstairs she won’t calm down knowing there is someone in the house that she doesn’t know. I’ll bring her in and she’ll bark and pace until they leave. I genuinely can’t see how we will have any unknown visitors at this rate. The absolute dogs method of training out of the situation I think would say rehearse this with visitors she does know first. So sitting in the garden, watching a known visitor enter the house and then leave again, multiple times, without any interaction with the person. Then I would reduce the distance each time and not allow her any contact with the known visitor at all until she knows to stay away when ever anyone comes to the house. Then start over again with unknown guests. But this seems mean, as she adores my family members and some friends who visit and they love her too, not letting her see them seems wrong?

Your poor child. I'm sure he is right... what friends would be keen to come over to be roared and lunged at, especially when you seem to want to use them as guinea pigs for training this dangerous-looking dog. Your priority surely needs to be human safety and your child's happiness, not trying to remodel the behaviour of this animal who, in case you haven't realised it, is never ever going to be trustworthy. So sorry for him.

In your OP, you state you thought your dog might bite someone. In your 2nd post, you state you didn’t put your dog in another room as it’s banned from bedrooms…

The parents of the visiting children would not want them visiting you if they found out you risked their kids safety over your bedroom remaining intact. That’s irresponsible guardianship. The dog is behaving badly whilst the children are trapped in the same room. The children are around 12. That’s not old enough to handle a reactive dog and I’m not surprised visitors are scared. For their safety, put the dog in another room and try and calm her anxiety. Your dog seems overstimulated and overwhelmed. Could you try taking her on a very long walk beforehand to tire her out and reduce her energy?