Should we be provided the KC names of a puppy's parents before taking the puppy home?

[Redheadedwoman]

This really. We've been in contact with a breeder and we're planning to go and visit and view the puppy next week. We've been told that the puppy will be KC registered and that both the parent's are registered and have been fully health checked. They're not close to us so I can't go and look at the paperwork easily so I've asked for the KC names of the parents before we go so that I can check this against the KC health records but the breeder will not provide the KC names of the parents to me beforehand. This is ringing alarm bells as I feel they're trying to hide something but wanted to check if that is indeed normal practice.

@schloss please could you advise what is wrong with Pets4home website as I am in the process of looking for a puppy? I have looked on the website and what do I need to be concerned about?

Rife with puppy farmers and stolen dogs. Fake photos of animals that aren't the ones being advertised. The absolute safest way of buying a puppy is to research the breed you want carefully and then contact ethical breeders directly, yes you may be put on a waiting list but that is preferable to funding the puppy farming game. It gives you time to research the pedigree lines you want and any decent breeder would be happy to answer questions and show you previous litters/the pedigree paperwork etc

When we got our pup we received a full 'family tree' for him. We had met his parents and some adult relatives at the breeder's house. He could be traced back several generations to quite a famous dog in the breed.

Thanks for this. Turns out they are the breeder of one of the litters here which has the same DoB as the pup we've been talking to them about...but when asked more questions apparently it's from a different litter born on the same day!

Oops. That was supposed to reply to @schloss link to the adverts on the KC website

@bevelino Apologies for the delay in answering your question, I think subsequent posts have already provided some reasoning as to why using certain websites may not be the best place to buy a pup.

Champdogs is a very good place to start, the breeders on there are checked prior to being allowed to advertise including health test results. Detailed information is posted on there however there is a world of difference between Champdogs and Pets4Homes - I don't think anyone on Champdogs would give information which is not correct.

One poster previously mentioned stud book numbers - this is incorrect, I think you may mean registrations numbers? Not all dogs have stud book numbers but all KC registered dogs will have a registration number.

@Redheadedwoman does your post mean you have found a good breeder of TT from the KC where you may be able to get a pup from?

Really? They had two bitches in season at exactly the same time, and they decided to have a litter off both?

Firstly, that stretches credulity. Secondly, even if it is true, rearing one litter properly is a job and a half. To aim to have two sets of pups on the ground at the same time, and another litter only three weeks apart?

Run, don't walk, away from this one.

@Motorina yes I agree, I think I misread the OP post about the litters being at the same breeder. Breeding from 2 bitches at the same time sadly to mean means keep well away from.

@schloss many thanks for your reply and advice.

@bevelino You are very welcome. If you are interested in certain breeds or not quite sure which breed would fit your family, going to Crufts in March to the Discover Dogs area may be helpful. There will be representatives of KC registered breed there, you can meet the breeds and talk to the breed clubs/owners. Each breed will provide detailed info on the breed (good and bad).

My breeder sent me the pedigree after my first email enquiry, before I’d even met the pups or made any sort of decision.

found her on Champdogs, then internet stalked her, found all her show results so knew she spent most of her spare time showing, and her story of one litter every few years as she retired dogs from show and needed a new puppy.

Champdogs is a good site to look at litters in addition to breed clubs. Sounds a lovely litter @Notanotherusername4321

i had the same breed as a kid and found a breed book in the library which had pedigrees of all the last x years Crufts champions which I pored over instead of doing homework.

then on champdogs I noticed the pedigrees linked up a few generations back- she’d used a stud from the original dog’s breeder.

so I emailed her with my nerdy full history of all her dogs and the other dogs breeder, and a dog another family member had which was from another line- way back to the early 80’s 😂

must have terrified her but she let me have a puppy anyway 😂.

@Notanotherusername4321 you sound a perfect possible owner, I am sure every breeder would have welcomed an enquiry from you! I know I would - there is a world of difference in someone calling as you did showing you have taken the time to research info and another person "demanding" information from a breeder when the breeder knows nothing about them. I think most breeders appreciate nerdy enquiries!

I know I certainly have conversations with people which go along the lines of "one of your dogs appears in the pedigree of the first dog I ever owned of the breed" Lovely I say, then your dog must be related to so and so registered dog. "Yes" says the possible new owner, I have always liked this type those lines produce". Well of course with the great great grand sire, he has always produced that type.................and so the conversation goes on, nerdy or knowledgeable probably a bit of both!

walk away. I own two standard poodles..one that has had her litter thru our breeder and her son..who is almost ready to stud. DO NOT buy a puppy that the breeder will not provide details about the parents.. this screams that they have not done the very important tests.

It has been more than a decade since I bought a puppy but it was all very straightforward and upfront. Pedigree, health test results and everything else on the breeder's webpage and I could see the litter of puppies and each individual puppy for sale.

I'm getting a new puppy this year, going back to a small breed that I haven't had for 15 years. I'm going to a breed specific show to meet local breeders in February and to put some feelers out.

I wouldn't touch Pets4Homes personally, there are better ways.

I recently bought a puppy, the first puppy we were going to buy things didn't stack up, she said we couldn't go in the house due to Covid, she couldn't give us and references, when I checked her licence number she was registered for 86 bitches. The second breeder where we got puppy from told us to phone her vet for reference, wouldn't let us have the puppy if we worked full time, the vet reference was outstanding, she was eccentric, probably better with drugs than people, we had to sign a contract saying if we didn't want him we had to let her know and return him to her first. He is KC club registered and she gave us 5 weeks insurance for him and told us to call at any time, he is a very chilled dog. So glad we left the first one

Dogs not drugs!

I know I certainly have conversations with people which go along the lines of "one of your dogs appears in the pedigree of the first dog I ever owned of the breed" Lovely I say, then your dog must be related to so and so registered dog. "Yes" says the possible new owner, I have always liked this type those lines produce". Well of course with the great great grand sire, he has always produced that type.................and so the conversation goes on, nerdy or knowledgeable probably a bit of both!

it’s actually a bit freaky how like his ancestor this dog is. Although it’s a longer living breed, we got the first dog 30 years before the second, so maybe 5-10 or so generations? I bloody loved that dog as a kid, which is why I went looking for his original breeder (long since retired) and then came across this lady who had lots of the same dogs in her pedigree history. I knew as soon as I saw him he had the same nature.

@Notanotherusername4321 Some things are just meant to be, it is so lovely when you find another pup which is related to and reminds you of a dog you had as a child. Totally worth all the hard work in finding a good breeder.

You need to know the parents details in advance so you know about the dog you are buying!

I think I have found a reputable KC breeder, but have been asked to Pay £50 (non refundable) to go on their waiting list and £400 deposit. The breeder doesn’t allow home visits until collection of the puppy due to concerns about infection, particularly parvovirus. They have video calls from when the litter is 3weeks. We can meet the puppy parents at collection.

The breeder has 5* reviews on the internet. Is this ok?

Not sure on this one, I would certainly advise visiting the breeder to meet at least the dam, plus visiting the pups about 6 weeks old and then when you go ancd collect the pup. Each breeder is different though but as I say I am not sure on the restrictions they are setting.

The pups will always have a level of immunity from their mother, I am careful when people visit and ask them to wash their hands prior to touching the pups, however I want people to have a pup I feel is suited to their disposition so like seeing the new owners interact with them, so I ensure the bruiser of a pup does not go to a home where the family are more introverted.

I would not rule them out but I would also investigate them a bit further with the breed club possibly. Are the internet reviews on their own website?

Sorry if I sound doom and gloom, not trying to be.

@schloss thank you so much for your reply. I am just a tad worried about being placed in a waiting list and paying a £400 deposit without even seeing the puppy in real life. Obviously the video they show could be any video from previous litters.

Please can I message you privately with the name of the breeder so that you can let me know what you think?

I have never paid to go on a waiting list nor have I paid a deposit until I have seen the puppy in person (4-6 weeks is usual for a visit, IME). It's also potentially not a great sign that both parents are there - there's not many breeders who will have two unrelated and perfectly complementary dogs in their ownership. Possible but worthy of further investigation. Where are the reviews posted?