Will my Frenchie really only live til 6 years ?

[Jessiesthedog]

I spoke with a breeder today who suggested my girl would live til 6 max. I was quite taken a back

@SirSniffsAlot wow those pictures really do show the difference don't they! The second dog actually looks like a dog rather than a squashed alien.

Mine is nearly 7, has only ever needed a vet once and that was for an eye condition. He does have a more tradition longer nose though. The flat faced ones are knackered.

Nose length in your pic @DogHairHereAndThere is much better, but please please tell me your dog had been running VERY hard immediately before this pic was taken, as his face tells me he is struggling for breathe there.

The tongue out pant with a tongue under tension (see stuck straight out, see the muscle under the tongue and the curled tip) is a sign of that, as is are the wrinkles at the back of the cheeks, where his mouth is open and commisure drawn right back.

For a dog that has just exerted itself really hard, thats normal for a short while but if it's happening whilst your dog is walking at a normal human pace, or just trotting about in a relaxed fashion (or worse still lying around doing nothing) its a significant problem.

Your dog also has pinched nares and a fairly short neck and those features will also affect breathing.

I am sure you know all this, but the reality is many people do not, and many people would see your photo and think thats a happy dog, because lips back, mouth open, tongue out = happy dog, right?... and they cannot tell the difference between a relaxed open mouthed smile, and a dog desperately gasping for breath!

There's some good photos that show the difference between 'stressed' and 'relaxed' here eileenanddogs.com/blog/2014/05/30/dog-commissures-smile-happy-stressed/ (Although this is in relation to general stress rather than physical stress, its still useful.. being unable to breathe easily IS stressful, I know from personal experience!)

He had been walking for around 45 minutes on a long line (so running around investigating the woods) - it was a warm day in May. Here are some other pics of him more relaxed.

Don’t get me wrong, I know they’re an unhealthy breed and I’d never get another one - the flat faced ones are terrible and I think the KC need to change their breed standards to ensure longer nose etc - I’d sign a petition for that - infact I feel like starting one myself.

Im just posting to try and reassure OP that they don’t always die before the age of 6. I’ve not read the full thread though, does she have a flat faced one?

😂😂😂 docked tails? 🤦‍♀️

Mine doesn’t snuffle or snore either. He starts snuffling after being exercised for a while but not when relaxed.

@ToadSmall

frenchiejourney.com/french-bulldog-tail/

vm.tiktok.com/ZMFka84Fm/
(Tiktok link). What their skulls look like.

Unfortunately the truth behind their tail is not funny for these poor deformed dogs. 🤦🏻‍♀️

It’s why I take a dim view of the Kennel Club and their “breed standards”

they have ruined so many dogs. So much unnecessary suffering

i have avoided bloody KC registered dogs and had mongrels my whole life

No it’s not, but accusing people of docking their tails is like accusing them of cropping their ears.

I know someone who got an incredibly flat faced Persian kitten. The most 3D part of its face is its eyeballs. A mutual friend who is a vet commented on her Facebook post something like "hmm...I really don't like to see them that flat." So she blocked the vet.

Kennel Club breed standards have seriously damaged our breed of dog, a breed of hound that should be in fields all day. Ours is more of a working line and people always comment that they didn't think bassets can be quick and lots of energy, or are as small as she is.

So gorgeous 💙

Same! Mines healthy and happy as are many I know of. Adore mine-couldn’t be more loved and so gentle with all humans and other dogs 💙

From Country living:
10 dog breeds with the shortest life expectancy:

French Bulldog (4.53 years)
English Bulldog (7.39)
Pug (7.65)
American Bulldog (7.79)
Chihuahua (7.91)
Husky (9.53)
Beagle (9.85)
Boxer (10.4)
German Shepherd (10.16)
Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (10.45)

Flat-faced dog breeds, including French Bulldogs and Pugs, have the shortest life expectancy, a new study has found.
According to vets at the Royal Veterinary College, brachycephalic dogs don't live as long due to the increased risk of breathing problems, skin fold infections and spinal disease they face. Despite flat-faced dogs having record-high puppy registrations in 2020, experts are calling people to stop and think before buying a dog with a short snout.
In order to uncover the findings, researchers assessed a random sample of 30,563 dogs from 18 breeds and crossbreeds to see how life expectancy varies between each pup. By looking at dogs that died between 1 January 2016 and 31 July 2020, they were able to uncover which breeds live the longest — and which sadly don't.

There's more to those numbers than meet the eye. Chi's (for eg) can be very long lived indeed.

Which suggest something is bringing that average down. Increased chance of neonatal mortality maybe? That may expliain frenchies who can struggle to give brth naturally (long, complicated births being a risk factor for neonatal death). Ditto bulldogs.

Actually, found it:

"However, the estimated lifespan for French bulldogs is probably an underestimate, O’Neill [the guy leading the study] notes. This is because they are the most popular dog in the UK right now and so there is a huge overrepresentation of younger French bulldogs in the population which is skewing the team’s calculations."

Dogs shouldn't "snuffle" at all. They naturally pant, like cats and horses to cool down and regulate their body temperature. The deformities in the French Bulldog stop them being able to do that effectively.

Snuffling is not natural even if only after exercise and the result of a abnormally narrow throat and compressed nasal passages and a sign the dog is having trouble breathing comfortably. Their restricted airways mean after exercising they cannot pant effectively enough to get cooler air into their lungs to cool down - imagine doing high intensity exercise and not being able to sweat or breath deeply.

I used to know someone when I was a teen who had a genetic condition from birth and couldn't sweat (not PA!), his body was not able to effectively cool itself down and he really suffered during the summers. He could explain his discomfort and it was unpleasant. A frenchie can't.

The figures quoted above don't really mean much, though. They also don't appear to match up with any figures from places like the Kennel Club or any breed societies.

They only assessed 30,000 dogs across 18 breeds/mixes - which is only 1,500ish dog per breed/mix - a tiny sample.

It also doesn't seem to factor in that dogs die of all sorts of things unrelated to their health. They get run over, they get lost and die of exposure, they get fatally injured on walks, they drown, they could get killed in a dog fight - and early death in those circumstances has nothing to do with breed, it's just bad luck and could happen to any dog.

Also, according to the KC, the average lifespan of a beagle is over 12 years, not 9 years as that study claims. For Chihuahuas, it's 17-20 years, not 7.9 years.

So, I'd be interested to know where they got those figures from, how they analysed the data/stats and why they only picked 18 breeds/crosses when there are 222 breeds registered by the KC in the UK alone.

@DogHairHereAndThere

Mine doesn’t snuffle or snore either. He starts snuffling after being exercised for a while but not when relaxed.

Sorry to be pedantic but that means he does snuffle then. Just after exercise.

This is a similar phenomenon to the apparent finding that irreligious people have shorter life expectancies than religious ones. It's caused by the fact that fewer younger people are religious nowadays. Also the myth of left handers dying early, which is because they're now no longer forced to write with their right hand.

It's very clear that some breeds are more likely to die when young eg chihuahuas - but the ones that survive puppyhood will then be likely to have the long lives expected of small breed dogs.

@thelobsterquadrille it's a victim of simplification of the study for a magazine audience.

The study itself wasn't looking for a single average life expectancy in years per breed. It was looking at averages for "how much longer is this dog likely to live" at various ages. Probability of a young death therefore plays an influencing factor when making that assesment at a young age. i.e. it is exactly trying to factor in some of the causes of death you mention but not in a way that results in a single, average lifespan figure.

www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10341-6