Please, please reassure me this can get better

[Iggy1983]

Sorry, it's a long one but please bear with...

We have a 6 month old puppy, Alfie, who we've had since he was 8 weeks.
We'd been talking about getting a puppy for years, really researched the breed and considered all the pros and cons for our family. DH and I have never owned dogs before but realised it would have a big impact on our lives and knew we'd have to make adjustments to our lifestyle which we were fine with.
We took him to puppy socialisation, have done (still doing) puppy training, took him out and about lots from when he was young but I still feel like we've failed him somehow?!!
He's always been quite a nervous boy, backing away from strangers coming towards him and, as he's got older, barking more at strange people/objects/dogs. A few things have happened recently though which have scared me that he may be/become (?) an agressive dog and I'm so down about it all at the moment.
A few weeks ago my MIL was looking after him, he's used to her and was fine up until this point but apparently he acted a little aggressively towards her after she'd tried to pick him up (I realise this probably wasn't the best idea of hers but still..). He has also snarled and lunged at a few other dogs whilst on lead, including today.

We've had a 1:1 with a trainer/behaviourist and he just says Alfie is quite a nervous pup and thinks we need to help build his confidence up but from what he's said it sounds like it'll be a future of us just trying to micro-manage every situation, avoiding certain situations etc. He says dogs are like humans and they're not all going to get on, but how do I deal with this if I don't know which dogs he will be ok with and which not? It's so hard to avoid dogs meeting on lead, so many people just let their dogs approach and Alfie nearly always seems really keen to say hi. I want to give him that opportunity but I'm so worried it'll go wrong. I know dogs can also be a lot more reactive on lead but how can you trust them to meet other dogs off lead if you're unsure of how they'll behave?! I feel so bloody overwhelmed with it all and have spent a lot of today in tears. I knew this would be hard but this feels like a whole other level. I feel like an idiot and totally naive but I'd always anticipated potential issues with toileting, jumping up, separation anxiety, chewing furniture, stuff you can help to train them to deal with and that may be quite testing but not agression. I'd thought of that as an issue you may have with a rescue, who hasn't been socialised and/or has been treated badly by a previous owner, not with a well loved family pet.
Please someone reassure me that this can get better? Because everything I've read seems to suggest it won't and may quite possibly even get worse.
It's having such a negative impact on my mental health and I've spent a lot of today (1st day ofŕ our hols) in tears. I honestly feel right now that if I could go back in time then i would say no to us getting a dog. I hear so many people telling others how amazing their dogs are and how they should get one and they won't regret it and at the moment I would say I've never regretted anything more. He can be such a lovely boy and I really do love him, the kids absolutely adore him, but I feel so desperately sad and don't know what to do.
I know people can sometimes be quite brutal on here and I'm probably asking for trouble writing this but please be kind, I've never reached out like this before and am feeling ridiculously fragile right now as it is.

What sort of dog is he?

Ok, so i can only speak for the breed/dog personality i have (chihuahua/littleprince) BUT at 6 months he started displaying behaviour that has completely stooped by 8 months.
For my pup, 6 months was when he realised he could bark. He never barked before, and all of a sudden he found his voice and barked at every passerby or even inanimate objects on walks. I despaired but kept going and he has completely stopped again now. I read about a 'fear stage' that pups go through - i think 6 months is late - but it deffo sounded like thats what my boy was going through.
Obviously it may not be the case for you, but my pup has been through some massive massive changes through the months and is now settling into being a lovely sweet little dog. Dont give up on them yet. I know its tough times!

You sound like a FAB owner by the way and have done lots of great things by socialising, seeing behaviouralist etc. Also, dont be scared of telling other owners that youre dog is nervous and asking to keep their dogs back, its way more common than you think!

He's a schnauzer x poodle

I think you're just going to have to do different kind of training for a bit to work on maybe getting his attention when passing other dogs using treats etc. I went to dog training classes many years ago very traditional a bit boring but spent a long time passing each other with dogs and keeping them focused on us, no lunging or barking. Even quite reactive dogs got comfortable with it.
You're dog's personality hasn't stopped developing yet, this won't be the final him as he's still learning.

It is hard if you have a reactive dog, my rescue dog is reactive but we've muddled along for 11 years and you still love them when they're not easy but yours is still young and you're a caring and responsible owner just feeling a bit overwhelmed just now. There are fb groups with training tips and support too which tend to be really supportive rather than critical!

@ddeey Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and reassure me. I must admit, I really don't feel like a fab owner just now! :'(
He's always been quite barky (I realise this is very common for a schnauzer!) but his reacting like this to other dogs has really worried me. We're on holiday at the moment and I just don't feel like I can relax and enjoy my time with my family as I feel so stressed worrying about where we'll go, will it be too busy and will there be too many triggers for him, what if an off lead dog runs over and he reacts etc etc.
I'm not sleeping well at the moment as a result which I worry will affect my ability to cope with it all and I so wish I could enjoy my time with my family this holiday but I just can't. I think if I could see into the future, even in a couple of years' time, and know that it improved and that he was a happy, friendly family dog then I could cope so much better. I'm just so scared it will only get worse. I think I've heard there are a few fear stages so it could be that he's going through a later one, although tbh he's always been quite nervy anyway

I recommend joining the Dog Training Advice and Support group on Facebook, they are very helpful. Good luck

@scochran Thank you, I really appreciate the reply. We've done some training getting Alfie to focus on us and I think you're right that we should continue to focus on this. The place we've come away to is just a lot busier than I'd imagined, we only popped to the village briefly yesterday but it was exhausting having to constantly be alert looking for other dogs and getting and maintaining Alfie's attention and it was also hard to manage to keep at a distance where the other dog wasn't close enough that they could approach Alfie.
There were two tiny but very agressive seeming dogs sat with their owners outside a cafe, growling and generally scaring off any dog that went anywhere near. One poor pup looked absolutely petrified trying to get to the water bowl which was near them! We managed to give them a very wide berth but it actually scared me wondering could this be Alfie in the future if we don't manage to help him overcome this now. You're right that he is still learning though, we need to help him gain his confidence and learn to look to us when there are other dogs around.
Thanks again for the reply. I think all this has made me hyper emotional, as I feel quite teary that people are actually bothering to reply to reassure a complete stranger!

There’s no such thing as an aggressive dog btw - it’s a behaviour not a personality. All dogs will behave how we label aggressive, just for some it takes less to trigger it.

Re your MIL, most dogs hate being picked up and while they’ll tolerate it from their owners it’s honestly not uncommon for them to object if other people do it, personally I wouldn’t even class that as an issue, but it’s definitely not linked to him reacting to Dog’s.

And with other dogs, what he’s telling you is that he’s scared of them, the reason you need to micro manage it is to improve it - to teach him that they’re nothing to be worried about because letting him meet lots of dogs is a sure fire way of making it worse.

It’s absolutely fine for a dog not to be an outgoing social butterfly with other dogs, most adult dogs aren’t really, you just need to build up his confidence so he’s ok with them being about, which is usually totally achievable.

My Biy was INSANE until he was about two then bunkers until he was about three. He is now very passive aggressive but not aggressive…although sometimes still has some reactivity in lead.

def do lots and lots and lots of training

also that mix sounds will need a lot of mental stimulation

they do call down though. 18 months around is the e teenage period so hold on for that

but honestly you will totally and utterly love him

pic please. Here is a pic of passive aggression

Oh you poor thing, your nerves sound shot!

I think you need to sort yourself out before you can sort your puppy out! Have a calm day, if that means staying at the accommodation with pup while DH takes the kids out (or vice Versa) do that. I know it's probably not how you planned the holiday, but sometimes adapting is the best option for everyone. I'd spend the day relaxing with Alfie, with nothing to stress either if you out.

Alfie is a schnoodle, not a cane Corso, even if he does growl, bark & react to another dog, nothing terrible is going to happen.

while on holiday, I'd just keep him on a short lead and tell people to keep their dogs away as he's nervous. Any out of control, off lead dogs I'd physically stop them approaching.

Alfie doesn't need to make friends while you're away, he just needs to know you've got his back!

have a look at another training group for when you get home. A controlled environment for him to socialise with other dogs.

he's only a baby, plenty of time to still learn things.

don't stress, I'm sure you'll work it out
🐶 💕

@alsopeggy Thank you

Our dog was like this and still is to a degree, but much better.

Remember that if you tell him off and he gets a negative reaction from you when he barks, he will associate other dogs with negativity and it becomes a vicious circle. Best thing to do is carry tons of food - look up hand feeding if he is kibble fed - and reinforce all positive behaviour.

When mine had a fight with another dog and became very reactive we carried around cheese and every time we saw a dog in the distance we have him cheese (not an ideal choice but he isn't food oriented so had to be super high value) and he began to associate dogs with positivity.

Also, always always be confident to shout out 'please get hold of your dog' to other owners. You don't need to go into why. Don't feel the need to explain. They say 'don't worry, mine is friendly' just say 'mine's not' - I do this even though mine is most of the time, just to make a point and put me back in control.

Most dogs have some breeds they struggle with. Mine is a lurcher and doesn't like schnauzers and collies. He will have his own personality.

I had images of happy beach days with my dog bounding around with every other dog we came across (also never had a dog) but the reality is very different and I was totally blinkered. I almost had to grieve for my expectations. It's ok, it happens to a lot of us. Just remember he is his own dog and with perseverance you will get there.

I also remember reading that if you pull your dog away when they bark, they think their barking was successful, so try and take out lots of treats and reinforce everything good with a sharp ' yes' and / or a clicker, right at the exact moment of success. Literally to the second. Things will get better.

Good luck

You could try a yellow dog lead and harness - many people use that as a symbol that their dogs need a bit of space. Not everyone will know that, but some will and it might help.

You can even buy leads with ‘I need space!’ written all over them: www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/store/

Thank you everyone (sorry, I reply to what I think is the last message and once I do lots more pop up!).
I think you're right @WinterMusings , a calm day is probably what I need as I'm going to be little use to the poor thing if I'm a big anxious mess. Plus I've hardly slept which doesn't help. Maybe a day chilling at the holiday house will help to "reset". I know there's such a thing as "trigger stacking" and I think yesterday was probably too much for Alfie which, in turn, made me feel like he's constantly reacting and panicking that this is life from now on. We actually took him to training in the morning before we left for the holiday and one of the owners let their pup into his space whilst they were on lead (we're told not to let them meet on lead) which Alfie reacted to. I feel like this started it and seems to have made him jumpy for the rest of the day.

Trigger stacking is a thing - one thing then another, half of them we can't see. If my dog meets a schnauzer (there is one on our road) the whole walk is a bit wired.

Trigger stacking definitely a thing. Takes a while for all the cortisol to leave their body once they’ve gotten stressed.

I found pet remedy plug ins to be surprisingly helpful.

@RightsHoardingRaptor I think you're right, I do need to grieve for my expectations as I think this is something I'm really struggling with (in tears writing this, so I think that says it all).
I expected it to be bloody hard work but also had visions of us spending lots of lovely time together out as a family and right now I feel like I can't even enjoy my time with my kids as I'm constantly stressing about the dog, are there other dogs approaching, is he about to go nuts at that bin man, is he going to go crazy and scare the life out of that child running past etc etc. I felt like I'd researched and considered this all so much that I was prepared, now I feel like an idiot and completely irresponsible even getting a dog as I wasn't prepared for this. Like I think I said earlier up in the thread, I naively thought if we socialised him well from young and gave him a good loving home then this wasn't something we would probably have to deal with.

Yes, I did too and I almost went into shock, then grief but now he is almost 4, I feel much better. Don't get me wrong, the issues haven't gone, but I know what I'm doing now and am not beating myself up. He goes off lead, does react weird sometimes but is more predictable now, but I don't let him just be off lead playing with any old dog. I do think this was unrealistic. He does have half a dozen dogs he gets on well with and has good relations with.

The grief of expectations is real. Just be gentle with yourself and work with what you have. Honestly, he is a baby and will grow up. If you are determined to crack it, you will.

Sorry you are finding things hard at the moment, op. It sounds like you are doing everything right. My pup, who is now a year old, was quite lacking in self-confidence with other dogs at that age. His solution was to run away rather than growl or lunge, but I guess the root causes are similar. I think that just keeping-on-keeping-on may well lead to a steady improvement for your pup.

And I know quite a few dogs that do lunge and snarl in that nervy way, without ever taking it any further into actual aggression, so I don't think you should be quite so worried about worst-case scenarios as you are.

What I wanted to say most of all, though, is that you sound exhausted, anxious and vulnerable. I think your first priority should be to take care of yourself. When you are feeling better, more resilient, I think that all these worries about your dog will start to become more maneagable. I know how easy it is to ruminate and catastrophise when you are mentally tired. If you can find a way to get some space, some mental rest, then the challenges of dog ownership will start to feel more normal, more positive. xxx

Find a better trainer, honestly if you find the right one that can help you’ll be absolutely fine but you need someone who can help and support your trainer sounds a bit clueless as your dog isn’t following the typical pathway

dogs don’t need to say hi and be friends, do not let people look after your dog who aren’t capable of reading his language
and don’t let strangers approach and try and speak to him then as he gets more confident you can build on this

less walking and more enrichment round then house.

Oh, just to add, my previous dog was very reactive to other dogs and I found that by far and away the most helpful thing was to take a favourite toy with me on walks anf bring it out when we saw another dog approaching.
That helped ME as well as the dog to develop a different mindset about the encounter with another dog. Instead of getting gradually tenser as the other dog gor closer, we could just focus on fun. I did manage to get to the point where the sight of another dog was enough to make my dog start looking happily for his toy in my hand. It wasn't a total solution, but developing this more relaxed mindset was definitely crucial and positive.

Sorry my post doesn’t come across as very supportive but you are me a few months ago and it really does get better! But you need the right support in place to help your dog to stop it escalating

Yes I agree with sugar

Well trained dogs don't approach other dogs so if you see other dogs trying to come up to you, try and get him to focus on you and walk a bit quicker around them. And socialisation isn't about meeting all dogs. I would focus on finding the right trainer and getting things like focus right. 6 months is still very very young and they often go through stages of fear as they get older. I think working now on him not being lead reactive is important if he's starting to show signs of it (if he is).

And join the puppy thread on this board. It's really supportive!

And also don't underestimate how some dogs love routine and what they know. Even my 2 year old maniac finds the start of holidays a bit stressful as he's in an unfamiliar place (till the kids start feeding him ice cream on the quiet!).