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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

To take away water from puppy at night?

131 replies

keratoms · 30/04/2022 18:56

We're picking up a chihuahua puppy in a few days. We are going to crate train so have got her a crate for downstairs and a crate for the bedroom. The downstairs crate has plenty of room for her bed and a water bowl but not much else.

The bedroom crate due to the size of the bed only has enough room for her bed and blanket. Is that okay or do we need to make space for water? Never had a puppy before so not sure of the correct way to do this. Getting different info on Google.

Have attached the picture of nighttime crate.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Canyouanswermyquestion · 05/05/2022 07:49

@KosherDill my puppy is extremely well cared for thanks!

@TheLadyofShalott1 I mean, I could not care less if you think im lying, you are literally some random on the internet, I won't lose any sleep over you 🙃

Canyouanswermyquestion · 05/05/2022 07:51

GADDay · 05/05/2022 03:35

This thread is hilarious. Your pup will love that cosy bedtime safe space. We don't put water in our dog's crate anymore because we no longer shut the door.

He has free run of the house and oddly chooses to sleep in his cosy crate. He rarely gets up at night. He bloody loves sleeping on there.

Good thinking to have a clip on bowl for now though.

The absolutely batshit hysteria on mumsnet about dogs never fails to amuse me. According to many threads, dog's should never be left alone for even one minute and need at least 2 x 1 hour walks a day, preferably more. 🙃

The bat shit hysteria on mumsnet full stop! This site is full of crazies

fairylightsandwaxmelts · 05/05/2022 07:54

One of the five freedoms for dogs is that they have access to water at all times.

Under the Animal Welfare Act of 2006 it is actually illegal to withhold water from your dog. Of course, prosecution is highly unlikely - but just something worth thinking about.

Indoctro · 05/05/2022 08:19

Dog needs water my 15 month old dog seems to mostly drink at night. Doesn't go near it during day much but at night he almost finishes it.

All dogs need access to water 24/7

When he was crated from 8 weeks till 5 months old I had a bowl that attached to inside of his crate.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 05/05/2022 11:33

Canyouanswermyquestion · 05/05/2022 07:49

@KosherDill my puppy is extremely well cared for thanks!

@TheLadyofShalott1 I mean, I could not care less if you think im lying, you are literally some random on the internet, I won't lose any sleep over you 🙃

I don't want, or expect you to care about me! I want you you, every single one of you, who withhold water from your dog's overnight, to stop neglecting, and being cruel to your poor dogs.

Also, for everyone of you who think that your dog is happy to go into an open crate at night that has a comfortable bed in it, well yes they probably are, because they know it is left open, so it just the place where their bed happens to be, like most of us, dogs tend to be creatures of habit.

If anyone thinks that their puppy is happy to go into a cage that will be locked once it is inside, how do you know it is happy? Have you ever had the misfortune to go to somewhere like seaworld and watch the dolphins and whales doing tricks? Unfortunately I have, and guess what, they look happy, the dolphins often look like they are laughing, and they take the fish "happily" from their handlers. Do you actually believe that they are happy to be confined to small pools for the rest of their lives?

I am not trying to start a debate here about keeping dolphins and whales in oversized fish tanks, it is patently wrong, and I don't expect anyone to disagree with me about that. I am just trying to show you that animals, even very intelligent ones, can appear to be happy, when in fact they are anything but - and at least animals kept in aquariums have water available to them at all times.

Lastly, for now, I am not likening keeping dogs to keeping dolphins, dolphins haven't spent thousands of years as our faithful companions. I absolutely believe that dogs are happiest when they have a human to love and share their lives with - as long as that human meets their basic needs and rights, including walks long enough to be appropriate to what type of dog they have, and obviously full time access to water.

GADDay · 06/05/2022 00:31

TheLadyofShalott1 · 05/05/2022 11:33

I don't want, or expect you to care about me! I want you you, every single one of you, who withhold water from your dog's overnight, to stop neglecting, and being cruel to your poor dogs.

Also, for everyone of you who think that your dog is happy to go into an open crate at night that has a comfortable bed in it, well yes they probably are, because they know it is left open, so it just the place where their bed happens to be, like most of us, dogs tend to be creatures of habit.

If anyone thinks that their puppy is happy to go into a cage that will be locked once it is inside, how do you know it is happy? Have you ever had the misfortune to go to somewhere like seaworld and watch the dolphins and whales doing tricks? Unfortunately I have, and guess what, they look happy, the dolphins often look like they are laughing, and they take the fish "happily" from their handlers. Do you actually believe that they are happy to be confined to small pools for the rest of their lives?

I am not trying to start a debate here about keeping dolphins and whales in oversized fish tanks, it is patently wrong, and I don't expect anyone to disagree with me about that. I am just trying to show you that animals, even very intelligent ones, can appear to be happy, when in fact they are anything but - and at least animals kept in aquariums have water available to them at all times.

Lastly, for now, I am not likening keeping dogs to keeping dolphins, dolphins haven't spent thousands of years as our faithful companions. I absolutely believe that dogs are happiest when they have a human to love and share their lives with - as long as that human meets their basic needs and rights, including walks long enough to be appropriate to what type of dog they have, and obviously full time access to water.

You might be being a smidge OTT here. I do think water at all times is preferable but there are times, overnight when my animals haven't had access to water and they are perfectly fine.

Example - when curled up the bottom of the bed (which happens when DH is away), my gorgeous whippet and cat happily sleep all night without moving a muscle. There is no water bowl in my room BUT if they wanted a drink/toilet they would scratch on the door or briefly verbalise.

Crates are for safety, comfort, containment. I promise you they are not the devils work. Far better for a pup to be snuggled close by in a copy, safe space than wandering a large, unfamiliar and scary house on their own in the dark.

Ihatethenewlook · 06/05/2022 00:35

Nah, totally fine to stick a puppy in a tiny cage with no water for the night

3luckystars · 06/05/2022 00:39

The dog should have access to water.

I also would not bother with the cage. All the best.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 06/05/2022 08:19

Hi @GADDay, I am not quoting again because with the size of my posts it would get ridiculous!

You say that yours have been perfectly fine without water over night, I'm sorry but I need to make a few comments about that:

a) but your dog doesn't sound like it is a puppy, and you sound caring enough, and alert enough, that if your 4 legged members of the family needed you for anything in the night (when your husband is away anyway), you would hear them scratchat the door, or bark or miaow (that's useful, miaow gives me lots of vowels for wordle, thanks!).

b) with the best will in the world (please bear with me saying), that because of the content of a) above, you don't actually know if they would be fine without water if they were thirsty overnight, as they could tell you if they weren't, and so far they have been.

NB unless it was extremely hot overnight, no cat or dog in the UK would be likely to die from having one night without water available to them. However, that does not mean that they didn't feel very thirsty and uncomfortable without the water.

Also, even if someone were to measure out how much water they had left out for their dog overnight, every night, and that the first thing they did every morning (even before they pee - the human, not the dog), was to pour that water back into the measuring jug, and found that not a drop had gone missing (ok, technically that couldn't happen because a tiny bit of water would stay stuck to the dog's water bowl, but most of us don't have scientific measuring jugs for measuring micro amounts, so we probably wouldn't notice the difference anyway), that would not set a precedent.

I mean by that, that just because he or she had never needed it in the past, the dog would still have the right to get thirsty some other night, without warning it's guardian in advance that it was going to be thirsty that night - the poor dog could be coming down with a cold, or the night might be warmer than normal, or if it is an older bitch, she might be starting the peri-menopause, and about to have her first hot flush, which could leave her very thirsty indeed!

c) however, the most worrying aspect to me of your post is when you said:

"... overnight when my animals haven't had access to water and they are perfectly fine"

because that is probably where anyone who wants verification and support that their dog doesn't need water overnight, will either stop reading the rest of your post, or will latch on to that being the only IMPORTANT part of your post. Where as the important part is really where you intimate that when not asleep on your bed, your dog and cat are somewhere else in the house, where they DO have water available to them, and when with you, they would wake you up to let you know they needed something!

Now to the subject of Closed Crates.

I'm very sorry @GADDay, but I can promise you that crates are the devil's work! In non Estate agent speech, they are not cosy, they are tiny poke holes (even if your puppy is a Chihuahua and the size of a baby mouse, he or she will grow quickly, and in the meantime could possibly get it's tiny head stuck in the bars and strangle itself), they are not comfortable - they probably can't stand up in them properly, or stretch, or change their position so they can be comfortably stretched from side to side, rather than front to back. They can't reach their water, and if it is clipped to the side of their cage on the inside, then they are likely to spill/dribble some of it onto their bedding, which would not be at all comfortable. Then of course, the having to pee in their bed (which dogs hate doing), because that is what will happen at first, until their bladders have matured enough to be able to wait to 'go' until the times their supposed guardian chooses are acceptable to them - the human!

Ah, GaDDay, the choice should not be that either a pup is in a locked cage in one room - even if that room is the main bedroom - or it is free to wander in a large, dark house with dangers all around it!

When I was a child (which was admittedly a long, long time before the devil or one of his worshippers, invented cages for dogs), when my parents got a new puppy s/he was kept in the lino covered kitchen, on a comfy bed, with the water bowl near by. Said puppy could get up and walk around the kitchen if s/he wanted to stretch his or her legs, and if s/he wanted to pee s/he could do so far enough away from his or her bed that s/he didn't need to get stressed about it. My mum kept the kitchen clean, and there were no low down obstacles or cables for the puppy to hurt itself on.

When I have had puppies since leaving my childhood home, they have slept in my bedroom from the get go. They have had their water bowls in the bedroom, they have had a comfy bed, and yes there have been a couple of cables behind my and my husband's bedside tables, but when I have a puppy I sleep the same way as when I had young children, with one ear open, so if they moved (other than turning over) or whimpered, I was awake and checking if they were ok. The dogs always were alright, they just needed letting out into the garden to relieve themselves. Unfortunately with my children they sometimes moved or called because they weren't well in the night.

So if a potential puppy/dog guardian has either an enclosed kitchen, an enclosed boot room/utility - as long as it isn't too small - or any other room that the said guardian isn't too houseproud about - most preferably the guardian's bedroom, which should be the safest and kindest room for a puppy/dog to overnight in - then the puppy would not need a cage to keep it safe. If the potential guardian can't provide any one of those basic choices, then they should not be having a dog in the first place.

Your last sentence GaDDay explained what cages are for, hopefully I have explained well enough why none of those things apply?

Can I now explain (from all the posts I have read here and elsewhere) what locked cages are really for? Well I will anyway;

It is very simple, it is so that the puppy can't get out and pee or poo on his/her guardians carpet, porcelain tiles, polished or stained floorboards, etc, which means that the guardian doesn't have to get out of bed immediately to clean up the mess. It is apparently all right for the poor puppy to have to sleep in it all night.

GADDay · 06/05/2022 08:34

@TheLadyofShalott1

OK then.

Confused
Cocolapew · 06/05/2022 09:12

I don't care if my puppy poos or pres on anything, she's a pup accidents happen. What she won't do is sleep on the bed or on her bed outside the crate at night.

Cocolapew · 06/05/2022 09:13

Pees not pres 🙄

Canyouanswermyquestion · 06/05/2022 10:23

I keep my puppy in crate at night so he doesnt chew my £3000 sofa, or nibble on the corner of my wall, or chew my kitchen cupboards ( which is what 1 of my previous dogs done when i kept them in the kitchen with they're bed) nothing to do with peeing or pooing, ive had 4 children im used to bodily fluids all over the shop 😊

tabulahrasa · 06/05/2022 11:11

“It is very simple, it is so that the puppy can't get out and pee or poo on his/her guardians carpet, porcelain tiles, polished or stained floorboards, etc, which means that the guardian doesn't have to get out of bed immediately to clean up the mess. It is apparently all right for the poor puppy to have to sleep in it all night.”

except almost the exact opposite is what happens, a crated puppy in your bedroom will wake you up, an uncrated one won’t.

my current dog isn’t crated, or shut in anywhere because he’s a rescue and it makes him panicky, he does wake me up if he needs out because he’s an adult and housetrained, but he wakes me up by sticking his nose in my face... him moving round the house doesn’t wake anyone up. An unhousetrained puppy isn’t going to come and do anything that obvious.

Canyouanswermyquestion · 06/05/2022 12:46

👏👏👏

MrsSkylerWhite · 06/05/2022 12:51

Really don’t like crates but each to their own.

that one is too small, though. I’d use it in a car for an hour or two, tops.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 07/05/2022 03:17

,@CertainUncertain unfortunately I would probably trust certain countries in the Far East with a dog - in fact any animal - than the RSPCA. Ok, that might be an exaggeration, but the only time I would trust the RSPCA with an animal is if they were being filmed for the TV, and only then for as long as they were on camera.

NB. Of course some of their emplyees will be animal loving, hard working, decent human beings, unfortunately the ones I have come across haven"t been.

Anyway, @CertainUncertain you sound like a loving, responsible guardian to your dog. I still don't agree about locked cages, but they are fine to use opened if a dog prefers it. I don't suppose you and I will ever agree about locked cages for puppies, and our puppies always let us know that they needed out in the night, and they were not caged, but were in my bedroom with the door shut.

Our "puppy" is faecally incontinent now, but that is sadly because of her age, it doesn't seem to upset her, and she still loves her food (she is a labrador), so neither we or the vets think it is her time just yet, but that time is getting ever closer, as I am to tears, so I will say goodnight, and try to get to sleep.
Can I just add a thank you for obviously loving your dog very much, and for not letting inconvenience be the ruler of your choices.

Getting a dog and then putting our own selfish needs above theirs is what really makes my blood boil, you obviously don't do that. I don't understand why people get a dog if they just want it as a toy, or an accessory, or to feel good because they are one of those people who have rescued a dog, and then feel the need to tell everyone - as I am not sure they did it for the right reasons, and if someone doesn't do it for the right reasons, then I think they are very likely to not put their dog's needs above their own, and they will probably get rid of the poor animal when they get fed up.

Oh, and for the record - not that my opinion matters to anyone on Mumsnet - why should it? I don't believe that @tabulahrasa is a bad owner either, she sounds caring and knowledgeable too. But I think you are both naive if you don't think that anyone "crate trains" just for what they think will be their convenience - and from the comments I have read on this thread, quite a few Mumsnetters do do it for selfish reasons, although they will backtrack if pushed.

fairylightsandwaxmelts · 07/05/2022 07:49

But I think you are both naive if you don't think that anyone "crate trains" just for what they think will be their convenience - and from the comments I have read on this thread, quite a few Mumsnetters do do it for selfish reasons, although they will backtrack if pushed.

People do all sorts of things with their dogs that are selfish or for their own convenience - if you crate train a dog properly it is not cruel or selfish, and it can in fact save your dogs life, particularly if you have a very anxious or destructive puppy.

tabulahrasa · 07/05/2022 09:49

I mean... I can’t think of a single thing you train a dog to do that isn’t for your own convenience tbh...

lalalowlow · 07/05/2022 09:57

123ABC456 · 30/04/2022 21:25

Never crated a pup/dog, it's part of the family & you would not crate your child.

I don't understand why people would but then my animals have free rein of the house/sofa/my bed

Is kennelling dogs cruel too?

Honestly I feel like our overly fluffy attitude towards dogs these days is the absolute root of why so many people cannot control their dogs! Very breed dependent - some dogs are naturally quite biddable, other dogs allowed to roam freely in the house and go onto furniture will start to show complete lack of discipline outside too. Those are the dogs running riot in the park and bounding up to every other dog/person they see whilst their owner calls frantically after them.

Well aware this probably isn't a popular opinion. For what's it's worth, I don't think you should crate your dog without water. The crate size is fine for a chihuahua puppy though. And no, you cannot leave them in there for hours on end, but as a safe place to sleep and whilst you pop out it is absolutely fine.

ilovesushi · 07/05/2022 10:48

That crate is tiny. It looks like a travel crate not for the house. You need to get a larger create or a pen. If the puppy gets caught short in the night it will have to soil its bed and that will set any previous training back. It definitely needs access to water.

takemetomars · 07/05/2022 12:09

BungleandGeorge · 30/04/2022 21:06

If you remove water at 8 the pup will be without for what 10-12 hours? That doesn’t sound healthy to me, personally I haven’t ever removed a pets water supply. They still declaw cats by removing bone in parts of the US because it’s more convenient for owners. Perhaps I’m judging unfairly but I’d probably go for UK based advice

My dogs sleep in my bedroom. No water. They are both fine. They are raw fed so that may make a difference. Neither want water on waking and going to the kitchen.
Some of the responses on here are just ridiculous

TheLadyofShalott1 · 07/05/2022 15:25

fairylightsandwaxmelts · 07/05/2022 07:49

But I think you are both naive if you don't think that anyone "crate trains" just for what they think will be their convenience - and from the comments I have read on this thread, quite a few Mumsnetters do do it for selfish reasons, although they will backtrack if pushed.

People do all sorts of things with their dogs that are selfish or for their own convenience - if you crate train a dog properly it is not cruel or selfish, and it can in fact save your dogs life, particularly if you have a very anxious or destructive puppy.

Keep on telling yourself that @fairylightsandwaxmelts if it makes you feel better, but it is of course rubbish. You would have to keep a dog locked up in a cage 24/7 for them not to be in any physical danger from outside of the cages vicinity. But of course, the poor dog would rather be dead anyway than being that miserable! Bring locked in a cage would be a very good reason why a dog was stressed and destructive. Just don't have dogs if you can't give them the attention and love that they both crave and need.

It could also easily damage itself physically as it tried to get comfortable, stretch its legs, walk, etc and it would have to sit in its own waste products. Dogs have been found in those sort of sickening states, and if I could get hold of the humans who do that to their dogs I would be given a full life jail sentence.
I am of course referring to dogs who have been kept locked up for their whole lives in any sort of confined spaces, not necessarily cages.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 07/05/2022 15:32

takemetomars · 07/05/2022 12:09

My dogs sleep in my bedroom. No water. They are both fine. They are raw fed so that may make a difference. Neither want water on waking and going to the kitchen.
Some of the responses on here are just ridiculous

@takemetomars
You say that neither of your dogs want water first thing in the morning, is that because they are desperate to go outside, or because like most dogs - but particularly if they are a labrador - food is the first and formost thing on their mind??

fairylightsandwaxmelts · 07/05/2022 15:42

@TheLadyofShalott1 my dog has actually never been crated so you can go and preach to someone else🙄