Dog bared teeth twice and growled

[Roma1219]

OK so need some opinions. I got a puppy mali x german shepherd. She is going to be fairly big. She is now 7 months old, we have trained her to a point that people are astounded. Hand fed from 10 weeks old. Last week, two different occasions She has bared her teeth and growled at my 13 year old daughter giving her a treat. I now have no confidence in dog not being in same room as me with kids. She won't do it with me or when I'm in same room. Dog trainer said this is her temperament. Just how she is. Don't give treats. But who's to say this behaviour wont extend to her toys or if she is tired or hot. I want to rehome with a friend with no kids but my kids don't want her to go and just the mention of it sends them into tears. Feels like a ticking time bomb if I keep her though

The trainer doesn't sound any good for starters.

Secondly, if you rehome her, and it sounds like you absolutely should for your children's sake, you should rehome her via a rescue who can assess and help with her behavioural needs instead of giving her to a friend where the problem is only going to get worse...

Thanks for your reply. I think.its because she has her malinois temperament. They are used in army and navy prob not the best choice of pet on my part but thought with intensive training it wouldn't be a problem.

Yeah, I understand and even more a reason she needs a professional handler. For her sake and everybody else's. Best of luck with it!

Get a behaviourist in (get a vet recommendation ) and stop hand feeding.. many dogs like their food in peace and many dogs don't like that.
Sounds like a resource guarding issue arising to me, and hand feeding (hopefully you aren't ever taking food away from her when you have given it..if so STOP) will make things worse.

For now, only you give treats and make sure your children don't tease her with food or intereact with her food at all. And respect her space.. Don't panic, but get advice oh and a new trainer...yours is rubbish.

Get a force free, fully accredited (APDT)positive behaviourist.

PS no 7 month old puppy is fully trained. A 7 month old puppy is entering adolescence, and everything you think you have achieved... pooof! Recall will vanish, behaviour will deteriorate no matter how brilliant your training has been. It's a developmental stage. A calm consistent approach will see you through... but it's normal for puppies to act like arses from about 6 -18m (and longer for bigger breeds)..that's when most dogs are rehomed... when the cute puppy stops being so cute.

Surely if you were getting a strong x breed with very specific characteristics (GUARDING BREEDS) you have researched their needs and suitability as a family pet? Sorry if that sounds harsh, but they are wonderful breeds ..both, but need experienced handling.. I don't think you should be rehoming, but you should be looking for qualified support!

What does her breeder say?

Thanks stillmedusa you sound like you know your stuff. Its if I should push on through the risk or not. I feel completely at fault overestimating my training capabilities. 3 times a day training, hand feeding to avoid resource aggression. Like humans you don't know what your dealing with until they come of age. Never taken food toys or treats away. Children have hand fed since 10 weeks so as for her to realise hands means food and good stuff. Iv followed every rule but still ended up with a pup who is resource guarding. She gets walked 3 times a day too so as to wear her out as I know this can be a prob too. Iv done everything by the book.

I would say listen to you gut and protect your children. If that means upset children and no more dog that’s preferable to the possibility of a child that gets bitten.

Get rid of the dog. You must put your children's safety first.

I cant offer any advice but I understand how youre feeling ..... age could be the issue. We've got an 11 month old border collie whos skitish to say the least. Last weekend we had to take the car to the garage, winterpup came with us and behaved like a dream dog, sat down when told, accepted people to touch him, no barking or jumping up, i was sooo proud. Had to go back today and he was a total twat, i had to double lead his harness, jumped up constantly, barked and lunged at anyone who came within 10 feet of him. I ended up putting him back in the car, where he promptly fell asleep. We're definitely living the 'teenage years'and boy its tough at times.

I'm no expert... but have a somewhat 'tricky' large breed myself and have had to learn a lot!
Hand feeding to create a bond is an approach that is often still put forward, but research has shown it can do the opposite
(quite a good link here [https://positively.com/contributors/the-hand-that-feeds-there-are-better-options-than-hand-feeding/]] )

For now I would absolutely stop hand feeding. Give your girl her food in a bowl, and leave her to eat in absolute peace. Ditto favourite chews, or toys. If she got something dangerous (to her) and you need to take it off her.. offer a very high value food to swap. But generally... just let her eat in peace. Drop treats in passing to create a stress free feel good feeling for her.

Honestly it's fixable.. you have an adolescent puppy who is deciding now that OY that is MINE! It's not an end of the world situation :) but good advice now is worth the money to have a fab adult dog in a year's time.

My girl can be a complete pain in the arse on different issues (sounds and looks like a wolf and is nervous of strangers/strange dogs) and I've had a few 'why the hell did we get her?' moments but with support we have got to a stage where she is a reasonably well behaved girl :) However I am always aware of her triggers and her feelings about life, regardless of mine, and act accordingly :)

My parents passed on a snappy dog when I was young. Two actually now I think if it.

It taught me a valuable lesson as a child that owning a dog is not to be taken lightly.

Really appreciate everyone's input. 🙏 I not one to give up on anything. I'm going to speak briefly with an animal behaviourist but I don't think that will take away from fear of the worst. Essentially an dog no matter how much a part of the family is still an animal and behaviour cant be predicted. Its down to if I want to risk it over my children. Which isn't even a question to be debated.

It sounds like you're too inexperienced for a cross like that - and I don't mean that nastily. I wouldn't want a cross of those two breeds in my home with children either - they're a challenge at the best of times.

I think the best thing would be to either return her to the breeder or give her up to a rescue that specialises in shepherds. Neither breed is easy and I think you need to have a lot of experience to raise them properly in a family home.

I would get rid of this agressive dog. But what on earth possessed you to get it in the first place.

The saying goes there are no bad dogs only bad owners. I wanted a dog that would be protective of children and home being a single parent and one who runs alone on trail in woods. Energetic intelligent obedient, Seemed a good fit. But the best laid plans. I put every effort, Read every guide but hands up this I may have failed at this one. Every dog has its own personality I didn't account for that. She is good in every other way apart from treats.

Where did she come from? Getting a guarding breed from anywhere that isn't a rock solid reputable breeder who will be there with you for the life of the dog is a huge gamble. If she's come from a backyard breeder she may well not have a stable temperament and all the training in the world won't change that. You need a proper behaviourist to look and tell you. Honestly though I'd rehome her. I've only ever had big guarding breeds and I've never been growled at once. I wouldn't tolerate a powerful dog baring it's teeth to my kids. It's just not a safe situation. Even if you make it work with your kids what about their friends? It's just a no.

Why on earth do you have to hand feed the dog?
That's mental.
Especially for a guard dog.

We always gave our dog his food in a bowl, put the bowl on the floor and he ate from it.

You should rehome this dog.

I agree about hand feeding potentially being problematic, particularly in a dog bred for guarding. When hand fed, depending on how and when it is done, certain dogs can think "oh yippee, this human is not only allowing me in to his space, he is allowing me to take his food off him too!"

I am usually someone who would recommend persevering with a dog and focusing on their body language in training, but in this instance , because of the dog's age and the breed mix, I would have no hesitation about re-homing through a breed specific rescue, if I thought my children were in potential danger. GS X Mali is a powerful mixture if you get it wrong! You just have to work through your dc being upset I'm afraid. As a parent, it is your job to give your children what they need (safety & security) as opposed to want they want (relationship with a dog who could be a danger to them).

I think the mix is far too much. A pure GSD would probably have been fine, but the Malinois are of a different temperament.

I don’t understand the hand feeding but I imagine it could be frustrating for an inpatient hungry pup.

Were you there when the growling occurred? What actually happened, you haven’t specifically said.

A GSD/Mali cross would scare me. Pure GSDs can be scary enough but crossed with a Mali - that's too much

I’ve owned, trained and rescued GSD for over 20 years and anything Mali would be too much for me!
Sadly with GSD too many people breed the nervous or reactive ones and don’t stop to think about what they are creating and that’s without adding mail to the mix.

Temperament traits can be passed on genetically.
Did you see both parents? Did any show signs of guarding behaviour?
Are there any issues with littermates?
Was it a huge litter? Competition between littermates can cause issues without an experienced breeder on hand to recognise. I wouldn’t buy from a breeder who feeds from one huge bowl and let’s everyone squabble it out for example.

For now, stop the hand feeding and let the dog eat in peace. I don’t do hand feeding at all other than treats.
Does your dog play swap games and know a strong leave it command?

It sounds like you need a qualified behaviourist to assess and give you some tips and an honest opinion on whether or not it’s workable and the set up is right for the dog. It’s expensive but it’s the best way to make sure your not going to make any mistakes at this point!

Finally at 7 months the pup shouldn’t really be doing much walking at all. I know it seems counter productive but I would swap the walking for training walks and brain games.

Dog trainer said this is her temperament. Just how she is. Don't give treats

Bollocks. There's a multitude of reasons why your dog might have growled before they should conclude it's her temperament especially at only 7 months - she's still a puppy.

Hand feeding is madness, she's probably hungry. Just give her the food in the bowl and if she's got a resource like her own food or toy, why is it important that you can take it off her? Why can't she have some resources that aren't going to be taken away at any random point? She should be left well alone with food and chews and if you need to get something off her use the highest value treat you can to swap for it. Teach her a rock solid leave command. Don't let the children bother her while she's asleep, eating or chewing. My dog is a little jack Russell x but i don't let my children feed him except under very close supervision because of the risk of nipping. If the dog doesn't do it while you're in the room suggests maybe she's uncomfortable with your dd in some way. Perhaps your dog feels safer when you're around. I would stop your children feeding the dog at all unless it's a part of a controlled training session with you.

You need a properly qualified dog behaviourist to assess the situation - a different one to the one who told you to hand feed the dog.

A dog growling is actually good. She's giving you a warning that she's not happy. Figure out why she's not happy and work on it.

This is rubbish The saying goes there are no bad dogs only bad owners as is your trainers comment Dog trainer said this is her temperament. Just how she is. Don't give treats.

This may be a simple issue or it may be more however the only way is to get in a qualififed behaviourist or intially a qualified trainer to show you the way forward.

I would not jump to the conclusion that this was resource quarding as your daughter was giving the dog the resource. However how she was handling the food or if anything else was going on at the same time needs to be looked into.

You have jumped from zero to hundred in your post. Get in some professional help (not your existing trainer) and get some advice from people who can see the situation in rl.

Hi marblequeen so hand fedding supposed to ihibit source guarding if done from young age. She is fine with food, just chews so far. so on both occasions my daughter gave her a dental chew then a gentle pat on her head. Then a day later same thing both times bared teeth and growled. I got her to do it in front of me, I could see the stare they do. But didnt growl or bare teeth, I told her never to give her a chew again. My daughter said" she would never bite me", I went into full blown lecture. They spend a lot of time together, dog follows her everywhere. She walks and feeds her.