Dog bared teeth twice and growled

[Roma1219]

OK so need some opinions. I got a puppy mali x german shepherd. She is going to be fairly big. She is now 7 months old, we have trained her to a point that people are astounded. Hand fed from 10 weeks old. Last week, two different occasions She has bared her teeth and growled at my 13 year old daughter giving her a treat. I now have no confidence in dog not being in same room as me with kids. She won't do it with me or when I'm in same room. Dog trainer said this is her temperament. Just how she is. Don't give treats. But who's to say this behaviour wont extend to her toys or if she is tired or hot. I want to rehome with a friend with no kids but my kids don't want her to go and just the mention of it sends them into tears. Feels like a ticking time bomb if I keep her though

I would remove all dental chews from her diet (full of rubbish additives) Also do not pat on the head. Most dogs hate being stroked on their heads - they learn to tolerate it but it is very difficult for many dogs.

Yea dental chews are recent because her breath really started to smell terrible. Bones weren't enough. Think ensuring kids don't pat her head is just not conducive to a family pet. What if they have friends over?Just don't think it would be responsible to have a dog that's iffy with children.

The dog isn't necessarily iffy with children. It might be that you haven't put the right boundaries in place between dog and children and that could happen with any dog. You could get a chihuahua and have the same thing happen. Dogs growl as one way to communicate that something is wrong.

If you want to rehome the dog though then rehome the dog. You don't need permission.

True but the difference with a chihuahua is it doesn't pose a fatal risk. Think I'm just trying to gauge a consensus from other mums and if they had experienced the same with their pets.

I think you need to re-home - the dog needs a home that is willing to help and work with it, not just give it away. Your dog growled - that is a good thing. The growl is saying, I don't like that, it's scaring me or Manning me uncomfortable. You didn't listen and let your DD do the same thing again. Your fault, but the dogs. And three walks isn't tiring, you need mental stimulation.

She gets training every day with her breakfast and has her evening meal hidden around the house to find it, or put in a puzzle. I don't know many pet owners that put in what I have every day, walks and runs with me in woods also. 3-4 hours of walks n runs, training and puzzles. Never left for more than 2 hours alone.Think your comment is presumptuous and unhelpful.

While it's true that the Malinois is the most versatile police and military working dog, it's also a dog that needs a job.

The breed is bred almost exclusively for protection work and its drive, intensity and aggressive tendencies make it a very poor choice for a pet.

What I'm trying to say is that you've put in so much work and yet seem so ready to give up. The growl is the dogs way of communicating that it doesn't like something. It didn't bite. Lots of people have told you to stop hand feeding but you're ignoring that. I'm not trying to be presumptuous just trying to say that you're putting so much work in but not addressing this one concern that the dog has.

I am surprised by your posts OP. You say you have put in a lot of training thats fab but it does not stop at 7 months.

Of course it is possible to ask people not to pat your dog on their head! This is a very minor change if it makes your dog happy.

You are not putting in anymore effort than a normal dog owner

She gets training every day with her breakfast and has her evening meal hidden around the house to find it, or put in a puzzle. I don't know many pet owners that put in what I have every day, walks and runs with me in woods also. 3-4 hours of walks n runs, training and puzzles. Never left for more than 2 hours alone.

but 3-4 hours of walks/runs is too much for a 7 month old pup

I think it's unfair to say the op hadn't put the work in. She obviously has, but this is a case of wrong breed for a family home and a dog that needs experienced, specialist handling.

You see it all the time in the horse world where people, even experienced owners, are "over-horsed", people are just perhaps willing to admit it more readily because of the size of the animal involved.

In your shoes op, I understand your ambivalence about letting the dog go, but I wouldn't compound the original mistake of buying the wrong X breed, with keeping an animal that could endanger your dc. (I agree that he may not bite as long as your DD respect his warning communicative growls but I wouldn't want to chance that personally with a dog of that power.)

I think I would get in touch with your local police dog handling unit and make a few enquiries. Your dog is still young. And I don't understand why everyone is automatically rejecting what your behaviourist has said, a person who has actually met and interacted with the dog.

Hand feeding seems bonkers to me, sorry. Dogs should be allowed to eat in peace, around something like food is when they are most defensive and you are putting a child into this situation. My DD would never be allowed to interfere with feeding dogs, and she knows to be careful around toys etc. Not saying anything bad about your children but children generally aren't experienced enough to spot warning signs.
3 - 4 hours walks is too much for a 7 month old pup I'm afraid.
If your children have friends around, put the dog away. Do not leave them unsupervised, children and dog interaction should happen under a very watchful eye, no matter how good the dog and child. I wouldn't want my daughter going to play at a house that had a breed like this that obviously is testing the boundaries somewhat. You sound like you've been putting lots of work in and that is fab, but things obviously need tweaking. It certainly isn't an un - rescuable situation, a growl is not a bad thing but a warning.

Do you have much doggy experience?

But the op knew this when she got the breed dog that needs experienced, specialist handling and the dog is doing what this breed will do - and they are ready to throw in the towel because they state they have done all the training but the dog is still "bad".

I can totally understand the fear and worry but the reasons given for giving up on the dog are so wrong. Get in qualified help, take rl on the ground advice. Be ready to make major changes to what is happening already and the situation may (Ihave no idea as can not see it in rl) be able to change. None of us can give realistic advice.

But op saying that it is not possible to stop people patting her dog on the head does worry me as this is a simple thing to do......

7 months is just the beginning of the training

3-4 hours of running and walking is crazy for a 7month, particularly for a big breed. Their joints and tendons need time to grow. Chances are pup is physically over stimulated, and possibly in discomfort. You say her breath has recently become bad? Has she had her teeth checked? If dogs are in pain they don't always show it but it can make them short tempered.
We got our big breed (not GSD) at 15 months as a rescue and she was horrendous for the first few months as I was falling into similar traps of over exercise, over mental stimulation and not enough down time. Mali & GSD need more mental stimulation than my breed but they need to have enforced down time - does she get put in a crate to rest or have a safe place to go to away from everyone?
I used to have a Labrador when growing up that was a typical family lab. Happy, content and chilled but even she would have had something to say if I'd touched her face after giving her a high value treat. How would you like it if someone gave you a chocolate bar and then stroked your cheek? It's weird and crosses boundaries. By growling she is letting you know that behaviour is not okay. Teach your kids not to give treats and touch her, let her have space, and make sure she's getting enough rest. When we cut her our girls walks down from 3 40minute walks to 140 minute and 120minute on the advice of our behaviourist I couldn't believe the difference it made within days.

The thing is, you can put a load of work in, just like with horses, but if it's the wrong work or the right work done in the wrong way, then it can create or exacerbate problems. And /or the dog's behaviour can be informed by faulty breeding.

And while I absolutely agree that the character of an individual dog is more important than it's breed, you cannot altogether ignore what a dog has been bred for, it's power, size and intelligence, when there are DC in the house. That's just a matter of common sense.

I have rescue dogs who were badly mistreated as puppies and they nipped us all (including my DC) in the first year we owned them because of their extreme fear and distrust of humans. So I am not one to advocate giving up easily and they are both very loving, gentle dogs now. But owing to their size and temperament, I was able to make that judgement call. Also, I think it is easy to rehabilitate a dog who growls and bites because their past background has understandably made them fearful of humans, than it is to train a young dog who hasn't been mistreated but whose behaviour has gone awry for some reason. (Not that a few growls qualifies as going awry but the potential is there.) You see these issues with foals who have been hand-reared who have not received behaviour training from their mothers. Plus we have DC in the mix who, like all DC, cannot be relied upon 100% to comply when we ask them not to do something with the dog. And in this instance, imho, the youth of the dog makes it more urgent to give it up to someone promptly who knows what they are doing. I wouldn't hesitate op as long as you know the dog is going to an experienced and good home.

Yes I was going to say that seven months is quite young for a dog's breath to smell so bad. It needs to see a vet. Have you trained it so that another human can open its jaws and have a look?

3 to 4 hours in total a excercise a day. Ball, frisbee, running. She is a mali x working breed and even still will walk around restless, nudging me with her ball. She gets crated for hour at a time after walks . "Youbeengonesolong" has nailed it. Iv bitten more than I can chew. Regardless training and time n effort isn't enough. Sometimes it's just not a good fit. And the risk for the kids isn't something I should be taking. It's not about giving up n dumping the dog, it's making best choice for both, if she did bite she would be put to sleep. I would be responsible for that. Thanks everyone's opinions, given me clarity.

Op

Sorry that you have received some criticism here despite it being clear you have been proactive and acted with good intention.

I would not keep this dog at all. Having been in a similar situation in the past it was an utter relief when I finally no longer had the angst hanging over me.

PollyRoulllson btw although it doesn't seem like it, I agree with what you are saying in very many ways, but in a busy household with DC it's not possible to give the level of surveillance required while the rehabilitation training is taking place. It only takes one door left open for things to go very wrong.

Op I hope the friend that your dog may be going to has lots of experience in dealing with GS & Mali breeds? Personally, I would be rehoming via a specialist breed centre or ringing one of the services dog handling unit.

Yep these dogs are not for amateurs. Loads of dog breeds out there who will fit into your family with far less stress.

As PPs have said, growling is a form of communication. She is unhappy about something. One possibility is that she is in pain. Another is that your DD’s hand motion when reaching to stroke her surprised the pup and made her think the treat was going to be taken away. It’s impossible for anyone on this thread to interpret the situation accurately since we weren’t there. But to immediately leap to the conclusion that the pup is dangerous or aggressive based on these two incidents strikes me as unhelpful. A qualified behaviourist who can properly assess the situation should be the first port of call IMO.

It does sound as though the pup is overstimulated with too much physical exercise and perhaps the children aren’t being supervised enough in their interactions with her. At 7 months, she is entering adolescence. She needs much more training.

I don't know many pet owners that put in what I have every day, walks and runs with me in woods also. 3-4 hours of walks n runs, training and puzzles. Never left for more than 2 hoursalone

This isn't the right type of stimulation for the type of dog you have. And I also agree withothers, goingout for hour runs with you is probably to much. My Poodle X however would be very happy with this

She needs a job that reflects her breed traits. You need to tap into her needs, what she does naturally- I gess it's guarding you,
then her food, bed, settee, home,...
Have you looked into K9 spots? Maybe obedience is an suitable option for her. A lot of the exercises will satisfy her needs, it will also help her settle around the home.
I would involve the DC with the training to teach them how to interact with each other- obviously under professional supervision.

And, most dogs mature around the age of 18- 30 months, you still have a long way to go!

3 to 4 hours in total a excercise a day. Ball, frisbee, running. She is a mali x working breed and even still will walk around restless, nudging me with her ball

That's far, far FAR too much. She is restless because she's hugely overstimulated and full of adrenaline.

At seven months I wouldn't do more than an hour of exercise in total per day, ideally split over 2-3 walks. It doesn't matter that she's a working breed - no pup needs that amount of exercise.

Spending an hour a day focusing on teaching her calm, settle and sleep would be far more productive than spending four hours a day on exercise.

at 7 months her joints and ligaments are still soft.

She should NOT AT ALL be jumping and twisting after a speedily thrown ball or frisbee. You will damage her joints.

and if you run with her, then an hour is too long. No dog (apart from maybe huskies) run continuously for an hour naturally.

My dh ran with our dog. he coudl only do it in a place where he was off lead, so the dog could stop start sprint and walk. Continuous jogging at one speed is really uncomfortable and bad for most dogs.

Tbh you are out of your depth and this is far more dog than you were prepared for. Malinois are amazing lovely dogs but not suitable for your average family home, the very fact someone has crossed it with gds doesn’t make the breeder sound particularly responsible either. Do not rehome to your friend, do not sell on or pass on. Either give back to your breeder, or responsible organisation and be honest or if you keep them you need a good trainer who knows what they’re doing and you need to face up to the fact this dog may never be the companion you were hoping for. A well bred lab/ sbt/ boxer would probably have been a much more suitable option. The no bad dogs only bad owners is rubbish, plenty of dogs are badly bred, poor temperaments and bought by normal loving families and things go wrong, badly bred dogs and good owners can just as easily happen.
We see it on here all the time, dogs bred for looks, money, no heath testing or poor temperaments, or sometimes just unsuitable homes sometimes it’s just the wrong situation. For your kids safety tears or not you will have to put their safety first no matter how much they hate you for it. Sorry probably not what you want to hear