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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Dog bared teeth twice and growled

108 replies

Roma1219 · 03/04/2022 20:24

OK so need some opinions. I got a puppy mali x german shepherd. She is going to be fairly big. She is now 7 months old, we have trained her to a point that people are astounded. Hand fed from 10 weeks old. Last week, two different occasions She has bared her teeth and growled at my 13 year old daughter giving her a treat. I now have no confidence in dog not being in same room as me with kids. She won't do it with me or when I'm in same room. Dog trainer said this is her temperament. Just how she is. Don't give treats. But who's to say this behaviour wont extend to her toys or if she is tired or hot. I want to rehome with a friend with no kids but my kids don't want her to go and just the mention of it sends them into tears. Feels like a ticking time bomb if I keep her though

OP posts:
2bazookas · 04/04/2022 14:42

Stop handfeeding the dog at once. Put her food in HER dish on the floor in the kitchen at regular fixed times. That is the only dish, place and time she gets fed. Always by you. Don't let the kids touch or distract her while she's eating.

Do not allow children to give the dogs its meals, or any snack or treats. Ever.

Get a better trainer. Make sure dog gets A LOT of excercise , preferably offlead.

Give the dog time; no pup of that age is reliably trained.

Iloveyourbracelet · 04/04/2022 14:47

As others have said she's very over exercised and overstimulated. All that exercise is likely to be doing physical harm in such a young dog. At 7 months my puppy was sleeping most of the day with short brain games and other types of stimulation in between. Have you had a dog before?

Its probably for the best if you do rehome her.

Iloveyourbracelet · 04/04/2022 14:47

Make sure dog gets A LOT of excercise , preferably offlead

She's giving it 4 hours a day.

StooOrangeyForCrows · 04/04/2022 14:48

You are over exercising her. If you want her to feel worn out, reduce her carbs to take the freshness out of her.

Before 14 months, 20 minutes a day only.

StooOrangeyForCrows · 04/04/2022 15:01

Dogs get difficult if they have frustration in their life. Somethings like getting on sofas and stuff you have to be tough over but things like being able to tuck into a bowl of food completely undisturbed is a birthright.

Think of their frustrations and reduce them as far as you are able and meet their needs in every aspect of their lives so they feel content, safe and with adequate resource.

Anything regarding their food other than being left to eat it quietly and as slowly as they want is going to cause issues.

XelaM · 04/04/2022 15:40

This mix is not suitable to a home with kids. I am usually against rehoming dogs, but the Mali/GSD mix is too dangerous to be a child-friendly family pet.

Although my best friend grew up with a GSD (about 25 years ago in Germany) and it's her favourite breed because hers was the most amazing family pet; but I think nowadays GSDs are often of quite questionable temperament and my daughter's friend has two who are scary to the point that they have to live in the garden and the kids are scared to go out into their own garden unless the dogs are in their kennel (only the father handles them). Add to that the Mali - one of the most aggressive guarding breeds - and that's a crazy mix to have around kids.

Rehome to an experienced owner with no kids who will give the dog a job to do and it can become a great dog, as both these breeds are extremely intelligent.

If you want a family dog, get a companion breed. Our dog brings all his chews to anyone who's sitting next to him on the sofa, as he wants us to hold the chew to make it more convenient for him to eat 😂 so the opposite of being nervous/guarding around food and we never hand-fed him or did anything extraordinary. He's just a friendly-natured dog. Get a family-friendly dog.

OrlandointheWilderness · 04/04/2022 16:29

Actually when I posted I knew nothing about malinois dogs. I have experience with GS though. Having read a bit about the mal, that seems like a bloody odd cross to buy for a family pet to me!
I think I'll stick to my spaniels 😂

SparklingLime · 04/04/2022 16:37

Surely you need to talk to a second, vet-recommended APDT trainer whatever you decide? You need a proper assessment before you can pass the dog on?

PollyRoulllson · 04/04/2022 16:44

Ball throwing and frisbee will hype up a working dog. I have spent years with working Malis and GSD and trust me they do not need to be hyped up and exercised to the point of adrenalin bursting from them.

A few basic simple changes will alter the whole situation or at least aim you with correct information to make a decision.

OP Please get in a decent qualified trainer before making this decision.

You are making rooky errors and making big decisions based on incorrect conclusions.

Correct training (which need not take loads of time) will alter things dramatically.

However your inexperience with dogs is showing so you will need to be receptive to challenging your views on dog behaviour.

PollyRoulllson · 04/04/2022 16:44

arm you !

Undecicive · 04/04/2022 17:15

I'm so glad I clicked on this thread as I was considering the hand feeding idea.

OP, you're really overexercising your dog. I wouldn't take a 7 month old puppy running at all, let alone with all the other exercise you do. (chase is really just exercise I believe). You could try some scent work exercise, he might like that.

greenmeansNogo · 04/04/2022 17:57

I have a problem dog which is highly trained too and it rules your life. Mine isn't massive, but the growl is the warning. Google the ladder of aggression.

I can't have people to my house. My dog is extremely protective of my kids. It's not a good thing. I wanted to get rid of it,but Dh didn't saying we committed to it. I love my dog very much and so many people marvel over what a lovely good dog it is, but they don't know the full story.

Sarahssss · 04/04/2022 19:45

I had to rehome my dog who bit my child. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do and I still cry about it, but it was absolutely the right decision

ohballz · 04/04/2022 20:21

I recommend you chat on Mumsnet all evening with a bunch of strangers and don't even think about protecting your kids from a dangerous dog

Wolfiefan · 04/04/2022 20:25

Three to four hours exercise a day! At seven months?

Soringhaze · 04/04/2022 20:25

The OP has repeatedly ignored the question where the dog has come from. There is no breeder to help because this pup has come from an irresponsible mating. The reason we have generation after generation of pedigree dog is to track things like personality. Buying a mixed dog of guarding heritage from heavens knows where was not likely to end well. I don't blame the OP. She likely bought into the no bad dogs idea which is utter horseshite. This dog may have unstable dogs on either side of it's line. This dog needs a specialist home that has the resource to access specialist behaviourist help from someone who knows GSDs and Malinois. It's a rocket fuel combo of a dog.

Joystir59 · 04/04/2022 20:29

Until you can get an assessment from a behaviourist, do not let your children give the dog any food at all, and make your dog sit and wait before giving food or treats, and only feed when dog is on the floor and being calm and gentle.

HotnSunnyRainbowRoses · 04/04/2022 21:38

so on both occasions my daughter gave her a dental chew then a gentle pat on her head
I think that’s the issue tbh.
My younger one, if I gave him a chew then went to pat his head, okay he would be very unlikely to growl but he’d be a bit taken aback.
My older dog wouldn’t care.
I bet your dog either perceives that pat to be your DD trying to take the treat away or like my younger dog, she just plain don’t want to get a pat when she’s looking forward to her chew!

Think ensuring kids don't pat her head is just not conducive to a family pet. What if they have friends over?
With respect, a working GSD x Malinois is not a family pet...
We briefly thought about getting one (or another guarding breed) due to increasing violent crime where we live.
One of the things we considered was that we wouldn’t be able to invite strange children over to play, potentially the dog wouldn’t be able to be looked after in a professional setting, how would we handle unexpected idiotic behaviour out and about from the public without injury; eg today on the school run when I witnessed three kids deliberately barking at and running and jumping at some other parents dog 😡 and so on.
Great dogs, but family pets they ain’t.

3 to 4 hours in total a excercise a day. Ball, frisbee, running. She is a mali x working breed and even still will walk around restless, nudging me with her ball
Way over board!
The dog will be completely wired and overstimulated and you’ll fuck up her joints.
I do understand the whole walking restless nudging with s ball as I too have a working breed from working lines but that is way inappropriate for such a young dog

whatisthisinhere · 04/04/2022 22:26

I'm sorry but a 7 month old puppy is too young to go on runs through the woods. You need to provide mental stimulation, breed specific satisfaction. Have you tried scent games? Using their noses is very good for anxious dogs, and your dog sounds anxious.
Your children should not be hand feeding and giving treats, if you're doing this to help training then it should be you alone as the handler who does this.
I think you need to re home the dog, not because dog is aggressive, but because you didn't think through your decision or reasons to get the puppy, and it needs help

whatisthisinhere · 04/04/2022 22:28

Oh, and my children and all people are instructed to never pat my working line gsd on the head. Just because humans want to do this, doesn't mean dogs like it. It infuriates me

maeveiscurious · 04/04/2022 22:36

We have a cheerful pup of the same age, I feed her in a bowl and is never anxious about food. I would stop the hand feeding. I was talking to a kennel owner and she thinks dog know the time, if she is late feeding they are upset even if it's 15 minutes. Imagine waiting for someone to hand feed you and they are running late.

I wouldn't rush off to regime I would get the just to back off a bit and look at her feeding

maeveiscurious · 04/04/2022 22:39

I agree too much exercise too

3 to 4 hours in total a excercise a day. Ball, frisbee, running. She is a mali x working breed and even still will walk around restless, nudging me with her ball

ThisisMax · 04/04/2022 23:06

Hello, I might chip in. I have a pup the same age and he is a working line GSD. Im pretty experienced dogwise but sweet jesus he is a big learning curve. I have learned a lot on these threads from @PollyRoulllson and directly from @Leonberger (thank you).
So first up, I have made similar mistakes to you. If I were getting a GSD again I would do everything differently from day 1.
First up I had a crappy first trainer who was just awful. I then over exercised and over stimulated, then I obsessed about handfeeding and engagement. The dog was not fun to live with.
Now- he is crated for downtime- I decide that, we do three short walks per day- maybe 20 min each? He has house time when I am there. He is bowl fed. He is in two classes a week- a puppy session for socialisation and a short one to one with a new trainer who is amazingly good. Thats it. I learned to ignore the shit bits, reward the great stuff and learn to see when he needed downtime or was approaching threshold and head it off. He is by no means perfect but with my routine and some search /scentwork etc a few times a week he is fab. Im not gonna tell you what to do but mine was heading the same direction and thats how I changed it to date. I expect many more bumps in the road for the next 18 months but he is so much better now. Key to it has been me being directive ' this is what happens now, this is how we do it and when I say it ends then that really is true". They are big, smart dogs who thrive on direction. You had lots of good advice and maybe mine will help too.

Handsfullofholes · 04/04/2022 23:12

You need to take the puppy to the vet. Bad breath probably equals a painful or infected tooth, which was probably exacerbated by the pat on the head, equalling the growling.

Get a full MOT with the vet then reassess.

ThisisMax · 04/04/2022 23:14

Also!!! On the treat, dog chew thing- getting food is a highly stresful/high emotion time. With these breeds you need to be careful, I would be consistent in feeding only in a bowl, only on sit, stay and in a quiet place. Bowl is removed when dog is out.
I only use treats for training and they are tiny and high value and as a result of doing something I asked for. No chews, no treats outside of that. Mine is ok to have his head touched, but if you are giving a treat or chew and touching the head I can see why that would result in a growl.