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The doghouse

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Original poster

Soiling in crate

79 replies

Cappucinoextrachocolate · 30/12/2021 08:45

I am at my wits' end. My 4 months old (17 weeks) Miniature Schnauzer has started to soil his crate. We have him from 11 weeks and he is still housetraining. While very full on during the day, we were counting our lucky stars as he took to his crate straight away and was dry during the night, going through from about 10.30pm to 6am when I was taking him in the garden.
About 2 weeks ago I woke up to find poo in his crate. This continued on and off every night. I put a partition in his crate so he only has space for his bed. I went to him at 5am this morning and he had soiled his crate again, and was lying in it. It was all over his bed and his fur. No loose stool but obviously squished ( sorry, TMI). I gave him a shower which he hates.
Generally, everything is a struggle with him. I love him but I don't enjoy him at the moment as nothing is easy: washing, brushing, house training. He wriggles a lot and he started growling and nipping my hands whenever I have to do something he doesn't like (taking him out of the car, in the garden sometimes, wiping his paws when we come from a walk, etc. ) He is walked twice a day, I socialize him, he is not neglected but things like grooming him are non negotiable and they are a source of stress for both of us. Now this soiling issue, I can't help thinking we bought a perfect puppy and turned him into a stressed one. The thought of waking up at 3am to take a sleepy pup out of his crate is filling me with despair because as I said he gets very nippy and growly. He is a very deep sleeper and I'm wondering if this is part of the problem? Help!

OP posts:

Original poster

Cappucinoextrachocolate · 30/12/2021 08:49

Just to add he is dewormed and de-flead every month and is also fully vaccinated, he eats and drinks normally, this makes me think of a behavioural problem, not a medical one.

OP posts:

BiteyShark · 30/12/2021 08:52

I would start getting up to take him out rather than forcing him to toilet on his bed as he has no other choice as you don't want that to become a habit. Use a baby monitor so you can hear him wake up or an alarm until he is older and can hold it all night. I found it wasn't unusual for things to change as they grow up so maybe he is eating more or just wakes more and needs to go as he is still very young.

As for the nipping and biting then I would recommend a 1-1 trainer to give you a plan to work on that. Btw mine tolerates things like being groomed but only because he knows he gets a special treat afterwards so he now associates grooming of his ears means a treat is coming soon.

Thatsplentyjack · 30/12/2021 08:52

Hes just a baby, still leaning to toilet train. Nothing to do with a behavioural problem.

smurfsss · 30/12/2021 08:56

Poor animal. Shitting in his own bed, the poor creature obviously felt like he had no choice.

Get him out of that crate fgs!

Justcannotbearsed · 30/12/2021 08:57

You need to set a alarm and get up in the night to let him out of the crate or be somewhere close enough to hear him so you know he need out. Personally I’d stop crating at night ( it’s not obligatory) and just put up with the odd wee and poo. Use pads at night and concentrate on daytime housetraining. It’s a phase, he’ll soon start sleeping through.

Look at the FB page dog training advice and support on their puppy pages.

You don’t need to wake them if they are asleep to poo.

fitflopqueen · 30/12/2021 08:58

I would look at changing meal times? Earlier supper and later bedtime walk? At 4 months he should still be on lots of small meals so save a little of supper and give it at bed time.
Would also prefer to have a couple of weeks of broken sleep rather than clean up dog 💩 every morning. (I have an ancient cat who demands to go out in the early hours 🙄.
Set an alarm for about 3am and take him out, you can then move your wake up calls depending on how he is responding. He is still very young.

PollyRoulllson · 30/12/2021 09:00

Two Options re soiling in crate.

Get up in the night to let him out. A camera may help you work out what time his is soiling and then make sure you get him out before then

Set up his crate in a pen and leave the crate door open. He can then get out of the crate to poo and you then clean that up in the morning. Hopefully he then goes back into his crate to sleep and not roll in the poo.

Has the time of his feeding changed or the quantity of food he has changed to encourage this extra poo? Or you habits changed over the holiday period may have upset him a bit. Hopefully he will soon go back to normal and no night time pooing.

Re biting and niping puppies do this a lot and it hurts! The more bitey they get the more sleep they need.

Go slowly with the handling of him for the time being - so hopefully if he does not roll in poo anymore you can just do one brush stroke and reward him.

Re wet feet coming initially I would get him to walk over a towel a few times and then build up to handling his fett. Eg lift his feet touch one foot and reward. DO not try to do all feet to start with as this could become a big issue.

If you are lifting up a puppy give them warning. so say "lifting" treat and pick them up. If you just pick them up without warning they can get worrried and stressed.

If you are taking him somewhere eg outside or to the car best to use a lead and then he can not bite your hands etc but do not force him let him "think" he is making the choice to do these things.

Bushkin · 30/12/2021 09:00

Is he being fed at regular intervals so he’s not as likely to need to poo during night?

Ours is fed at 10am and 5pm with only a dentastick thing after the 5pm feed. Last poo is at around 8pm

BurbageBrook · 30/12/2021 09:01

Your problem is crate training. Horrible practice.

Bushkin · 30/12/2021 09:02

Should say at 4months food was 8am, 12pm, 5pm

Phrenologistsfinger · 30/12/2021 09:05

He’s a baby. He has no choice but to soil his bed because you are keeping him in a cage. No dog would enjoy soiling himself voluntarily. Puppies bite. He will pick up on your feelings and stress towards him. Poor little mite. Perhaps dog ownership isn’t for you and you should get a stuffed toy robot dog?

GoodnightGrandma · 30/12/2021 09:08

@BurbageBrook

Your problem is crate training. Horrible practice.

Agree. Hateful things.

OldWivesTale · 30/12/2021 09:09

This is so cruel and why I hate dog cages ("crates"). You are essentially forcing your dog ), who is still a baby, to sleep in his own shit. No dog enjoys sitting where it sleeps. Just let the dog out of his fucking cage!

OldWivesTale · 30/12/2021 09:09

Or better still, rehome the poor thing

Baystard · 30/12/2021 09:13

It must be amazing to be perfect oldwivestail

rainbowandglitter · 30/12/2021 09:17

We've used crate training with all of our dogs and they love them. It's their safe space and crate training is often recommended by dog trainers so no idea where the 'it's cruel' comments are coming from.

gogohm · 30/12/2021 09:25

Many dogs aren't fully toilet trained at 17 weeks. My dog had a pad in the room he slept in for nighttime until about 5 months - the crate is small though hence getting dirty. Do you have a utility or similar you could give him a nighttime toileting area rather than sleep in a crate (I personally think they are way too small)

YanTanTetheraPetheraPimp · 30/12/2021 09:25

Poor pup, he’s only 4 months old what do you expect?
Concentrate on toilet training during the day and pen (not crate) him at night with puppy pads. You need to be consistent and ffs stop making him lie in his own shit, that’s cruel and totally unnecessary.
Puppies can generally go for an hour maximum between toileting for each month of age so 4 hours for yours, NOT 8!
Your expectations are completely unrealistic and unreasonable OP.

Jenjenn · 30/12/2021 09:30

How long do you crate him for and where is the crate? Ours was (is) crated from 11-12 pm until 6-7 am. No food after 7pm. The crate is within arms reach from our bed and at any whinging he gets taken to the back garden. No play no food no chat, just out the back. At 4 months our puppy was taken out at least once during the night most nights. He slept through most nights from 5-6 months or so. Ours is a mini dachshund who are supposedly difficult to housetrain.

elelel · 30/12/2021 09:35

I put a partition in his crate so he only has space for his bed.

Original poster

Cappucinoextrachocolate · 30/12/2021 09:39

Thank you everyone, although comments such as " rehome' or "get a robot dog" are very dramatic. He was dry at night. I used to wake up at 6am and he was dry. Today it was earlier. Tomorrow it will be even earlier. Nowhere did I say I will not wake up with him. Nowhere did I say I put him in the crate and forget about him. He goes in his crate on his own, the door is always open during the day. The reason I asked here is because I wondered if you have any experience, before i decide to rehome and get a robot dog. And any experience of anything that might work in addition to waking during the night.
I know puppies nip. Yes it hurts. I also know that waking up in the middle of the night to take him out will lead to him growling and nipping my hands because I am interrupting his sleep. And this is no matter where he sleeps and how gentle I am trying to wake him up.

OP posts:

Wolfiefan · 30/12/2021 09:42

You don’t need to wake him up. He isn’t doing a poo in his sleep!
Switch feeding times. How many meals a day at the moment?
Or sleep close by and get up when he wakes to take him out to poo.

Original poster

Cappucinoextrachocolate · 30/12/2021 09:42

@Bushkin

Is he being fed at regular intervals so he’s not as likely to need to poo during night?

Ours is fed at 10am and 5pm with only a dentastick thing after the 5pm feed. Last poo is at around 8pm

Same feeding times. He poos at 8 or 9pm too.

OP posts:

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 30/12/2021 09:42

You don't need to wake him him, you just need to take him out the minute he does wake. As he gets older he'll be able to hold it longer and longer.

OldWivesTale · 30/12/2021 09:46

@baystard I am far from perfect but I'm not cruel to animals. I am tired of the way cages have become normalised and most people have no idea how to use them. In the right hands, with emotionally intelligent owners, they can just about be OK - but locking a puppy I'm a cage and making it sleep I'm its own shit is just cruel. How can anyone not know that?

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