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Original poster

Abandoning Crate Training - Letting Puppy sleep downstairs?

74 replies

bella1426 · 30/08/2021 16:36

Hi All, first time dog owner here so please be gentle :) We have recently gotten our dream golden retriever who is 4 months old now and she is the most wonderful dog. In spite of our inexperience she has been relatively easy to train in many ways. The one small issue we are having is around crate training. I realise we have made some mistakes with inconsistencies here but we're wondering whether to abandon it or keep going.
She will go in at night OK but around 3 or 4 will start barking and won't really stop until someone comes down and lets her out. (it's not for toileting, we've let her out for that and nothing) We've tried toughing it out, we've given in and let her out for cuddles, slept on the sofa with her, let her out and gone back to bed, on one or two occasions not put her in at night (yeah I know, we're a bit all over the place....)
I work from home so there is nearly always someone here, when I have needed to go out for an hour or two I've just let her stay out of the crate.
The thing is - any alone time in the house or downstairs she's had - overnight, day times, partial night - she's been good as gold, no barking, chewing anything, toileting - absolutely perfect. We have an outdoor area she plays in a lot and likes chewing the shed, swing set, lots of toys etc but seems to somehow have developed a respect for the indoors (wishful thinking??)
We're at a point now where we're wondering whether to buy a crate the next size up and persevere - and if we do how do we undo the bad work from the inconsistent practices? Or if we allow her to live and sleep outside the crate. It's an open plan kitchen/dining/living area with all electrics safely out of reach and no small choke toys so all very safe for her. The only thing of any value she could wreck is the fabric sofa but so far she has displayed no interest in doing anything to that but lie on it.
So my question is - would abandoning crate training now be potentially the right move for a happier more rested dog and household or is she likely to get a lot more destructive during the adolescent years? Any advice gratefully received!

OP posts:
SirSamuelVimes · 30/08/2021 16:42

I hate crate training. Don't understand why it's suddenly become best practice to shut your dog in a cage.

Goldens aren't destructive breeds, you day she's behaving in the house - so why does she need to be shut away?

Make sure she has a bed space that is tucked away and hers only (and kids need to know to stay out) and throw the cage away.

Quickchangeartiste · 30/08/2021 16:43

You mention buying a next size up crate - that could be part of the problem - she is feeling cramped.
That said, at around the same age, my lab decided he was done with his crate . I had bought him a soft bed for day time in the kitchen, where I spent most of my time and he just took himself there when tired. He was not a chewer so I didn’t try to get him back into the crate. I am not a fan anyway so was glad it sort of resolved itself.

pigsDOfly · 30/08/2021 16:47

I ditched mine when my dog was about 6 months old.

She also didn't chew anything so I felt happy for her to be free in the house.

If you feel you'd like her confined a bit you could always try a dog pen type arrangement, which will be more open and bigger than a crate.

If she's loose in the kitchen, is she likely to get into the rubbish bin or be able to open cupboards? That's something you might need to consider, especially as she gets a bit older and maybe a bit cheekier or greedier.

Original poster
bella1426 · 30/08/2021 16:48

I know SirSamuelVimes I instinctively feel the same, it just seems to be the thing that all dog owners do now and I just went along with it so good to get that perspective. I'm just wondering if we're lured into a false sense of security by her current good behaviour and mental stage yet to come?

OP posts:
SirSamuelVimes · 30/08/2021 16:51

If she's typical of the breed and you've done basic training you won't get a mental stage at all. Golden retrievers are very chilled! Ours basically sleeps all day.

LostArcher · 30/08/2021 16:59

We left our crate thingy unzipped from around 16 ish weeks. She objected and just has the run of downstairs. Never been any problems. I too have a funny feeling about shutting up an animal in a cage. The puppy support facebook page is evangelical about crate training. Much frothing if someone suggests that it doesn't work. I can understand that if you've got a destructive chewer you might want confinement for longer though.

Lycopodium8 · 30/08/2021 17:00

My 4 month old lab has a puppy pen for when she's left alone but she is a chewer. I like the pen as it has plenty of room for her to play

BiteyShark · 30/08/2021 17:00

I only used a crate to about aged 1 year when he decided he didn't want to go into it anymore. By that time I trusted him no to chew anything he shouldn't.

It works for some and not for others.

epponneee · 30/08/2021 19:15

I know lots of people are into crates but they aren't really the best way for dogs to sleep. Given the choice most dogs don't sleep in the same spot the whole night through. They like to get up and move around then go to sleep again.
I kind of think the message around crates has got lost somewhere. they can be useful to train your dog to go in for short periods of confinement e.g to give them space away from small children or to confine them when they are learning not to chew cables etc. I'm sure they weren't originally intended for dogs to be locked in for longer periods (I hope not anyway).

solvendie · 30/08/2021 20:06

We never bothered with a crate for our golden retriever. He doesn’t chew furniture. He likes to sleep on his bed in our bedroom at night and on a bed in the kitchen during the day. We let him have the run of the house if we are out and so far this has not been a problem. He’s 10 months.

Brownlongearedbat · 31/08/2021 15:38

I have only ever used crates when puppies are young enough to either need supervising (like nap time) or for safety - say the front door is open, or I'm cooking and don't want a puppy under my feet. I don't think I've ever still had one out beyond a dogs first birthday. We can safely leave our dogs shut in the kitchen though - they are too small to counter surf. In your shoes I would dispense with the crate altogether. I am often horrified that some people think it's okay to use a crate like a kennel, and will leave dogs in them for hours during the day (I don't mean you op, it's just things I read sometimes).

tabulahrasa · 31/08/2021 17:10

I think crates are better than just beds for being a nice clearly defined space that’s theirs - so if you ever go on holiday with them or they need to be in a different house it’s much easier on them with a crate, it also means they’re not worried about being in one of you ever have to use a dog Walker that uses them in transport or when they’re confined at the vets.

But if she’s not doing anything when alone that is dangerous... there’s no reason why you can’t just leave the door of it open for her.

AvantGardening · 31/08/2021 17:22

I’d let the dog sleep wherever works for you all but I’d also persevere with crate training.

I personally am pro crate training in case of emergency measures being required - for example if my dog needs to be kept overnight at a vets or if I’m in an accident and the only available temporary accommodation for him is crated/kennelled. I’d hate to add to his stress in a situation like that by crating being unfamiliar to him.

icedcoffees · 31/08/2021 18:54

I never crated trained mine and he's no worse off for it.

I do understand why people do BUT I don't think they're this amazing magical solution that some people make them out to be.

He's been crated at the vets post-surgery etc. with zero issues whatsoever despite never having slept in a crate at home in his life.

Tanfastic · 31/08/2021 19:02

I think crates serve a purpose. Our first dog hated it so we sacked it off after a couple of weeks and let him have free reign. However he wasn't a chewer! Our new pup however is a nightmare for chewing so I fully expect to keep the crate until that phase passes.

StarfishDish · 02/09/2021 09:33

@SirSamuelVimes

I hate crate training. Don't understand why it's suddenly become best practice to shut your dog in a cage.

Goldens aren't destructive breeds, you day she's behaving in the house - so why does she need to be shut away?

Make sure she has a bed space that is tucked away and hers only (and kids need to know to stay out) and throw the cage away.

@SirSamuelVimes We had to crate our lab as he was a destructive chewer Smile
dianebrewster · 02/09/2021 10:03

The crate for this one ended up in the garage 🤣

I thought I'd try crate training, after 30+yrs of dog ownership without. She hated it, my heart wasn't in it. A bit of destructiveness (cushion) while a pup - but she's not a destroyer of things, soft toys still have their eyes and ears and innards. Three dogs atm, all have free run of the house when I'm out, from the available evidence (dog shaped dents on the sofa and bed) they just sleep.

Abandoning Crate Training - Letting Puppy sleep downstairs?
SirSamuelVimes · 02/09/2021 10:25

A Labrador isn't the same breed as a golden retriever though. And the op's dog isn't a chewer.

StarfishDish · 02/09/2021 10:38

@SirSamuelVimes

A Labrador isn't the same breed as a golden retriever though. And the op's dog isn't a chewer.
@SirSamuelVimes I didn't say they were the same breed or the ops dog is a chewer. My comment was about your first post about why you don't understand its best practise to shut your dog away.
SirSamuelVimes · 02/09/2021 11:13

Ah I see. I misunderstood you.

I just think it's only very recently and quite suddenly seen as the best thing to do. Why? Why not train your dog not to chew, like everyone did before crates were a thing?

I guess I see it as lazy dog ownership. If your dog has behaviours that mean it can't be allowed out of a cage for chunks of time, is that not a sign it's a poorly trained dog?

If the problem is "my dog is a destructive chewer", out of the two solutions a) train the dog not to be, or b) put the dog in a cage so that it can't chew stuff, I think option a is the better choice.

StarfishDish · 02/09/2021 11:26

@SirSamuelVimes

Trust me, we tried many, many different things to stop him chewing things which worked when we were there but when we weren't there, it was straight back to chewing. He had Kongs, he had many chew toys, he had natural chews but he'd choose our door frame over any of them.

The vet even said it was the safer option for him to be locked in a crate on a night/when we're out because if the wood from the door frame splintered, it could cause a lot of damage in him.

tabulahrasa · 02/09/2021 11:27

“I guess I see it as lazy dog ownership. If your dog has behaviours that mean it can't be allowed out of a cage for chunks of time, is that not a sign it's a poorly trained dog?”

But they all start off poorly trained...

Floralnomad · 02/09/2021 13:26

Even if your dog chews a cage is not an essential item . We fenced off a portion of a room for ours using baby gates / pen panels so we had somewhere safe to put him if we had to go out or overnight before he was housetrained . It still gave him way more freedom to move about than a cage . WRT cage training for vet / groomers etc , my dog is more than happy to go in a cage in these places although I ensure that the cages are of a large enough size .

icedcoffees · 02/09/2021 15:40

I guess I see it as lazy dog ownership. If your dog has behaviours that mean it can't be allowed out of a cage for chunks of time, is that not a sign it's a poorly trained dog?

Puppies don't arrive fully trained and it can be really dangerous to leave a destructive puppy or dog loose in your house.

I agree that some owners shove their dogs in crates for an easy life, but they can be really good for dogs who are anxious or who would become destructive if left loose.

I always remember a thread on here from a few years ago - a lady normally crated her labrador but thought it would be fine to leave him while she went for a shower. He ate her sofa in ten minutes. The next time the dog was out of the crate, he chewed through a door.

That's just not safe for anyone.

icedcoffees · 02/09/2021 15:42

Even if your dog chews a cage is not an essential item . We fenced off a portion of a room for ours using baby gates / pen panels so we had somewhere safe to put him if we had to go out or overnight before he was housetrained

My dog could jump a pet gate by the time he was 4-5 months old. A pen would do nothing to contain him, either.

We never crated ours but I can see why using pens/gates just won't work for many dogs. Mine leapt the baby gate when young and a few months later he took off over our 5ft garden wall Grin