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Original poster

Abandoning Crate Training - Letting Puppy sleep downstairs?

74 replies

bella1426 · 30/08/2021 16:36

Hi All, first time dog owner here so please be gentle :) We have recently gotten our dream golden retriever who is 4 months old now and she is the most wonderful dog. In spite of our inexperience she has been relatively easy to train in many ways. The one small issue we are having is around crate training. I realise we have made some mistakes with inconsistencies here but we're wondering whether to abandon it or keep going.
She will go in at night OK but around 3 or 4 will start barking and won't really stop until someone comes down and lets her out. (it's not for toileting, we've let her out for that and nothing) We've tried toughing it out, we've given in and let her out for cuddles, slept on the sofa with her, let her out and gone back to bed, on one or two occasions not put her in at night (yeah I know, we're a bit all over the place....)
I work from home so there is nearly always someone here, when I have needed to go out for an hour or two I've just let her stay out of the crate.
The thing is - any alone time in the house or downstairs she's had - overnight, day times, partial night - she's been good as gold, no barking, chewing anything, toileting - absolutely perfect. We have an outdoor area she plays in a lot and likes chewing the shed, swing set, lots of toys etc but seems to somehow have developed a respect for the indoors (wishful thinking??)
We're at a point now where we're wondering whether to buy a crate the next size up and persevere - and if we do how do we undo the bad work from the inconsistent practices? Or if we allow her to live and sleep outside the crate. It's an open plan kitchen/dining/living area with all electrics safely out of reach and no small choke toys so all very safe for her. The only thing of any value she could wreck is the fabric sofa but so far she has displayed no interest in doing anything to that but lie on it.
So my question is - would abandoning crate training now be potentially the right move for a happier more rested dog and household or is she likely to get a lot more destructive during the adolescent years? Any advice gratefully received!

OP posts:
Miracle29 · 02/09/2021 16:18

I have a golden retriever and she's always had the run of downstairs. The first few nights we slept downstairs with her so we could let her out easier and just so she knows we were near by. We then brought a pet camera and put that on when we went to bed so we could keep an eye out. She never bothered at all she either sleeps on her bed or on the floor by the sofa but has never chewed anything. Have you tried leaving pup in the living room while you nip outside just to see how she gets on just little steps at a time? At first my goldie barked when I left so I waited for her to stop then entered the room and gave a treat. Id do the same at night but ignore her for as long as you can but if it's too much or you don't want to wake neighbours just wait for a quiet moment then go into her and put her on her bed and not say a word. I never spoke to her at night just put her back on her bed. Make sure she has a good walk before bed and lots of toys too

Miracle29 · 02/09/2021 16:23

And another thing is golden retrievers are very smart so if you aren't very consistent they will know eventually they'll get what they want. Mine knows to give me those eyes and she will get a treat. We don't allow her on the sofa so she's never had any interest in it, due mostly to the hair, she sheds so bad so that might be something to think about too

Floralnomad · 02/09/2021 18:08

@icedcoffees , my dog could jump a baby gate / pen easily enough as well but for some reason he never did , in the same way he doesn’t jump over our ornamental fence that keeps him on the patio .

icedcoffees · 02/09/2021 18:09

[quote Floralnomad]@icedcoffees , my dog could jump a baby gate / pen easily enough as well but for some reason he never did , in the same way he doesn’t jump over our ornamental fence that keeps him on the patio .[/quote]
Maybe it's just luck/breed.

Ours is a beagle so he's a bit of an escape artist anyway Grin

StarfishDish · 02/09/2021 18:58

@Floralnomad

Even if your dog chews a cage is not an essential item . We fenced off a portion of a room for ours using baby gates / pen panels so we had somewhere safe to put him if we had to go out or overnight before he was housetrained . It still gave him way more freedom to move about than a cage . WRT cage training for vet / groomers etc , my dog is more than happy to go in a cage in these places although I ensure that the cages are of a large enough size .
@Floralnomad Ours wasn't locked in his crate initially but was kept in the kitchen. He chewed our door frame, wooden table and chairs, ripped our floor up...
Stroller15 · 02/09/2021 21:36

We recently got a puppy so obviously my MN search and topics changed dramatically. I find it interesting how opinions on crate training changed. Around 2014 the majority were against it, and now seems to be the done thing. Our puppy is happier and more content outside the crate. She goes and sleeps on comfy and quieter spots around the house when tired. Also settles in her bed when we leave her at home for a short while. For us it has been an obvious choice.

Floralnomad · 02/09/2021 21:46

My issue with cages is that they do enable people get dogs who previously would not have done so , or would have got one and then got rid at the first sign of destruction .Now they can simply lock the dog in a cage while they go off to work for hours in the knowledge that the house will still be as they left it . I appreciate that not everyone who uses a cage abuses them but unfortunately many people do and the fact that it’s now the norm on a new puppy shopping list has made it acceptable .

StarfishDish · 02/09/2021 21:58

@Floralnomad I've got to disagree with you Smile It wasn't a case of locking him in the crate so we'd come back to the house the way we left it, it was so we could come leave the house and know he'll be safe! 😊

He's been out of his crate for two months now (we've dismantled it and put it away) and he's only chewed his bed which we're happy with Smile

Floralnomad · 02/09/2021 22:01

@StarfishDish , I didn’t say you did , and I did say I’m sure some people use them responsibly I was talking in general terms .

GuyFawkesDay · 02/09/2021 22:04

We are using one at night in our room, but only because he's still very small and is into everything....bins, wash baskets etc. So right not not trustworthy on his own yet. Once he is, he will be on a normal bed.

Downstairs we are using a puppy pen, but again will be able to give him the run of the kitchen/diner, and utility once he's older where he can't damage too much soft furnishings but has plenty of space

It's not about leaving him, more that he gets used to one for when it's needed.

Kathers92 · 02/09/2021 22:05

Neither of my dogs use a crate, while they were puppies they would stay in a room that was dog proofed. I personally think on the most part crates are cruel

Gherkingreen · 02/09/2021 22:10

We didn't crate our (Heinz 57 rescue,) puppy when he arrived three years ago, but we did put a baby gate across the utility room where he's always slept and still does, overnight.
During the day if we pop out he snoozes on the sofa but he takes himself to bed at night so we just go with that.
He's never been destructive with anything other than soft dog toys (terrier instinct) and he toilet trained easily, we've been fortunate in those respects, though we did and still do put a lot of work into training him. Lots of exercise, lots of fun explorative stuff, lots of praise and ...more exercise!
All dogs are different, I'd say just pick which approach you're going with, and stay consistent.

MarleneDietrichsSmile · 02/09/2021 22:13

Lucky you, go for it!

My oldest dog (lurcher) was never in a crate. Very sweet obedient girl, anxious to please, happy with her dog bed

Second dog, also a lurcher, is a destroyer. He works away at things, for example eating/chewing the wooden window sill, gnawing through the table legs, stealing jackets and pulling buttons off, pulling things off the table to investigate and chew. Eating wires. Eating DDog1’s dog bed.

Yes he is “badly trained” as he’s only 4 months and work in progress (I pray he outgrows the destructive chewing).

Your dog sounds like my old girl, and some dogs you can trust

pigsDOfly · 02/09/2021 22:19

@Floralnomad

My issue with cages is that they do enable people get dogs who previously would not have done so , or would have got one and then got rid at the first sign of destruction .Now they can simply lock the dog in a cage while they go off to work for hours in the knowledge that the house will still be as they left it . I appreciate that not everyone who uses a cage abuses them but unfortunately many people do and the fact that it’s now the norm on a new puppy shopping list has made it acceptable .
Anyone who thinks its acceptable to shut a dog up in a crate for hours at a time, or indeed shut a dog up in the house all day, while they go off to work, is not going to be a good dog owner in every other way, unfortunately.

Shutting a dog up for long periods of time, whether that's in a crate or just in the house is, highly likely, going to result in a dog with behavioural issues, which I imagine, would result in the owners most likely rehoming the dog anyway.

Many people have crates for their puppies and they use them correctly.

Like a lot of things, it's not the product that's at fault.

idontlikealdi · 02/09/2021 22:37

I've had dogs for 49 years and have never used a crate. I why would you cage an animal that presumably you want as part of your life? (Apart from small furies!)?

tabulahrasa · 02/09/2021 23:24

@Floralnomad

My issue with cages is that they do enable people get dogs who previously would not have done so , or would have got one and then got rid at the first sign of destruction .Now they can simply lock the dog in a cage while they go off to work for hours in the knowledge that the house will still be as they left it . I appreciate that not everyone who uses a cage abuses them but unfortunately many people do and the fact that it’s now the norm on a new puppy shopping list has made it acceptable .
They’d have been shut in a bathroom, kitchen or utility without a crate - it’s hardly an improvement when the real issue there is the amount of time, not where they’re left.
WeAllHaveWings · 02/09/2021 23:39

@Floralnomad

Even if your dog chews a cage is not an essential item . We fenced off a portion of a room for ours using baby gates / pen panels so we had somewhere safe to put him if we had to go out or overnight before he was housetrained . It still gave him way more freedom to move about than a cage . WRT cage training for vet / groomers etc , my dog is more than happy to go in a cage in these places although I ensure that the cages are of a large enough size .
Ours chewed skirting boards and dug up and chewed carpets hurting his mouth with splinters and feet with the carpet grippers. It was only at night so much safer for him to be in a crate overnight.

It was nothing to do with training, a lot of labs need to chew until they are 12 - 18 months old. Ours just stopped when he was fully grown and the huge crate was given away.

Mantlemoose · 02/09/2021 23:48

Had dogs for over 30 years, never needed a crate yet. Lazy ownership if you use crates.

Medievalist · 02/09/2021 23:56

Mantlemoose - totally agree.

Floralnomad · 03/09/2021 00:55

Obviously no dog should be left for hours a day , but in the real world lots of people work and have dogs and in my opinion it’s worse if the dog is confined to a very small space where he has limited movement . I’m not out for an argument , each to their own , but IMO dogs should not be kept in cages in their home .

toomuchlaundry · 03/09/2021 01:03

Our dog used to take himself to bed in his crate when he thought we were staying up too late!

AcrossthePond55 · 03/09/2021 01:11

Both our late, lamented Lab and our current Dachsie were crate trained. But once they got used to them and were willing to be crated and peaceful in the crate it was only used if it was needed for travel or to give them 'private space'. They both had beds to sleep i When our Lab became a 'senior' she used to crate herself around small children who didn't know how to behave around a dog or if she was 'fearful' (fireworks, etc). It was her 'safe space'.

RinkyStinky1 · 03/09/2021 01:13

@Mantlemoose

Had dogs for over 30 years, never needed a crate yet. Lazy ownership if you use crates.
Agreed
StarfishDish · 03/09/2021 06:14

@Mantlemoose

Had dogs for over 30 years, never needed a crate yet. Lazy ownership if you use crates.
@Mantlemoose

Not lazy at all. It was used for his own safety. He only needed the large crate but was bought the XXL crate so had more than enough space.

StarfishDish · 03/09/2021 06:16

@toomuchlaundry

Our dog used to take himself to bed in his crate when he thought we were staying up too late!
@toomuchlaundry Yes! Ours did this! Then moved onto whining as he wanted his bed time treat Grin