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Original poster

Puppy targeting toddler

75 replies

Puppalicious · 27/05/2021 17:27

I strongly suspect I will get my arse handed to me for being a fool - I must be a masochist. But I need advice. My 4 month old rough collie puppy has over the last few days started to seriously target my 19 month old. It’s clearly herding behaviour, but she’s leaping at her with mouth open, knocking her over, nibbling at her arms. It’s not directed at anyone else, not my 5 or 9 yo. Today when I was upstairs with a relative looking after them all downstairs, the puppy apparently targeted her repeatedly, jumping on her and my LO now has a big scratch near her eye.
Up to now, the puppy has been lovely - her sweet and friendly temperament has been much complimented. Clearly she sees LO as a litter mate - and LO will, if we take our eyes off her at all, will run around her to entice a chase. Yes, we were stupid to get a puppy with a toddler. But it’s done now. Is this situation salvageable or do we need to return puppy to breeder before LO gets injured and a good puppy gets ruined? The kids will be devastated if she goes and I will be deeply ashamed. But it would be worse if my LO suffers a bad facial injury. I have emailed a trainer/behaviourist but she has no appointments until end June. Should I see if we can make progress to solve this in the meantime but wait for the behaviourists input?

OP posts:
Original poster
Puppalicious · 27/05/2021 17:50

Oh, I’ve just realised something to the 2 worst incidents - Tuesday in the park and today in the garden. In both cases there were other dog(s) there - could she be getting hyped up by their presence?

OP posts:
WagsPlease · 27/05/2021 22:02

I think you need to keep them apart at all times. Get a room divider or keep puppy in separate room behind a baby gate

Original poster
Puppalicious · 27/05/2021 22:31

Yes, I think that is what we have to aim for, although it isn’t always easy! The puppy loves being outside which is handy but the LO will try to run out to her if she can get the door open. Our usual minder is v cautious around the dog but the relative was playing outside with LO, her dog and my puppy and perhaps didn’t realise the extent to which they must be kept apart.

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JayAlfredPrufrock · 27/05/2021 22:33

Return to the breeder. This will not end well.

Original poster
Puppalicious · 27/05/2021 22:50

@JayAlfredPrufrock, do you think so? Do you think it’s not possible to manage? My DH really doesn’t want to return her.

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AdriannaP · 27/05/2021 22:52

Your first priority should be your child’s well-being and safety. Can you honestly say your child is safe?

30somethingandstillsingle · 27/05/2021 22:53

This is just normal puppy behaviour! Not even related to herding Confused

Don't leave them alone unsupervised, work on def control with the pup and don't be afraid to give them time out. At this age they are teething and I liken them to over tired toddlers. Be consistent, your daughter will end up with scratches, it's part and parcel of having a pup.

30somethingandstillsingle · 27/05/2021 22:54

Def= self Hmm

Moonshine11 · 27/05/2021 22:54

Keep them apart until some training is in place.
Your puppy is very young and just needs to understand, sounds like she’s trying to play with your DD instead of doing it on purpose to cause harm.
Training will make a difference.

PixieDust28 · 27/05/2021 22:55

Send the puppy back.

First thing I would do, no hesitation. Yes kids might be upset but the dog has to go for a good reason. They'll be fine.

PixieDust28 · 27/05/2021 22:56

Also, I don't think IMO this is normal behaviour. Every puppy I've met/had has never done this to anyone let alone a young child.

Turquoisesol · 27/05/2021 22:56

I have a collie and children. My youngest is a lot older than yours and they spend very limited and managed time together. Most of the day they are at opposite sides of a stair gate. It’s just too hard to manage otherwise.

GyozaPoser · 27/05/2021 22:56

Send the dog back. A herding breed that's tackling toddlers isn't going to end well.

Turquoisesol · 27/05/2021 22:58

If puppy nips or mouths anyone at all. Everyone must get up and leave the room immediately. Leaving pup alone for 10 seconds. This will teach pup error of her ways. This has been working with out pup - also 4 months

ComDummings · 27/05/2021 22:58

@GyozaPoser

Send the dog back. A herding breed that's tackling toddlers isn't going to end well.
Agree with this unfortunately ^
OytheBumbler · 27/05/2021 23:03

Your puppy is 4 months old-just a baby! She doesn't know how to behave yet so you need to train her in what you expect her behaviour to be.

This will be difficult because you have children to manage too but it's definitely doable.

Never leave them alone together and be firm in the behaviour you expect. She will learn but you need to give her a chance.

Original poster
Puppalicious · 27/05/2021 23:07

@Moonshine11, she’s definitely trying to play with her I think, not helped by my DD being absolutely obsessed with her (I’ve read those articles posted on here about not letting your child fixate on a dog, but easier said than done). Perhaps that’s why the behaviour seems to have escalated in a park she associates with playing with other puppies and in the garden with a dog today. But my DD is not a puppy! I can distract her with a “watch me” in the garden (not out and about) but I wouldn’t trust other people to be able to do that at all. Perhaps trying to keep them segregated unless I’m there to train control, in the hope she’ll reduce the behaviour over time?
I would be deeply ashamed at sending the puppy back (and obviously would never get a dog again) but if my DD is really at risk I guess we shouldn’t really have a choice.

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Stichintime · 27/05/2021 23:15

I think you absolutely need to keep them seperate. The puppy sees your toddler as a playmate, she's not. Also start laying down boundaries with your LO around approaching the dog, chasing etc. If you manage to get a good boundary between them both, it might work. You're going to have to work hard and think about the practicalities round gates etc.

GettingItOutThere · 27/05/2021 23:19

sorry to say but a herding dog with a toddler will not end well, unless you are separating them, training this dog a lot and eventually lots of exercise.

i would send the dog back.

collies are not a breed i would have in a house with small toddlers/kids, the do nip, they do herd, they are wonderful but also hard work

douliket · 27/05/2021 23:26

Do not send the puppy back, what kind of ridiculous advice is that. We have an 8 month old puppy,a mix between a jr and Pom. We also have a twenty month old toddler. All this nipping and leaping is playing and part and parcel of a young pup growing up. Seriously, if a puppy wasn't doing this,there would be something wrong. They are like toddlers,learning every day what's acceptable and what's not. If you said this was an adult dog displaying these behaviours,then yes of course,it would have to go. But there is a big difference in a 2 year old child biting another child compared to a 50'yr old adult biting a child. All that needs doing is keep bothering baby and puppy away from each other when unsupervised,spend plenty of time with both encouraging gentle play. Play fun games for both. When with baby,let baby hand treats to the pup. Puppy just needs to realise that this hyper ball of energy that pulls and tugs out of him is just playing just as toddler needs to learn that puppies are not toys. All will settle in few months. Am still laughing at the "give him straight back parade"😂😂

Scandicc · 27/05/2021 23:53

This is for sure normal puppy behaviour! The reason why she targets the smallest child is because the child has never set boundaries or told the puppy when enough is enough (naturally!) The dog will see the toddler as the perfect playmate.
This is common with breeds that’s mentally tough and needs clear boundaries.
It will pass, just make sure they are never alone, which you obviously will. In my opinion you can wait this one out.

opinionminion · 27/05/2021 23:54

Please put your child first, you will never be able to guarantee with absolute certainty that you will be able to keep them apart.

cocoloco987 · 28/05/2021 05:07

I don't think this is normal puppy behaviour emerging now. That would have appeared at 8-9 weeks and every puppy I've ever done across it tends to peak at around the 10 week mark then by 4 months is improving with consistency. OP is there and says it's herding behaviour and this is likely with the breed. I don't think the puppy is seeing your dc as a litter mate it's more of a seeing them as a sheep or other small animal to be chased . As pup gets bigger the herding will probably escalate to the older dc but they will be less triggering to the behaviour if they are calmer. Herding in a herding breed is difficult to resolve and puppies and toddlers don't mix at the best of times but your pup is very young so getting a behaviourist (vet recommended) at this stage might help. I'd try that first before the rehoming option

cupsofcoffee · 28/05/2021 05:54

It sounds totally normal to me.

OP has said the puppy only does it with the toddler and that's because the toddler lacks the ability to set boundaries and let the puppy know her behaviour isn't acceptable. It's the adults' job to do that and unfortunately it seems that the adults are the problem here (as is normally the case with dog issues like this).

I don't mean that as a criticism either - owning a puppy is hard, hard work and it's easy to relax too early or to forget how tough it is.

Original poster
Puppalicious · 28/05/2021 07:16

@cupsofcoffee yes, the toddler isn’t letting the dog know it’s unacceptable, rather the opposite. My eldest two are rowdy enough, but my 4 year old is slightly wary of dogs, if she were to do this to him he would cry and the fun would stop immediately. She jumped up at him when she was 11 weeks old and overtired, he cried, she was put in her pen and there hasn’t really been a repeat.whereas the toddler has been finding it absolutely hilarious to be chased, she has just been getting up and keeping going, running around the puppy to get her to start etc. And so I think the behaviour has escalated. They are just a puppy and a baby so this is of course on us adults - if you could tell us what we should be doing I would be happy to hear all tips!
I don’t think it’s coincidence she got injured yesterday when her normal v safety conscious minder was at an appointment, but even she told me the puppy jumped up at toddler in the v brief time she went to the toilet once. I should have had the puppy upstairs with me, and will do this at least in future (she had no need for further exercise at that point, had two active walks with me).

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