Do you say NO to your dogs?

[hopingtobehappiness]

My parents have a new puppy and the last time they had a young dog was 25 years ago, back then I remember going with my Dad to dog training classes. They used the shake the tin of coins to stop unwanted behaviour, although mostly it was praise for good behaviour, treats, pats and talking it that high pitched voices only used for babies/ puppies. I remember doing to awards with their two labs.

They have told me they can't tell the new puppy No or use a sound to prevent unwanted behaviour. I personally use ahaha noise that I say with my dog occasionally and I will also say NO or STOP firmly also to the kids too. They say this is aversion training and I disagree. To me the aversion training is spraying water, air horn zapping / citrus collars ( also very popular back in the day.) What do you think and do?

My dogs totally understand No and also understand "don't be a dick" and look suitable abashed.
Mainly positive reinforcement but the occasional no is essential when about to roll in shit or eat some puk it whatever other disgusting thing they get up to.

No can be a command to stop... but then the dog understands it as stop, not the word no in other contexts, which was the point people were trying to make.

That it can be a confusing command because if you use it in another context where stop doesn’t make sense then it’s useless.

What other context would you be using it with a dog other than to stop what they’re doing?

[quote IrmaFayLear]@tabulahrasa - that’s just silly to say “oh my child would never be near a hot item” or “my dog would never pick up an old sandwich” etc etc.

Because they just might. And you would need to stop them fast.[/quote]
It’s not silly at all...

Who is letting non verbal children be next to things hot enough to burn them? Or letting dogs with no training loose in random places?

@UhtredRagnarson

No can be a command to stop... but then the dog understands it as stop, not the word no in other contexts, which was the point people were trying to make.

That it can be a confusing command because if you use it in another context where stop doesn’t make sense then it’s useless.

What other context would you be using it with a dog other than to stop what they’re doing?

My point exactly!

If they are about to eat some food note the about. You say NO what does that mean to the dog who is just standing there?

Your dog does not understand NO.

I use “ahah” rather than no, but it’s the same for the purposes of this discussion. My dog would stop. She understands what that sound means.

It is hard for a human to understand just the word NO.

You are walking towards me I shout NO, do you stop walking towards me, do you ask me what I meant. What I actually want you to do is to put your cup of coffee down. smile

Yes, if I’m walking towards you and you shout no, I stop walking. If you want me to put down a cup of coffee you either say “no” before I even lift it. Or say no as I’m lifting it. However you didn’t include the presence of the cup of coffee in your “you’re walking towards me, I shout NO” so no one here could predict that you meant anything other than stop walking. Silly example

I use no and she understands clearly. It's tone of voice which makes all the difference.

It is interesting how we all train differently

Yet you go on to repeatedly insinuate that other posters dogs are stressed or confused about the ambiguity of a no command, despite posters telling you their dog perfectly understands the commands.

You can have your own opinion and training methods but the constant need to infer that a no command is wrong for every dog is laughable. The condescending sigh to moondust too is very churlish.

That it can be a confusing command because if you use it in another context where stop doesn’t make sense then it’s useless.
What other context would you be using it with a dog other than to stop what they’re doing?
Exactly. If you drill down enough “leave it” could be too ambiguous if you use it to mean leave to food, or leave the rubbish on the street, or leave the toy etc.

The word ‘no’ is just a word. Some dogs may learn to stop whatever they’re doing and pay attention to their owners when they hear it. They can then be rewarded for that attention or redirected and rewarded, in which case, used in that way, it becomes a positive interrupter, as it’s just a sound that means ‘oh, I need to stop and look at my human’.

I choose a different ‘sound’ because I personally feel that ‘no’ is used constantly by all of us every day and because for me, again just me personally, it does have negative associations.

Once we’ve got past the initial puppy stage and have secure responses to specific cue words, I would rarely need to use the ‘sound’ because my dog would/should respond instantly to ‘leave’, ‘come’, ‘drop’, ‘flat’ (instant down) ‘halt’ etc so I can keep them safe that way. While they are youngsters the positive interrupter means I can always get their attention in a positive way and that instantly distracts them from imminent danger. That, alongside environmental/situational management, is why you don’t get situations which are the equivalent of ‘Penelope’ touching something hot. Basically setting them up for success.

When the doorbell goes. He gives a woof. I say no he stops.

When the doorbell goes my dogs no longer bark but they have been trained to go to their beds when the bell rings - no command needed. The door bell is the cue to go to their bed. Took about 2 minutes to train. Dogs have a clear behaviour to do and they understand what is needed of them.

If you are having to say No each time the door bell rings they have not learnt not to bark when the doorbell rings.....?

Do you enjoy being so patronising? I am sorry I did not mean to be appear patronising just offering an alternative view

@PollyRoulson

When the doorbell goes. He gives a woof. I say no he stops.

When the doorbell goes my dogs no longer bark but they have been trained to go to their beds when the bell rings - no command needed. The door bell is the cue to go to their bed. Took about 2 minutes to train. Dogs have a clear behaviour to do and they understand what is needed of them.

If you are having to say No each time the door bell rings they have not learnt not to bark when the doorbell rings.....?

Do you enjoy being so patronising? I am sorry I did not mean to be appear patronising just offering an alternative view

It is a woof. Not a torrent of barks like next doors dog. As soon as I stand and sat 'no' he stops. Its handy as if I am in the garden I cant hear the door bell so his woof tells me there is someone there. He doesnt have a bed. Never used one so its on top of the wardrobe for my cats he sleeps on the landing. I have no doubt I could train him to go and lie there, but like I say, his woof is not a problem.

And the 'sigh' comment was patronising. What else did you mean by it if not to come across as somehow better than me?

The sign was actually directed at another poster who had not read all the threads and not you.

So if you are happy with the bark then no issue

@PollyRoulson

The sign was actually directed at another poster who had not read all the threads and not you.

So if you are happy with the bark then no issue

On my phone, the sigh come directly after you told me I should just recall my dog. So the layout was obviously changed.

I agree, there is no issue with using 'no' if everyone is happy.

I save 'NO' in a really fierce voice for drop that fucking squirrel

But only use it for serious things

Prefer treats and can shaking

My cats probably understand a lot more than they make out they can, but I find 'no' works for them when they're trying to steal food, pluck the carpet/curtains/sofa.

There are some very holier than thou posters on The Doghouse.

Makes me suspect they actually own some fur fabric on a string and not a real dog....

I remember a horrible poster when I first acquired dog who told me that dog’s training was ruined because he was allowed in the garden unaccompanied and that raw food was the only way and one could easily keep it in one’s “outhouse”. Hmmmph. Let me look for that outhouse....

I have 2 pretty well behaved dogs and rarely have to use the word "no". I do use it occasionally though and they both understand what it means.

If they start barking in the garden, which they don't very often unless the morons next door are out there making a racket, I usually only have to open the back door and look at them and they stop. If they don't I say" no" but just in a normal voice and they stop

My friend insists her dog understand what no means. She uses no for everything, sit, stop, get down, stop barking, come back, drop it. Things like her dog picking up food in the street, she will see her dog going towards a dropped kebab and she'd say NO. The dog would stop but that doesn't mean it's understood that NO meant to leave food alone, she got the desired response but it doesn't mean the dog actually understood NO in the context of don't eat the food. The dog just stopped and hasn't learnt that for next time, it can't have the food in the street.

My dog (a working lab) leaves food alone now but it took a lot of walking back and forth and teaching her as a puppy the "leave it" command or "drop it" on the rare occasion she picked food up. She's 4 now and she can walk past a manky kebab or discarded food in the street without stopping to try and get it and she doesn't take food that's been left about at home such a sandwich left on the chair arm when I answer the door, I'd say leave it or tell her to wait and she wouldn't move until I returned. If I just said NO before leaving a room she wouldn't understand what I'm wanting her to not do.

My dog looks like she understands her name because when I say it she stops and waits for a command but she's been trained to have that response, if she's working it's whistles and hand gestures, I could have trained the same response to the word and hand gesture of wanker and get the same action from her, which where I think the posters who are saying dogs don't understand what NO means are coming from? The dog has been trained to respond when it hears a certain word in a certain tone, that doesn't mean it understands the concept of no, it's responded how it's been conditioned to.

And I should add, my dog isn't perfect and can be a goofy twat at times, in case I sounded like a have a perfect dog. I don't.

I guess it comes down to the fact that ‘no’ works for some people/dogs a lot of the time. And if it works for you, that’s fine of course but it doesn’t mean it is considered the optimum method nowadays

Most modern trainers tend towards the approach of @PollyRoulson as the ‘teach the dog what you want in a situation instead’ approach works with less fall out, less potential stress and better results in the long term for most dogs and owners.

So my dogs are trained a quiet ‘drop’ command for any squirrel based incident which means I would have no need to use a fierce voice, (which for one of mine in particular would totally freak him out) my dog understands exactly what it should do in that situation and thats therefore my preference
But just because it is my preference, it doesn’t mean it has to be other people’s

If it works for the owner and dog then it's fine to use.

I have come to the conclusion that you can tie yourself in knots about what you should or shouldn't do depending on the trainer or methods in favour but ultimately if the dog understands and doesn't have any behaviour that is annoying the owner or others when in public then that's the goal.

I use an interrupter, sometimes no, sometimes an ahah. But for some reason he always recognises a deep intake of breath as 'stop what I am doing'

Well to be fair the fierce NO at the squirrel incident was surprise, horror and basically me yelping

I forgot all MY training

@Undisclosedlocation

I guess it comes down to the fact that ‘no’ works for some people/dogs a lot of the time. And if it works for you, that’s fine of course but it doesn’t mean it is considered the optimum method nowadays

Most modern trainers tend towards the approach of @PollyRoulson as the ‘teach the dog what you want in a situation instead’ approach works with less fall out, less potential stress and better results in the long term for most dogs and owners.

So my dogs are trained a quiet ‘drop’ command for any squirrel based incident which means I would have no need to use a fierce voice, (which for one of mine in particular would totally freak him out) my dog understands exactly what it should do in that situation and thats therefore my preference
But just because it is my preference, it doesn’t mean it has to be other people’s

I don't just use no. He drops, leave, stands, stops, gets down, sits, lies, paw. I just use no when I want him to stop or not do something

@Moondust001

YES

@PollyRoulson

When the doorbell goes. He gives a woof. I say no he stops.

When the doorbell goes my dogs no longer bark but they have been trained to go to their beds when the bell rings - no command needed. The door bell is the cue to go to their bed. Took about 2 minutes to train. Dogs have a clear behaviour to do and they understand what is needed of them.

If you are having to say No each time the door bell rings they have not learnt not to bark when the doorbell rings.....?

Do you enjoy being so patronising? I am sorry I did not mean to be appear patronising just offering an alternative view

2 minutes to train a dog to go to its bed when someone knocks on the door or the door belle rings? I just don't believe that.

@PollyRoulson

When the doorbell goes. He gives a woof. I say no he stops.

When the doorbell goes my dogs no longer bark but they have been trained to go to their beds when the bell rings - no command needed. The door bell is the cue to go to their bed. Took about 2 minutes to train. Dogs have a clear behaviour to do and they understand what is needed of them.

If you are having to say No each time the door bell rings they have not learnt not to bark when the doorbell rings.....?

Do you enjoy being so patronising? I am sorry I did not mean to be appear patronising just offering an alternative view

And actually,- all the stuff about training your dog not to react or bark at the doorbell- I m happy for my dog to bark to let people outside that's she's there.