Told by the farmer to keep dog on a lead?

[mudstuck]

I was walking my dog through a field and the farmer came up on his tractor and complained that he had seen my dog off the lead. There are no sheep or livestock around, and I would always always put her on a lead if I there was any chance of encountering any livestock.I did raise the fact that the field was empty with him and he said there are young pheasants going about... I apologised and agreed to keep her on a lead in future. However on reflection I am wondering if he is in the right to ask that of us? My dog doesn't have a very high prey drive at all and lives happily with three house cats. I don't allow her to chase wildlife although her recall, even though it's good, is not 100% and we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer. She probably would chase a pheasant if she saw one running away but she would never catch it. What do you think? Like I said I am happy to keep her on a lead just for an easy life. I live close to the farmer and don't want the trouble/conflict. Just wondering who is in the right..

I have not read the whole thread, so this may have been covered already. But it is lambing season, or close to it, with pregnant ewes in fields. I know farmers are dreading the advent of people with their dogs this spring, as so many have bought puppies during last year, and of course do not bother to train tham. An out of control dog can wreak absolute havoc in a flock so please, if you must go near livestock, always have the dog on a lead. An no, your dog is not an exception.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/heartbreak-deer-chased-two-tiny-23946552

Today 13:26 CovidCorvid

I think it's fair enough thinking it's an empty field and having your dog off lead but now the farmer has explained about the pheasants then you need to do as you've been asked. Pheasants are livestock too, they provide an income via organised shoots.“

Agree with this. Not something I would have considered, tend to think of livestock as sheep and cows. Now that you’ve been asked though and told why then yes, you must comply.
There must be other public footpaths where you can safely go off lead if you want to.

@LadyWhistledownsQuill

we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer.

In which case your dog is quite likely to chase sheep, cows and other livestock. A dog that will chase deer and ignore sheep is pretty much a unicorn.

If, like me, you know you have a dog that may chase livestock then you either keep the dog on lead or walk it in a public park where there's never going to be any livestock.

Except my dog is never off lead around livestock. Did you not read the bit where I said he goes on her lead if there is even a chance of encountering livestock's?

@themalamander

The outdoor access code in Scotland is very clear.

There is no need for her to be off lead in the woods your husband takes her too, because she isnt allowed to run around or even be walking away from your husband. She needs to be on a lead, or under close control, but as you've said here that she has chased things and might run off then she is not a suitable candidate for close control. At the moment, she is not allowed to be running around in woodland. She must be at heel, so she may as well be on a lead.

It's not just about chasing and biting at the birds; just running through the undergrowth will terrorise them and result in deaths/abandoned nests and hatchlings.

Now if you and your husband want to ignore it because it's an outdoor access code and not something which will get you arrested then fine, we cant stop you. It just makes you both a bit dickish though.

To be fair they do stick to the paths, and she does listen to my husband better than me. He can tell her to leave a squirrel and she does it. So I think she's okay off the lead with him.

So to clarify for all

On a public right of way your dog should be on a lead or under close control/at heel

Close control / at heel means also on the right of way not just somewhere in the same field / wood as the right of way

A right of way through a field is just that. It doesn't give access to the whole field.

If you are on open access land between March and July your dog should be on a short lead to protect ground nesting birds and other young animals

Just because 'everyone else' is letting their dogs off lead doesn't mean you should too.

Anyone have any issues with any of that?

[quote Ineedaneasteregg]@Wombatt
The farmer can insist the dog is on a leash or kept at heel on grassland during nesting season.
That is the law in Scotland.[/quote]
No it is definitely not.

You would be a great politician OP. You totally ignore the posts which show you the guidance you have ignored, and give very good reason for that guidance but you make up a narrative of farmers being the devil for shooting your dog for no reason, and go on and in about it (while still ignoring the actual problem of you ignoring the very strong guidance/your responsibilities) and you only really respond to the people who are saying things you can absolutely back up (like being sure you always use a lead around livestock).

The facts are that you broke the outdoor access code by having a dog prone to chasing animals off lead, and your husband broke it by allowing the dog to run around woodland. Then there is just the being courteous when you are on farmland. Even if there is no livestock, when you are crossing farmland, your dog should be on a lead. It is the responsible thing to do. Your dog can be off leaf crossing moors and wild "private land" but when on farmland, keep it on a lead. You cannot always see what is in a field, you dont know what the field has been treated with, you cannot always pick up after your dog if it's gone off to toilet.

You are allowed reasonable access. You can cross the land. You can be on it respectfully. You do not have a right to freely roam and do what you like, or let your dog run over fields because you are ruining crops, silage, risking it running near livestock over a hill which you couldnt see.

@mudstuck
It's not about fucking squirrels! It's about the ground nesting birds which your husband cannot see if your dog is trampling them in the undergrowth. I dont believe for a second that your dog doesnt ever wall through the ferns or walk over and around fallen logs or go sniffing around trees off the path.

You are determined to be irresponsible because you think you should be able to do what you like. You want to access part, but you're not interested in the reasonable part. You're not interested in doing what is best for the wildlife in your own bloody area. Just like every other idiot dog owner who thinks they're "only playing".

@mudstuck

Honestly if someone can point us to the law that says dogs must be on lead this time of year in Scotland then please do?

I was genuinely concerned so told my husband to stop letting her off as he takes her to the woods on his lunch. He has looked into it and can only find guidance. This guidance says on lead or under close control..

It’s not really about the law though is it? It’s about common sense.

I started reading this when it was posted and I can’t believe OP is still arguing her case.
Keep your dog on a lead!!

Why were you in their field? Trespassing with an off lead dog on farmland. I'm not sure why you are even questioning "who is right?"

I despair !

@themalamander
So according to you every dog should be on a lead at all times? Good luck with that one.
You'd explode if you came down to our local woodlands, the amount of owners who let their dogs chase wildlife and just shrug it off as natural or let their dogs out of their sight. At least my dog is always in my sight and not allowed to chase wildlife.

@AC12reject

We dont really have trespassing in Scotland with farmland. Keep up.
The OP has done plenty wrong; you dont need to make up a crime which doesnt even exist in the country she lives in.

A question for all the sane, sensible and kind posters on this thread: isn’t it weird how the ‘special people’ with ‘special dogs’ are determined to ignore actual, demonstrable facts in favour of their own, misguided opinions. It’s as though they’re listening to their own voice echoing round their heads 🤔 The endless justification about why they and their dogs are entitled to do exactly what they want and feck the consequences for anyone else, farmer, gamekeeper, wild birds, livestock etc. They truly walk (with their off lead dogs) amongst us. Or, best case scenario, with their grudgingly on lead dogs 🐩

@themalamander
Also my dog is not prone to chasing wildlife. She has chased a few squirrels in her life when we were caught off guard but show me a dog who hasn't. We take precautions around livestock. Enough said.

@HarebrightCedarmoon
Was going to say the same. Here it’s have dog on lead if livestock in field and keep to the path- if field is empty then dogs under close control. The fields are used predominantly for sheep and cattle but get moved around so when empty most dog walkers do keep to path and under control- it’s not a pheasant or ground bird areas such as heavily used by the farmer for his own stock. You did the right thing OP

@mudstuck

As I said, an excellent politician. You've just totally ignored what I actually said and created your own narrative to make it sound like you're not the problem.

Your dog can be off lead almost anywhere really, when it is not nesting season. But it is nesting season so no, dogs should not be off lead.

The farmland issue. It really is just courtesy and the responsible way to behave. Outside of nesting season, have your dog off lead but when you need to cross farmland, stick the lead on until you're safely off the field.

That's what I've said. But you've totally changed it just to make yourself sound better and make me sound intolerant. It's not a nice way to behave toward other people really, is it? Twisting their words into something they didnt say? My children dont even do that.

[quote themalamander]@AC12reject

We dont really have trespassing in Scotland with farmland. Keep up.
The OP has done plenty wrong; you dont need to make up a crime which doesnt even exist in the country she lives in.[/quote]
I've done fuck all wrong. I had a dog off lead but under control in a completely empty field. I was asked to put her on a lead and I complied.

The interacting laws are:

Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 (LRA) and the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (the Code), and key nature conservation legislation, in particular the Habitats Regulations and the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Act 2004 (NCA

Which say that

In Scotland on grassland, moorland, forest, Loch shores and seashores during the breeding season dogs need to be on a short leash or at heel.

"on a short lead or under close control”

"A short lead is taken to be two metres and ‘under close control’ means that the dog is able to respond to your commands and is kept close at heel."

OP it is really clear.

You have the right to be on the land but during breeding season your dog needs to be on lead or close at heel.

On the above listed terrain.

So the Habitats regulations and nature conservation (Scotland) 2004 appears to be the key legal act.

"Ineedaneasteregg
@Wombatt
The farmer can insist the dog is on a leash or kept at heel on grassland during nesting season.
That is the law in Scotland.
No it is definitely not."*
*
This would be worth a read

www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/sites/default/files/2017-06/Publication%202015%20-%20Taking%20the%20Lead%20-%20Managing%20access%20with%20dogs%20to%20reduce%20impacts%20on%20land%20management.pdf

Seriously??

Your lucky it wasn't shot the first time it was off the lead.

You shouldn't have a dog if you don't know basic etiquette, countryside code or the law around ownership!

Ffs!

Um, you were in the farmer’s field... so what do you think??

It always amazes me at how people think they can walk on farmers land, if you bought a house with a garden, would you want just anyone walking through your garden, I doubt it... the amount of people I see walking their dogs off leads, the owner maybe walking down a lane but their dogs are running about in the farmers field which has a growing crop in it... most conventional farmers are spraying all year round and the irresponsible owners are letting them run through the field.