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Told by the farmer to keep dog on a lead?

634 replies

mudstuck · 26/04/2021 13:19

I was walking my dog through a field and the farmer came up on his tractor and complained that he had seen my dog off the lead. There are no sheep or livestock around, and I would always always put her on a lead if I there was any chance of encountering any livestock.I did raise the fact that the field was empty with him and he said there are young pheasants going about... I apologised and agreed to keep her on a lead in future. However on reflection I am wondering if he is in the right to ask that of us? My dog doesn't have a very high prey drive at all and lives happily with three house cats. I don't allow her to chase wildlife although her recall, even though it's good, is not 100% and we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer. She probably would chase a pheasant if she saw one running away but she would never catch it. What do you think? Like I said I am happy to keep her on a lead just for an easy life. I live close to the farmer and don't want the trouble/conflict. Just wondering who is in the right..

OP posts:
Ineedaneasteregg · 26/04/2021 22:03

To be fair to OP she can walk over farmland in Scotland.

CokeDrinker · 26/04/2021 22:08

[quote mudstuck]@MiaChia

You don't sound like a very good animal lover yourself. You're massively concerned for the livelihood of the farmer who makes his living from the terrorising and killing of these birds, yet I am somehow cruel for having dog off lead when she has never so much as chased a pheasant.

I accept I should have my dog on lead. That's fine. Don't have to like it or agree with it.

[/quote]
@mudstuck I'm sure you wouldn't like it or agree with it if your dog attacked or mauled another dog or child you encountered on your walk and you were held responsible and your dog destroyed. It's irresponsible dog owners like you who don't give a damn about anyone but yourself that give good and responsible dog owners a bad name. You are the type of person that shouldn't be permitted to own a dog.

Derbee · 26/04/2021 22:25

@murbblurb

He is. Keep your predator under full control. Too late when it's torn a sheep's throat out.
Hello. Can you read?
FrangipaniBlue · 26/04/2021 22:28

[quote mudstuck]@sunflowersandbuttercups
If it ain't legal I'd be calling the police and doing everything I could to ensure a prosecution for criminal damage, cruelty, ect. Surely most dog owned would take the same approach seeing how we all love our dogs. [/quote]
As a responsible dog owner I would never put my dog in that position in the first place.

As others have pointed out, is it really worth the risk?

amusedtodeath1 · 26/04/2021 22:32

Farmers are vital for supporting wildlife. Farmers and the work they do are essential for so much.

I've never met a farmer that didn't have and love dogs, the last thing they want to do is hurt someone's beloved pooch, but the sheer number of attacks, worrying, disturbances is a huge problem for them financially and from an animal welfare view. The worst part is it's so easy to avoid.

If the farmer thinks your dog should be on a lead, it should be on a lead.

FrangipaniBlue · 26/04/2021 22:33

@mudstuck

These people who believe they are above the law...
Erm, you broke the law when you walked your dog off lead on farmland - pot and kettle Confused
FrangipaniBlue · 26/04/2021 22:34

[quote mudstuck]@BillyTodd
Every dog has chased something at some point unless kept exclusively on the lead which is very few in my experience. [/quote]
Bollocks.

I had a dog for 15 years who I never walked on lead and she never chased anything other than the balls I threw for her.

FrangipaniBlue · 26/04/2021 22:43

Yet there are lots of folk on this thread who seem to think the farmer can shot a dog just for being off lead in an empty field. That is not the law and that is what has been getting my back up.

Not one single poster has said that this is ok though or that the farmer is "allowed" to shoot your dog on sight.... they are simply pointing out that he might shoot your dog if the farmer "perceives" your dog as a threat

Wombatt · 26/04/2021 22:52

It's mind blowing how many people think a anyone can discharge a weapon without a damn good reason. Farmers do not shoot off less dogs that aren't worrying animals because it's legal to have your dog off lead and very illegal to discharge a firearm in this circumstances especially around people. This is just madness.

LeopardSheet · 26/04/2021 23:21

Not read all of this but:
In theory a well behaved dog with a low prey drive is doing nothing wrong walking off lead on a footpath through farmland (unless march-sept on OPEN ACCESS land or if there are livestock around). However the farmer doesn’t know you or your dog so how could he possibly know that your dog is well trained and doesn’t chase? So all dogs should be on lead out of respect for the farmers who really worry about the considerable damage dogs do to their livelihood. How well behaved your dog usually is is not really relevant-any dog is potentially a threat to farmers income and it’s not reasonable to expect the farmer to assume yours is perfectly behaved because many aren’t.

Pinchoftums · 26/04/2021 23:31

Whilst I agree in principle it is a weird world in which we live:
The main animals to protect appear to be grouse, pheasant, lambs, and cattle.
So people keep their dogs on leads (quite rightly) so that they don't kill them or harm them. However the main motivation for this is not to preserve life but to allow the farmer to shoot or kill them.
If it is a fox however it is perfectly reasonable to promote the use of chasing the bugger down with 20 dogs to deliberately rip it to shreds.

lms2017 · 26/04/2021 23:40

We have horses and sheep etc . The amount of people who trust their dogs is mad , they all have natural instincts . I'd never trust any animal fully.

We have had such horrific injuries to horses over the years being chased and ran into fences spearing through them , breaking legs from galloping in fright etc, then sheep being mauled, losing their lambs, dog shit all over the ground, random dog balls ,sticks , and poop bags being picked up when making hay in the machines , which all cost money , trampling crops etc. List goes on.
you never know when the farmer might want to rotate his livestock and which fields

LeopardSheet · 26/04/2021 23:56

Also-is keeping a dog on a lead the majority of the time really so bad? 2 metres is quite a bit of distance/freedom to sniff and provided you walk far enough they get plenty of exercise. I actually think a longer walk on a short lead can be more interesting for the dog than if they did the same amount of exercise running around a couple of fields off lead. I have a dog who I can’t let off lead unless I hire a secure dog field and I really don’t think he suffers compared to dogs I’ve had in the past who’ve always been walked off lead. He’s a breed that needs a lot of exercise and I have him on a long line attached to a harness most of the time which I either leave trailing or hold the end of. It’s really no bother once you get used to it (a bit of a pain in mud-but then there is always plenty of mud to deal with anyway) and it stops him chasing wildlife/approaching dogs but gives him plenty of space to run. I think I’d even consider using a long line most of the time (I’m fields and areas with few people to avoid tripping people) for all future dogs, even if they had good recall. Mine is 10m long, and I’m not sure that many dogs that are further than 10-15m from owners are really under full control anyway, especially if they go round corners ahead of the owner.

The law says that dogs have to be on a 2 m lead in some places (open access land such as moors, mountains, forests or around livestock-not all paths through arable land as some pps seem to think). If I go to these areas I use a shorter lead and go in my running gear and jog alongside the dog (stopping to let him sniff) which I’d recommend-keeps you both fit and dogs seem to enjoy it/they get to go at a natural pace Obviously not an option if you can’t run though.

ginandvomit · 27/04/2021 02:29

[quote LST]@mudstuck my dog has never ever failed to recall and never ever chased a single thing apart from a tennis ball (which I threw) in his life. Therefore no, I am not as bad as you. I had a dog which had bad recall, I never let him off unless in an enclosed field. [/quote]
Rubbish!

LST · 27/04/2021 02:32

@ginandvomit I'm sorry? Do you know me? How dare you call me a liar.

needtogetmyAintoG · 27/04/2021 06:43

Farmer could simply have told you to get the fuck off his land with your bloody free running dog bothering his birds

DoubleTweenQueen · 27/04/2021 07:07

@LeopardSheet I use a long-line too with my young Springer and she is great on it and really enjoys her walks and sniffs, plus I can keep her close and we add in bits of training while we're out - keep to bridleways and out of the woods. I know when she's had a poo and so can pick up.
She gets to bomb around in the garden.

Scrowy · 27/04/2021 07:11

@Pinchoftums

Whilst I agree in principle it is a weird world in which we live: The main animals to protect appear to be grouse, pheasant, lambs, and cattle. So people keep their dogs on leads (quite rightly) so that they don't kill them or harm them. However the main motivation for this is not to preserve life but to allow the farmer to shoot or kill them. If it is a fox however it is perfectly reasonable to promote the use of chasing the bugger down with 20 dogs to deliberately rip it to shreds.
It's comments like this that make me realise how little understanding many people have about farming.

I'm just coming out of the other end of this years lambing time. We have around 900 breeding sheep, those 900 sheep will mostly live out their lives on our farm until they no longer have enough teeth to sufficiently feed themselves through winter, some will succumb to injury or illness or something else before that but not many.

It is a year round job keeping those sheep in good condition, feeding them, making winter feed for them, shearing them, treating them, gathering the, from the fell each time, choosing which sheep will go to which tup in the autumn etc. It doesn't just all happen by accident and then we happen upon the lambs at lambing time. It's a very labour intensive job.

Every year those 900 sheep provide us with approximately 1700 lambs. We have an outside system (we don't lamb anything inside, but we do bring weak and sickly lambs or sheep in if needed).

We work extremely hard to try and minimise losses, We get up as soon as it gets light and despite being up since 5.30am yesterday my DP was out until 11.30pm trying to find the fox/es that has picked off at least 10 lambs that we know of out of our 'twin' fields this year (where the sheep has two lambs to look after). Who knows how many newborn triplet or twin lambs that they have taken through the night without us knowing they even existed.

Despite all the work we put in we still lose around 100 -150 lambs every year during lambing time due to predation, lambing difficulties, exposure, disease etc and that's actually a really low number.

Small lambs that are only a few days or sometime weeks old are easy pickings for foxes, badgers and crows. Loose dogs chasing them tend to shake them like rag dolls and rip their noses, ears and tails of and take chunks out of their legs.

We are already exhausted and we are forced by the government to TB testing our 200 cattle this week too.

Every lamb counts, they are our main income for the year and they are the replacements for our own flock. We breed two different types of lamb from one breed of sheep. Around 250 of the original breed female lambs every year stay with us to eventually join the breeding flock of 900 when they are mature enough.

Around 650 of the female lambs that are cross bred or not ones we want to keep in our own flock from the pure bred sheep we sell in the Autumn as breeding sheep to other farmers. That is our main income for the year.

The male lambs will nearly all go for lamb chops when they are between 6 months and 12 months old. By this point the average person off the street are unlikely to recognise them as being 'lamb'.

Getting both the female and male lambs to the point of sale is again very labour intensive throughout the spring and summer.

So yes we do everything we can do to preserve life of vulnerable young lambs so that we can either sell / keep them as breeding stock (our main income) or sell them for meat when they are mature enough.

If something kills them when they are small defenceless lambs that directly impacts on the already tiny margins we are working to.

To say 'well they were just going to get killed anyway' is the equivalent of telling a cake maker that the wedding cake they have just finished decorating for someone else and you have just taken a huge slice out of 'was only going to get eaten anyway' and vastly misses the point.

DoubleTweenQueen · 27/04/2021 07:29

There ought to be an information campaign - I do think many owners really aren't aware of their responsibilities when out to n the countryside - even when they live there.

yankeedoodlecandy · 27/04/2021 07:41

@mudstuck

Wtf.. my dog was off lead but walking to heel with me in an empty field. She hasn't attacked any animals or rushed up to any children. We had very right to be in that field. I already agreed to keep her on a lead. This pile on is unhelpful. I was just looking for some advice
You don't have every right to be in the farmers field. In Scotland you have a right of access not roam and in farmers fields that means you have the right to access the margins of the field or walk along tractor tramlines or paths. I agree with the previous poster regarding the fact you even asked the question, why, if the owner of the field, told you to put your dog on a lead would you even question it
sashh · 27/04/2021 07:54

It was an empty field with no livestock in sight. Why would I keep her on a lead if I didn't know about the pheasants?

That's exactly why you keep your dog on the lead, you don't KNOW there are no livestock.

Roonerspismed · 27/04/2021 09:44

I think if I was a pheasant, I would rather be chased by a spaniel than shot dress by an arsehole in tweed

SoupDragon · 27/04/2021 10:24

@Roonerspismed

I think if I was a pheasant, I would rather be chased by a spaniel than shot dress by an arsehole in tweed
That rather depends if the spaniel catches them. They don't appear to be very bright when it comes to trying to get away from spaniels.
DameEdnasNeighbourhoodWatch · 27/04/2021 10:49

I think you have got an unnecessarily hard time here. I am based in Scotland too, and had this issue with a farmer - who actually didn't own the land and rented it from the national trust, and came running after us (no dogs may I add) and said we had no right to be on his land.
This farm was not polite, reeked of booze and was very very threatening. We reported this to the police on this occasion as Scotland does allow us access rights when walking.

mudstuck · 27/04/2021 11:09

@sashh

It was an empty field with no livestock in sight. Why would I keep her on a lead if I didn't know about the pheasants?

That's exactly why you keep your dog on the lead, you don't KNOW there are no livestock.

Pheasants ain't livestock. That was my point all along... 🤦🏻‍♀️
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