Told by the farmer to keep dog on a lead?

[mudstuck]

I was walking my dog through a field and the farmer came up on his tractor and complained that he had seen my dog off the lead. There are no sheep or livestock around, and I would always always put her on a lead if I there was any chance of encountering any livestock.I did raise the fact that the field was empty with him and he said there are young pheasants going about... I apologised and agreed to keep her on a lead in future. However on reflection I am wondering if he is in the right to ask that of us? My dog doesn't have a very high prey drive at all and lives happily with three house cats. I don't allow her to chase wildlife although her recall, even though it's good, is not 100% and we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer. She probably would chase a pheasant if she saw one running away but she would never catch it. What do you think? Like I said I am happy to keep her on a lead just for an easy life. I live close to the farmer and don't want the trouble/conflict. Just wondering who is in the right..

[quote mudstuck]@MiaChia

You don't sound like a very good animal lover yourself. You're massively concerned for the livelihood of the farmer who makes his living from the terrorising and killing of these birds, yet I am somehow cruel for having dog off lead when she has never so much as chased a pheasant.

I accept I should have my dog on lead. That's fine. Don't have to like it or agree with it.

[/quote]
FYI farmers do not terrorise pheasants, they are reared, looked after, medicated and fed exactly the same way as cows sheep and pigs.

The only difference is the way they are disparate the end.

Pheasants have a much higher chance of escaping after having a free range life style in the wild than a cow in a slaughter house.

Just because it's a gun and not a stun gun or a knife doesn't make any difference.

Even though you're crossing his land the cannot insist your dog is on lead. It's simply not true. He can ask but he can't insist. He can only shoot the dog if it is actively worrying livestock.

Hi OP, you sound like a pretty reasonable person and you've clearly said that you'll abide by the farmer/land owners request to keep your dog on a lead.

We ask people to keep dogs on a lead at all times because as you've said yourself no dog is 100% reliable. You may not know that my milking cows are in a field until you come across them, they may have a calf at foot or the bull may be with them. All of that could put you and your dog at danger as they can become aggressive when they are afraid.

You might not see your dog doing the toilet if it's not on a lead, my own dog can be sneaky if I'm not watching her. Dog mess is a huge problem in livestock farms. We grow our grass to be turned into silage to feed animals through the winter, if animals eat silage tainted by dog mess they sadly adort their calf/lamb at any stage of the pregnancy. This is pretty heartbreaking, we have lost cows who have aborted late on in pregnancy due to the complications.

Recently we've had a horrible problem with hare coursers which is both illegal and immoral. If your dog is safely on a lead you won't be mistaken for a hare courser. Most farmers are proud of the wildlife that have homes on our land.

I'm a farmer, I know many many farmers, please believe when I say the vast majority of farmers would only shoot a dog if they absolutely had too, most farmers have their own dogs and love them. MN seems to think farmers are shooting dogs willy nilly, this is honestly not the case.

I'm in Scotland too and 100% agree with the public's right to responsible access on my land. Keep your dog on a lead and you'd be very welcome here anytime. In any given day I may have 10 dog walkers going through my farm, it does get wearing if you have to ask them all to put their dogs on a lead. We've had a fair bit of abuse from members of the public who like the access but not the responsible part, that get pretty wearing too.

A genuine thanks for not giving the farmer abuse and for putting your dog on a lead. We really do appreciate it.

@Wombatt
The farmer can insist the dog is on a leash or kept at heel on grassland during nesting season.
That is the law in Scotland.

The law as it stands is that dogs do not have to be on the lead but they do have to be under control. If your recall is not good enough a lead is the best option however if your dog is trained to walk to heel without a lead then this is sufficient. Most dogs are cannot be trusted to do this. My dog is always under control and I wouldn’t have him on a lead in an empty field and would challenge any farmer who asked me to do so. It is a myth that farmers can just randomly shoot dogs on their land, however, they are allowed to do so if the dog is chasing/worrrying livestock.

Christ the night is this thread still going 😂. Between the NI thread and this one .. swear to god this place is nuts 😂

@wetotter

The OP was only asking a question

Have you read all of OP's posts?

Ofcourse I'm going to get angry and defensive at the thought of someone shooting my dog for no good reason. Goss!

My sister posted a video of her walking her dog along a footpath at the edge of a field. She then throws the ball into the growing crops and her goldendoodle mongrel goes running off across the crops.
I’m actually disgusted with her and let her know. She said she didn’t realise that dogs can’t go on crops. How stupid can you get?!

@Wombatt

Even though you're crossing his land the cannot insist your dog is on lead. It's simply not true. He can ask but he can't insist. He can only shoot the dog if it is actively worrying livestock.

That is incorrect.

OP is in Scotland where the law states she must have her dog on a lead at this time of year.

Ofcourse I'm going to get angry and defensive at the thought of someone shooting my dog for no good reason. Goss! The farmer didn't threaten to shoot your dog. He didn't have a gun did he. Why would he want to shoot a dog. It doesn't make any sense for him to do it. Once we caught a dog running through our sheep. Did we shoot the dog? No we explained to the owner that she should keep her dog under control. That dog leapt over a fence onto my land. She thought her dog was 'only playing'.

@sunflowersandbuttercups Could you reference that claim because it's not right. The dog can be kept off leash at a heel.

@derxa

Ofcourse I'm going to get angry and defensive at the thought of someone shooting my dog for no good reason. Goss! The farmer didn't threaten to shoot your dog. He didn't have a gun did he. Why would he want to shoot a dog. It doesn't make any sense for him to do it. Once we caught a dog running through our sheep. Did we shoot the dog? No we explained to the owner that she should keep her dog under control. That dog leapt over a fence onto my land. She thought her dog was 'only playing'.

No but so many people have come on here to say the farmer can shoot my dog simply for being off lead. Then there are other people saying that the farmer will shot my dog even though he's not supposed too and that there will be no legal consequences. That is what annoyed me.

OP did not seem to grasp that dogs are not permitted other than on lead during the ground bird nesting season. And persisted in her error, so and really did become quite aerated.

Dogs worrying livestock can be shot (see posts earlier in the thread showing what this consists of). Yes, her dog could be at risk if, after warnings owner permitted him to disturb nests. Which she wouldn't be able to see in the ground cover.

Plus of course other national species are ground nesting, and its just the right thing to do to keep predators from them. Just being canine near nesting birds is enough to cause harm. Did you know that not even guide dogs are permitted in some nature reserves because of the harm a dog's presence causes in itself?

Having a dog off lead in places where birds are nesting is not a neutral thing. It endangers both livestock and wild birds and is explicitly irbidden between March and July

@sunflowersandbuttercups

OP is in Scotland where the law states she must have her dog on a lead at this time of year.

Where does it say this? Can you link me to it please as me and my husband have both looked and can only see guidance. Plus that guidance stated lead or under close control,

It has been linked to and quoted and is easily found
www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-countryside-code

@CharlieSays13

Hi OP, you sound like a pretty reasonable person and you've clearly said that you'll abide by the farmer/land owners request to keep your dog on a lead.

We ask people to keep dogs on a lead at all times because as you've said yourself no dog is 100% reliable. You may not know that my milking cows are in a field until you come across them, they may have a calf at foot or the bull may be with them. All of that could put you and your dog at danger as they can become aggressive when they are afraid.

You might not see your dog doing the toilet if it's not on a lead, my own dog can be sneaky if I'm not watching her. Dog mess is a huge problem in livestock farms. We grow our grass to be turned into silage to feed animals through the winter, if animals eat silage tainted by dog mess they sadly adort their calf/lamb at any stage of the pregnancy. This is pretty heartbreaking, we have lost cows who have aborted late on in pregnancy due to the complications.

Recently we've had a horrible problem with hare coursers which is both illegal and immoral. If your dog is safely on a lead you won't be mistaken for a hare courser. Most farmers are proud of the wildlife that have homes on our land.

I'm a farmer, I know many many farmers, please believe when I say the vast majority of farmers would only shoot a dog if they absolutely had too, most farmers have their own dogs and love them. MN seems to think farmers are shooting dogs willy nilly, this is honestly not the case.

I'm in Scotland too and 100% agree with the public's right to responsible access on my land. Keep your dog on a lead and you'd be very welcome here anytime. In any given day I may have 10 dog walkers going through my farm, it does get wearing if you have to ask them all to put their dogs on a lead. We've had a fair bit of abuse from members of the public who like the access but not the responsible part, that get pretty wearing too.

A genuine thanks for not giving the farmer abuse and for putting your dog on a lead. We really do appreciate it.

Thanks for your post and taking the time to explain. I understand. Sorry you got abuse. That's horrible especially when at work!

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]It has been linked to and quoted and is easily found
www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-countryside-code[/quote]
It very clearly says that it applies to England and Wales. I am in Scotland!

Oh fgs, it’s so easy to just err on the side of caution.

The idea that because the guidance is different in Scotland it entitles Scots to run across the countryside because it’s owned by a few dastardly farmers/ landowners, is nonsense.

I’ve had dogs all my life and it is possible to exercise them properly and be respectful of the surroundings.
Make life easy for yourself and those around you.
It’s really not that hard.

@CokeDrinker

OP, dogs should never be off leash anywhere except your own private property or a dog park. It's not about what animal is wild or not, it's about right and wrong. No one should be out with a dog unless it's on leash. I have to admit it never occurred to me before now that it was common anywhere for dogs to be off leash. I thought it was just taken as read that a dog is never allowed anywhere without a leash on. I am stunned that people even think it's ok. It's never ok to have a dog leave your property without a leash on!

You must live in a different country to have that opinion or experience. In the UK it is standard practice for dogs under control to be off lead.

Honestly if someone can point us to the law that says dogs must be on lead this time of year in Scotland then please do?

I was genuinely concerned so told my husband to stop letting her off as he takes her to the woods on his lunch. He has looked into it and can only find guidance. This guidance says on lead or under close control..

So essentially, unless there is some law I cannot find, the farmer is within his rights to ask but I don't have to comply. But obviously I would comply as I'm not a dick...

Here's a guide for Scotland

www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/dog-walking

The timings around ground nesting birds are different (start in April) but do apply in the specified areas

@Levis501star

People like you give dog owners a bad reputation of being entitled and the rules not applying to them.

I bet your the type who would let your dog rush up to a scared child / adult abs state that 'dog is just being friendly- wouldn't hurt a fly'

Yep, or let it off lead run up to an anxious or reactive dog. I really can’t stand entitled dog owners like this. They give every one else a bad reputation and cause problems.

The outdoor access code in Scotland is very clear.

There is no need for her to be off lead in the woods your husband takes her too, because she isnt allowed to run around or even be walking away from your husband. She needs to be on a lead, or under close control, but as you've said here that she has chased things and might run off then she is not a suitable candidate for close control. At the moment, she is not allowed to be running around in woodland. She must be at heel, so she may as well be on a lead.

It's not just about chasing and biting at the birds; just running through the undergrowth will terrorise them and result in deaths/abandoned nests and hatchlings.

Now if you and your husband want to ignore it because it's an outdoor access code and not something which will get you arrested then fine, we cant stop you. It just makes you both a bit dickish though.

we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer.

In which case your dog is quite likely to chase sheep, cows and other livestock. A dog that will chase deer and ignore sheep is pretty much a unicorn.

If, like me, you know you have a dog that may chase livestock then you either keep the dog on lead or walk it in a public park where there's never going to be any livestock.