Does anyone else struggle to walk their dog during pheasant season?

[Badgershy]

The buggers are absolutely everywhere at the moment. We do 2 walks through private land (which you're allowed to walk in) but they do shoots and have these huge fenced off areas full of pheasants which of course they escape from.

My dog is an 18 month old terrier spaniel Cross with questionable recall at the best of times. We manage him pretty well on a long trailing line but when he's on the scent of something I have to hold the end of it. He's been like a thing possessed this weekend, so so strong, so hyper, darting from side to side, pulling at full strength, completely deaf to me, out of control really. He brought me to tears at one point as I just couldn't get down a steep bank with him. Thankfully there was no one around to watch me scrambling down it on my arse. I returned to the car feeling like a complete failure of a dog owner after passing a few other walkers with their dogs trotting along nicely off lead.

I dont know if I'm looking for advice, sympathy or someone who's experienced the same. I think the answer is to avoid these areas while there's so many pheasants about which is a shame.

Really poor to suggest she shouldn’t even bother trying IMO. This could make all the difference to her dog and their walks. People aren’t wrong to suggest things just because your experience hasn’t been good.

I never said she shouldn't bother trying though - I just said that desensitisation training isn't a miracle cure, and that if your dog has a high prey drive or hunting instinct then you can't always do anything about it.

I didn't want OP to be disheartened by lots of people coming on with dogs who recall perfectly away from pheasants every time while she feels like she's failing.

Yes, desensitisation is a great idea but what OP describes (the red mist and the shaking) means her dog is unlikely to respond to anything once in the "zone" - so training is pointless, you just have to manage the situation which you do by using leads or avoiding the area altogether.

This is how mine is with cats. She chased a neighbours cat in to their house the other day and refused to come back out because the cat was up high out of reach and she was just staring at it willing it to run again, shaking and yelping. She's now lost off lead privilege in or anywhere near our street, or anywhere else there might be cats. All the training in the world would go out the window if one suddenly ran. Even a squirrel you can call her back from. Not sure what it is about cats. I think because sometimes they face her up it adds to the excitement.

I never said she shouldn't bother trying though - I just said that desensitisation training isn't a miracle cure, and that if your dog has a high prey drive or hunting instinct then you can't always do anything about it.

This is what you said. Pointless- meaning no point so don’t bother.

desensitisation is a great idea but what OP describes (the red mist and the shaking) means her dog is unlikely to respond to anything once in the "zone" - so training is pointless, you just have to manage the situation which you do by using leads or avoiding the area altogether.

If you don’t want OP to be disheartened then don’t imply there is nothing she can do.

One thing I could suggest is games based training like absolute dogs where you make yourself more fun than anything else. This did work for my dog for the most part. I'm now 'sexier than a squirrel' but sadly not sexier than a cat so can't promise it will work.

@UhtredRagnarson what I said there is "once the dog is in the zone, trying to train them is pointless" as they just won't listen to you.

I didn't say that training in general is pointless.

So she should try desensitisation then? Like I said.

I never once said she shouldn't try it

I said that it doesn't always work as some breeds have such a high prey drive. I just don't want her to try it and be disheartened because it doesn't work on her dog.

For some dogs the best solution is to keep them on a lead and avoid the area. Stressing yourself and your dog out in the name of desensitisation isn't always a battle worth fighting.

@sunflowersandbuttercups why are you being so sensitive?

"it's not good enough to say there's nothing you can do once instinct kicks in". Which is true.
"Which implies I just let him do what he wants because of his instinct." No it doesn't.
"I don't. I keep him on a lead so that he's always under my control, or I avoid those areas completely." Good, me too.

I'm not being sensitive at all. I posted something and got leapt on by numerous different people saying I was wrong - I'm allowed to defend myself!

No one said you were wrong! You were saying other peoples suggestions were pointless!

@UhtredRagnarson

No one said you were wrong! You were saying other peoples suggestions were pointless!

If you think that, I think you've misunderstood what I said, or perhaps I wasn't clear.

I don't think training or desensitisation work is pointless at all - what I meant, was that once your dog is in the zone, trying to click them out of it is almost impossible, so your best bet is to manage the situation by keeping them on a lead, or, even better, avoiding the area altogether.

Of course it would be worth OP's time to try those things, but I wouldn't want her to get disheartened if she found it didn't work in the way she wanted. If mine smells a pheasant or deer he just goes deaf. I can get him to ignore cats, sheep, cows and even rabbits (I keep him on a lead just in case, of course) but put a pheasant anywhere near him and I may as well not even be there nothing I've tried will distract his attention, even freshly cooked steak.

I just find it much easier and less stressful to avoid areas with pheasants rather than working to desensitise him anymore. He just ignores me, I get stressed and frustrated and it doesn't help anyone to be in that situation regularly.

Let's not turn this into a bun fight. I think sunflowers was just trying to make me feel better and not like a complete failure which is where I'm at at the moment and her comments have helped.

Thanks everyone for your input.

@Badgershy

Let's not turn this into a bun fight. I think sunflowers was just trying to make me feel better and not like a complete failure which is where I'm at at the moment and her comments have helped.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Thank you and good luck!

fwiw I have had spaniels that are perfectly trustworthy around pheasant and a terrier I wouldn't trust for a tiny second off lead around them. Unless I never wanted to see that terrier again (which was sometimes tempting! ).

Generally, I'm of the opinion that if a situation with a dog nearly brings me to tears then that is not a situation or emotional state I want to train in. There is nothing wrong with recognising that a situation is going to be more than you can handle right then or more hassle than it's worth and high tailing it out of there - rather than persist in the walk and get yourself (and the dog) worked up. It's a lesson I wish I'd learned several dogs ago, tbh.

This time of year the pheasant are at their 'worst', imo. Young and dumb and full of spring - they wander out and about causing all kinds of chaos. Don't feel bad if you cut a walk (very) short to avoid them.

Desensitisation is more likely to succeed when you are in a relaxed state of mind, which might mean waiting until the dog is older and the pheasant are wiser

BigHairyPaws very wise words, thankyou. I knew within 10 minutes that the walk would be stressful but instead of getting in the car and driving somewhere else I thought no, I've come this far, it'll be ok and of course it was a disaster. If I get in this situation again I'll be sure to listen to my gut and find a calmer walk for us both.

I'll be sure to listen to my gut and find a calmer walk for us both

Do

I often think (to myself) that I learned really quickly to assess my dogs' state of mind etc to judge whether they were in the right place to learn. I was then happy to move training to a time that the dog was most likely to succeed.

What took me too long to do was learn to extend that same understanding to myself. I expected ME to always be in the right state of mind to handle a situation or train. But that's not realistic. For us both to get the best out of any training we BOTH need to be in a fit state to train. And we BOTH need to be somewhere we feel safe and comfortable and able to focus.

mine does that quivering for rabbits at the moment, and they are sodding everywhere!

I know exactly what you mean about the longline - you have so much less control too as they are further away

something i think you said that was quite key was that his recall is a bit questionable at the moment anyway - I'm in exactly the same position as you (adolescence) and we've had to take it right back to first principles. I think, in essence, you're expecting too much of him. You know he is unmanageable in that situation but I imagine you're a bit like me and hope that he won't be . In reality, he was unmanageable and then it's really upsetting.

I would go back and start recall from scratch again (so in house, then in garden, then with the distraction that's least distracting and work up to the most distracting one) and just always know if you are in any situation where there's a distraction above a level you've got to that if he doesn't come back, that's perfectly normal and understandable and you're expecting too much of him to do so.

I totally totally get what you mean and how upset it makes you feel btw!

You should know that this year is extremely tricky because the shoots had to stop because of Covid and so there are far more pheasants around than normal. Their number will dwindle from now with predators. I avoid the very worse places with my high drive hunting dogs and have the youngest on a long line, but one of mine has picked a pheasant out of the hedge on lead at heel!

Work on your recall and focus with your dog in low distraction environments and then gradually increase the difficulty level. Eventually the conditioned behaviours will begin to help.

Goodness yes. She’s ex-trial dog so raised and trained to set. We live in the midst of a national park that is bursting with pheasant at the moment. She’s got the shaky legs, the walking on him legs, the running in circles.

She escaped for four and a half hours a couple of weeks back and her tracker showed her running for the whole time. Luckily the farmer and shepherd are neighbours who know us well and weren’t worried about the sheep - she has zero interest in anything without wings. They used their bikes to keep an eye on her and could see her running along the downland ridge, but too far for the whistle to recall her. Minx.

She did 23 miles in that time and had already been out running with my husband in the morning. Next day she was less enthusiastic than usual about her early morning run.

She’s now on long lead whenever we are out on unsecured land. We have a big enough gardens for her to chase the pheasants in the hedgerows. We have use of one of the local fields which is pretty well fenced and gives her about five acres to run around in, but any sign of feathers being paraded and she is standing up looking over the fence trying to find a way through.

Sooner there are more shoots the better.

Personally, I am in complete agreement with @sunflowersandbuttercups
In some dogs the prey drive is so strong there is truly nothing you can do training wise.
It becomes a management only issue.

@BigWolfLittleWolf

Personally, I am in complete agreement with *@sunflowersandbuttercups* In some dogs the prey drive is so strong there is truly nothing you can do training wise. It becomes a management only issue.

Thank you :)

I do think it's best to work with the dog you've got instead of the dog you want. I know my dog has a high prey drive and trying to desensitise him and train him out of it would make both of us miserable.

He won't die if he has to stay on the lead in the woods - there are lots of other places he can go and run!

I let my dog chase the pheasants, squirrel & deer in the woods.
On our regular routes he tracks me round & appears every couple of mins.
I'm not fussed about him disturbing these.
He's on lead near farmland, around busy beaches, by cliffs, on the moors. Woods are OK in my book, but then I know he doesn't go far.

I let my dog chase the pheasants, squirrel & deer in the woods.

@Ihaventgottimeforthis

I let my dog chase the pheasants, squirrel & deer in the woods. On our regular routes he tracks me round & appears every couple of mins. I'm not fussed about him disturbing these. He's on lead near farmland, around busy beaches, by cliffs, on the moors. Woods are OK in my book, but then I know he doesn't go far.

How do you know what he is up to each time he's away from you for a few minutes?

Sniffed into a robins nest away scaring the parent bird and leaving the eggs open to other prey?

Scared a deer away from its young?

Crashed through undergrowth scaring birds and small mammals that have been using it for cover.

Screw them all too right?

What an awful ignorant attitude you have. You don't deserve access to the wonderful woodland and countryside that's been made available to you if you can't treat it with respect.

I let my dog chase
You really shouldn't. I've not managed to cure mine of squirrel chasing, but if there are deer around she is kept close and I know where the pheasants tend to hang out. Sometimes I'll work her onto them under control, but at this time of year they're nesting so we're staying away.

A loose dog near here injured a deer so badly a year or so ago that it had to be found and PTS. The owner is completely clueless and still has her off-lead with no idea of where she's gone and what's she's doing. I'm just waiting for the waily FB post when a farmer shoots her for chasing sheep.