People walking cats and rabbits on leads in parks

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

Utter fools. Do they not like their pets?

I've come across this at least 4 times now - people (all different!) walking cats and, in one case, a rabbit, on a lead.

In all cases, these are parks where dogs are allowed off lead and the vast majority are off lead. Including everything from ex-racing greyhounds to terriers.

I spoke to rabbit woman and pointed out the dangers. She said she'd just pick the rabbit up - while seemingly failing to account for the fact greyhounds can travel at 40mph and jump higher than she could possibly lift the rabbit.

Yesterday I saw this on-lead cat before my own dog did (a small miracle - from a distance I thought it was a puppy), and warned them my dog wasn't cat friendly. They then decided to stop sitting down in the park and instead FOLLOW US through the park.

Presumably when it goes wrong they'll be whining that the dog was out of control - but presumably they'd also be whining if they wandered out blindfolded onto a 70mph road and got run over. It's asking for trouble.

I'm not convinced cats or rabbits enjoy being walked - and surely the much safer / more pragmatic option would be to walk them somewhere where dogs aren't allowed to be off lead?

Let's pray this doesn't catch on as a trend

I’m not criticising dogs chasing squirrels/ rabbits or suggesting they shouldn’t when they’re on the owner’s own private land. I’m saying if a dog does have a high prey drive mixed with poor or unpredictable recall it shouldn’t be in a public park off-lead.

I don’t think cats should all be kept indoors but equally I do think cat owners should be mindful about where they live and whether it is appropriate to have the cat free-roaming, for example if you live in an urban area where people have rabbits/ guinea pigs out in their gardens I’d argue it isn’t appropriate to have the cat free-roaming either as there’s a risk of it going into a neighbours garden. In that case measures should be taken to prevent the cat from leaving the owners garden where possible.

AlexaShutUp
There is an arbitrary standard if people think dogs should never be off lead in case they chase a squirrel, but then they are perfectly accepting that cats will pounce on and kill birds and mice (which many do when they're out and about each day).

I agree with you about our responsibilities as dog owners though, just think some people have very arbitrary ideas of what constitutes under reasonable control (for example one thread a few weeks ago had people arguing that a dog being too close is whatever someone says it is, so if they don't want to share a field with an off lead dog then that's it decided).

To be fair, I have known a (previously very lovely and dog-friendly) greyhound kill a small “toy” dog which was on the lead at the time - would you suggest people shouldn’t walk their toy dogs in this park either? I guess everyone just assesses the risk against their need to exercise their pet.

Ideally I agree that you shouldn’t let your dog of the lead in a park if you don’t trust it around other animals - but it’s hard to 100% know your animal. I thought I had my old dog 100% under my control on or off the lead, but once when I was distracted she killed a chicken. I wasn’t expecting there to be a chicken in this field, but even so I should have been more alert. She killed it before I even saw she had it. I felt terrible about that - totally my fault. So what I mean is, even if everyone is doing their best, animals are unpredictable and accidents will sometimes happen.

@BungleandGeorge

Actually a cat and dog killing another animal is not quite the same. In law a dog is fully domesticated, whilst a cat is only semi domesticated. Thus the standards of behaviour which the law expects from dog and owner are different. The presumption is that a dog can be trained and controlled and a cat can not because they’re not fully domesticated. It’s not the dogs fault it’s up to the owner to choose an appropriate pet and train or modify behaviour. If your dog unexpectedly does something or slips it’s lead, runs off out the care etc it’s an accident if you’re aware of a problem and do nothing that’s not an accident. Many people keep working dogs in the countryside, they’re incredibly well trained and they do their job, and get plenty of exercise. The problem is when working dogs don’t have any work to do..

In law there is no requirement for a dog to be kept on a lead, just like there's no requirement for a cat

It is a cop out to say dogs have a prey drive and therefore chasing is acceptable.

Many dogs yes even with a high prey drive can be trained. Most dogs have a distance between you and themselves where they can be comtrolled from chasing.It is of course harder for many dogs and some dogs I agree will find this very hard.

However these dogs should be on a lead if that is the case.

Owners make dog walks so boring that often there is not much for the dogs to do but chase squirrels etc. If more enrichment was put into training and dog walks there would be much less chasing. If you are not able to train your dog and some people cant then the owners have to be responsible for preventing chasing.

A chasing dog is an out of control dog and the law requires dogs to be under control.......

@PollyRoulson

It is a cop out to say dogs have a prey drive and therefore chasing is acceptable.

Many dogs yes even with a high prey drive can be trained. Most dogs have a distance between you and themselves where they can be comtrolled from chasing.It is of course harder for many dogs and some dogs I agree will find this very hard.

However these dogs should be on a lead if that is the case.

Owners make dog walks so boring that often there is not much for the dogs to do but chase squirrels etc. If more enrichment was put into training and dog walks there would be much less chasing. If you are not able to train your dog and some people cant then the owners have to be responsible for preventing chasing.

A chasing dog is an out of control dog and the law requires dogs to be under control.......

No the law requires that a dog is not dangerously out of control This means in law that:

A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person or assistance dog, whether or not it actually does so, (section 10(3) Dangerous Dogs Act 1991).

Absolutely nothing to do with a dog chasing a squirrel. Please don't misrepresent the law to support your own agenda it looks foolish.

Our dogs should not be chasing, (or frightening, injuring or killing), wildlife for fun or sport.

The gov.uk website states that:

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:
it attacks someone’s animal
the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal.

So whilst a dog chasing a wild squirrel might not be considered out of control a dog chasing and attacking a pet cat, rabbit or other owned animal could be found to be dangerously out of control.

@MrsMackesy

Our dogs should not be chasing, (or frightening, injuring or killing), wildlife for fun or sport.

Where has anyone suggested they should?

@BillyIsMyBunny

The gov.uk website states that:

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:
it attacks someone’s animal
the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal.

So whilst a dog chasing a wild squirrel might not be considered out of control a dog chasing and attacking a pet cat, rabbit or other owned animal could be found to be dangerously out of control.

Very unlikely in a rabbit/cat on a lead in a public park scenario

Also totally ignores the significant stress and welfare issues to those animals regardless of being chased.

Interesting how so few people are actually motivated to post by the health and welfare issues the stressed rabbits/cats face

That face again.

Several posters seem to believe that squirrels and wild rabbits are fair game.

The problem is when working dogs don’t have any work to do..
You aren’t trying to suggest that only working dog breeds chase and kill small animals surely..?

It is a cop out to say dogs have a prey drive and therefore chasing is acceptable
I don’t know about anyone else but i didn’t mean to suggest it was ‘acceptable’
Responsible owners do leash in areas where there are lots of squirrels, rabbits, deer etc.
But alas, most dogs will chase, and sometimes kill small animals and that is entirely normal and expected behaviour.

In most public parks (where OP I believe was?) you wouldn’t expect to see large volumes of rabbits, deer etc.
You certainly wouldn’t expect to see a rabbit on a lead, nor a cat.
It’s usually mostly open field so people will let their dogs run loose.
In that environment, you wouldn’t expect to see a rabbit on a leash so wouldn’t have thought not to let your dog off.
If the dog spots the rabbit, that no one expects to be there, it’s a rare dog that won’t chase it!
And if it inevitably does chase it the blame should lie with the selfish idiot who took the rabbit there.
The standard dogs are held to is quite appalling.
I certainly don’t think owners should be letting their dog chase deer, rabbits etc for fun, nor do I think dogs should be harassing people but I really do take offence to this idea that dogs have to be robotic creatures completely attached to their owners knee 24/7.

Owners make dog walks so boring that often there is not much for the dogs to do but chase squirrels etc. If more enrichment was put into training and dog walks there would be much less chasing
I do agree with this.

If you are not able to train your dog and some people can then the owners have to be responsible for preventing chasing
I think that’s unfair.
Some breeds by their nature are very difficult, if not impossible to control around small furries.
Another poster who suggested it was possible has a border collie and you have collies and spaniels.
Two incredibly biddable handler focussed breeds.
I would bet you would both struggle if you had say, a lurcher of working lines or a Patterdale or Jack Russell terrier.

@MrsMackesy

That face again.

Several posters seem to believe that squirrels and wild rabbits are fair game.

If you dislike emoticons - take it up with MNHQ - they provide them for us to use.

You do seem keen to judge and police

There is absolutely no chance of my not being able to pick up and control my leashed cat should it get panicked and lash out. It's a simple size and strength of cat vs size and strength of me equation.
And if I get a few scratches it's not the end of the world.

@dontcare85

Poor rabbits and cats being put on a lead to walk in a park where there are dogs. This is cruel. They will be terrified whether a dog is on a lead or not.

No she wasn't terrified at all. Quite the opposite actually. Tail up in that lovely S shape. Trotting along happily. Not fazed by the dogs - some of whom she knows anyway. But happy to be picked up by me when I deemed it better from from dog's sanity point of view.

And you, Veterinari are repeatedly keen to have a personal go at posters who disagree with you or with whom you disagree.

@MiddlesexGirl

There is absolutely no chance of my not being able to pick up and control my leashed cat should it get panicked and lash out. It's a simple size and strength of cat vs size and strength of me equation. And if I get a few scratches it's not the end of the world.

Interesting

I wonder how many owners have actually got experience of handling a terrified cat on the end of a mobile lead whilst a dog is nearby.

And that still doesn't remove the stress/injury potential

@MrsMackesy

And you, Veterinari are repeatedly keen to have a personal go at posters who disagree with you or with whom you disagree.

A 'personal go' for pointing out that you are attempting to police my use of MN-approved emoticons.

Aye, right

There is absolutely no chance of my not being able to pick up and control my leashed cat should it get panicked and lash out. It's a simple size and strength of cat vs size and strength of me equation.
And if I get a few scratches it's not the end of the world
Don’t walk the cat where you expect there to be dogs!
🤦🏻‍♀️
It’s common sense FFS.

As for ‘a few scratches’, have you ever actually tried to handle an agitated cat?
When our cat redirected onto my mum after seeing another cat trying to get through the cat flap the bite went straight through her thick trousers and into the flesh.
Panicked cats can cause a lot more damage than I think you realise.

@veterinari. I look forward to your posts on animal threads and agree with what you said prior to this,

Which part of @AvocadosBeforeMortgages posts indicate her dog was not under control?

But tbh the bit where she said

Yesterday I saw this on-lead cat before my own dog did (a small miracle - from a distance I thought it was a puppy), and warned them my dog wasn't cat friendly

If her dog was under control, it wouldn't have needed to be said.

If her dog was under control, it wouldn't have needed to be said
How so?
My dog ignores other dogs but she doesn’t like others trying to interact with her.
If I spot a very bouncy dog before she does and I shout out to the owner that my dog isn’t dog friendly, does that mean my dog is ‘out of control’ then..?

[quote WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants]@veterinari. I look forward to your posts on animal threads and agree with what you said prior to this,

Which part of @AvocadosBeforeMortgages posts indicate her dog was not under control?

But tbh the bit where she said

Yesterday I saw this on-lead cat before my own dog did (a small miracle - from a distance I thought it was a puppy), and warned them my dog wasn't cat friendly

If her dog was under control, it wouldn't have needed to be said.[/quote]
So a dog owner with an on-lead dog spotting an obvious hazard (the cat) should NOT communicate to that cat owner that their dog dislikes cats (so that they can be fully informed and ensure that they don't approach too closely) because you think communication between adults shows that a restrained a dog is dangerously out of control?

Hahahahaha

I'm assuming that's a wind up

If you are not able to train your dog and some people can then the owners have to be responsible for preventing chasing
I think that’s unfair.
Some breeds by their nature are very difficult, if not impossible to control around small furries.
Another poster who suggested it was possible has a border collie and you have collies and spaniels.
Two incredibly biddable handler focussed breeds.
I would bet you would both struggle if you had say, a lurcher of working lines or a Patterdale or Jack Russell terrier.

Agred hence the suggestio of using a lead!

Theres an agenda?

@BigWolfLittleWolf

The problem is when working dogs don’t have any work to do.. You aren’t trying to suggest that only working dog breeds chase and kill small animals surely..?

It is a cop out to say dogs have a prey drive and therefore chasing is acceptable
I don’t know about anyone else but i didn’t mean to suggest it was ‘acceptable’
Responsible owners do leash in areas where there are lots of squirrels, rabbits, deer etc.
But alas, most dogs will chase, and sometimes kill small animals and that is entirely normal and expected behaviour.

In most public parks (where OP I believe was?) you wouldn’t expect to see large volumes of rabbits, deer etc.
You certainly wouldn’t expect to see a rabbit on a lead, nor a cat.
It’s usually mostly open field so people will let their dogs run loose.
In that environment, you wouldn’t expect to see a rabbit on a leash so wouldn’t have thought not to let your dog off.
If the dog spots the rabbit, that no one expects to be there, it’s a rare dog that won’t chase it!
And if it inevitably does chase it the blame should lie with the selfish idiot who took the rabbit there.
The standard dogs are held to is quite appalling.
I certainly don’t think owners should be letting their dog chase deer, rabbits etc for fun, nor do I think dogs should be harassing people but I really do take offence to this idea that dogs have to be robotic creatures completely attached to their owners knee 24/7.

Owners make dog walks so boring that often there is not much for the dogs to do but chase squirrels etc. If more enrichment was put into training and dog walks there would be much less chasing
I do agree with this.

If you are not able to train your dog and some people can then the owners have to be responsible for preventing chasing
I think that’s unfair.
Some breeds by their nature are very difficult, if not impossible to control around small furries.
Another poster who suggested it was possible has a border collie and you have collies and spaniels.
Two incredibly biddable handler focussed breeds.
I would bet you would both struggle if you had say, a lurcher of working lines or a Patterdale or Jack Russell terrier.

I think if you get certain breeds of dog such as huskies or greyhounds you should accept that it’s not appropriate to let them off lead in many areas for their own safety and the safety of small dogs/other animals. Most rescue centres will only rehome greyhounds and huskies and some others on the condition that they are exercised on lead or long line or in secure fields. Many husky owners never let their dogs off lead. If owners want a dog that is safe to let off lead they should choose a breed such as cookies or spaniels and avoid high prey drive breeds which are not suitable for letting off lead in urban areas.

I don't actually agree with keeping any pets!
I do agree however that pets especially dogs have a place in our society! Working dogs and emotional support animals etc

But I think too many people want to have them and unfortunately not enough of these people are willing to put the effort in to looking after them properly
There are so many unwanted animals yet the breeders are still able to sell dogs for a rediculous price because every one wants a specific dog even if it means they have health issues!
I get why so many people don't rehome the unwanted ones I know it's a bit of a gamble especially with small children etc but why do so many people think owning an animal is a good idea?

If you don't have the time, money or space for an animal don't get a pet