Another breed help question, sorry!

[Letmeout21]

I have posted before but can’t find it. I’ve been researching breeds for over a year now so feel like I’m well prepared.
I’m actually waiting for confirmation from landlord (council) that we’re allowed a dog so still nothings concrete. I might be allowed based on children’s mental health needs.
Narrowed it down to:
Cavalier (health issues I know)
Cavapoo
Shih tzu
Westie
Open to suggestions. Not a rescue.
Kids are 8 and 15. Generally my household is pretty calm but youngest can be quite energetic and loud at times. Would be great company for a dog that loves to run around a park. Oldest would like a cuddle buddy.
On an average day probably an 60 mins walks a day split between 3 walks (2 short ones). More at weekends. I guess realistically we need a lower energy breed as we wouldn’t meet high exercise needs in the week but I wouldn’t want a dog that isn’t able to cope with a couple of hours round a park. This is what’s worrying me about a shih tzu.
I love westies but I don’t have much experience of terriers.

Any first hand experience of these breeds? What they’re like with children? Exercise needs?

@Letmeout21 why have you discounted the bichon frise? Similar to a lot of what you’re considering but purebred so hopefully easier to find good breeders?

I’m not sure, I’ll have to have another look at bichons. I started with a very long list months ago, that they were on and gradually whittled it down.

Have you considered a Havanese? Similar size to Shih tzu, but a nicer face (IMO) and no face issues.
My brother has one and he is the most delightful little dog..can walk for miles or snooze all day. Needs clipping every couple of months (they keep his coat short) and he is a total lap dog with bags of personality . Not barky at all. Much better behaved than my own dog (Eurasier...I adore her but she can be a righ arse!)

I know you're in the UK so probably don't have dog shows running at present. But some of the best advice I got was to go to a show, look at the breeds you like and talk to the people who own them. Even just call registered breeders and discuss if the breed would suit your family.

With my westie I selected his breeder 4 years before I got him. I contacted her when my staffy passed away to say I'd be looking for something in about 9 months time. That worked in perfectly with her breeding plan and I got my gorgeous boy. People thought a 9 month wait was ages away, but it went really quickly (history says that's how long it takes me to get over the loss of a pet).

Terriers, as I said I love them. My type of dog. If you talk to westie owners, Westies are adored. They're lovely little dogs with 'tude.

My first dog was the staffy - so a terrier. I worked very hard to ensure he was well trained and socialised. He was the most beautiful dog. Highly intelligent, very obedient and extremely friendly. He was also cheeky. I love cheeky.

The westie is gorgeous. He is opinionated and will walk off if he doesn't want something. Now he's 5yo, I can say "stop" and he'll let me catch him even if he's not keen. Their recall needs work but will happen. As I said, he's a snuggler. On his own terms though! Loves all people and all dogs.

Needs grooming every 6-8 weeks. I do it myself.

Have a look at champdogs...I would get on a few lists of good looking breeders of a few of your favourite types......
We didn't get anywhere for a while but got on some waitlists for future planned litters...
Then got lucky with a cancellation.. the better breeders imho interviewed us as much as them...

There is no harm getting on the waitlists...

Bizarrely once we had confirmed with the lucky cancellation ...we got accepted for another

Re schnauzers they were on my list but now wouldn't be....nearly all the ones I've met since having a dog have been barky/not social... previously had met a couple of lovely ones but really put off now..

Second the Havanese. i have a friend with two and they are lovely dogs.

We have a shih tzu and had one before - happy to be lap dogs but also happy with 1–2 hours tramping round the woods. Such character! Highly recommended.

I wonder if the poster who said that Skye terriers are ugly has ever seen one? Our neighbour has a Skye and she is beautiful, with a lovely temperament. We've met others with equally lovely natures but I've never seen my neighbour's dog break into a run so perhaps not the level of enthusiasm for walks that you're looking for!
Another vote here for Cairns and poodles - my friend had a Cairn, who she sadly lost to cancer last summer, and he was the most friendly, laid back boy ever, with a real sense of mischief. We have a mini poodle and as people have said, their coats need brushing and will need clipping every 7-8 weeks or so, but they are smart, loyal, funny and will take as much or as little exercise as you give them. Happy with a couple of 30 min walks a day or going for miles in the New Forest! Unlikely to be puppy farmed as everyone wants the crosses, not the pure breed, and they are very healthy as a breed. You may wish to avoid the red ones though as they are apparently the nuttiest (so guess which colour we ended up with before we knew that!!)

I wonder if the poster who said that Skye terriers are ugly has ever seen one?
Hair so ridiculously long it completely covers the dog’s eyes and the same awful, stupidly long back that is just asking for spinal issues and diddly short legs preventing normal agility.
Yes, very attractive

it looks like somethin you would sweep your floors with

BigWolfLittleWolf

BigWolfLittleWolf each to their own but Skye terriers are a very hardy and healthy breed, they are not known for spinal issues in the way that quite a few of the other long-backed breeds are, and are generally pretty free of health issues. They might look like something you'd sweep the floor with , I agree, with but they are an old Scottish breed, originally bred for hunting. They can and do compete in agility. And let's not forget that Greyfriars Bobby was a Skye. None of this will help the OP as they are on the endangered breeds list and quite hard to obtain without a wait for a litter.

@BigWolfLittleWolf that is just the way some of them are groomed, you can trim them and get their hair cut shorter. This is the problem, people judge dogs by their google image searches, same is done for poodles, people assume they came out of their mothers womb in the continental cut, no realising that it is a groomed cut, and you can let them grow out to have the ‘teddy bear’ look or whatever the craze is these days that people assume they need a poodle cross and not an actual poodle!

How about a Border Terrier - reasonable size, eager to please, generally can cope well with family life

I’ve had so many terrier recommendations and read about so many different ones that I’m quite confused now.
I’m drawn to them. I don’t want a sensitive dog as I don’t think it would be fair to the dog in my
Household. But I’m also nervous after reading lots about what hard work terriers are and I can’t work out which one would be best.
I also like the sound of mini schnauzers, but as with the terriers, they bark too much.
I need a smallish, quite Hardy, not too sensitive dog that isn’t too energetic (no working breeds ect) doesn’t need hours of exercise but will happily take long strolls when offered, and run around with the kids. So medium exercise needs I guess. Not a dog that will go stir crazy if some days we don’t manage more than an hour but can handle a couple of hours out on other days, with regular tests if needed.
Oh and no major health problems and not likely to be puppy
Farmed.
I’m aware this is unrealistic and I’m going to need to compromise and work out what’s best for the dog.

Whippet

Honestly, OP we used to have a farm terrier - her parents were ratters round the barns. She was tough, resilient, independent and lived a long life. She did bark - passers by (so we kept her away from the front windows) and the doorbell (happy with that) - and she was prone to itchy skin, but otherwise, no trouble at all.

I used to strip her shaggy coat once or twice a year and she got a bath sometimes, but that was it for grooming. Not advised with pet rodents, but great with children.

I would never get a terrier again. Mine took two years to safely take off the lead, escaped out the front door too many times, barking is a nightmare, he also has allergies, and requires medication and special medicated baths, he doesn’t like most dogs, is aloof with the kids and doesn’t like being touched. Obviously some are fantastic but you really don’t know what dog your going to end up with until you have one. My friends have cockapoos- and they are lovely natured and very friendly little things. As for me I won’t be getting a dog ever again!

Sounds like a Shih Tzu would be perfect for you from your last description as pp have said. ShihTzu / Zuchon / Bichon Frise / Llasa Apso / Havanese. Have you discounted all these.

Miniature poodle? The easiest dog we’ve ever owned we’ve had quite a few over the years. Devoted to their family but also very welcoming to new members the more the merrier e.g. DCs partners, love cuddles more than anything else, will walk for 20 mins or three hours in all weathers/terrains, soooo so easy to train they just want to please you, cheerful and optimistic the glass is overflowing not just 1/2 full, very low prey drive, never barks, won’t eat you out of house and home. Bought from a reputable breeder they are know to be very healthy and will easily live to mid teens mine is 10 and has never had a days illness. I keep him clipped very short (he doesn’t look like a poodle) so I never groom/brush him from one trip to the groomers to the next. I’m not exactly obsessively house proud and I’d never owned a non shedding dog before but it’s an absolute revelation. Small enough to pick up if you have too; get them in the car, put them on the vets table, lift over a gate.
Only go though the UK Miniature Poodle Society they will know of any up coming litters, are obviously totally dedicated to the breed and parents will extensively health screened. Be prepared for a grilling they are not keen on all the poodle crosses around and will want to ensure you’re not buying to breed them.

They also don’t chew very much mine has never chewed anything he shouldn’t in his life. He lives in a busy household lots of people coming and going happy as Larry.

@XiCi These are probably the breeds I am looking at closest. Mainly shih tzu.

Also cavapoos if I can find a decent breeder

@IseeScottishhills I’ve had several people recommend poodles on this site but when I research I read that they can be quite highly strung, and/or sensitive. A sensitive dog probably wouldn’t like my house. I’ve also read that as they’re highly intelligent they need lots of exercise and stimulation. Eventually I’d probably need to leave the dog alone (after a year or so, first year I’d take it to my mums) for 6
Hours or so with a Walker coming in during that time if needed. It doesn’t sound like a poodle would like that, and would get bored easily?

Im aware no dogs will like to be left for long but fortunately I work close by only 6 hours 4 days a week and I’m off in school holidays. My mum lives close by and is willing to help so it’ll be a case of just trial and error of what works for the dog. The first test at least I’ll make sure it’s not alone, after that I’ll see how it goes and hopefully a dog Walker will be fine to break up the day. If not I’ll have to work something out but don’t want to set myself up for problems by knowingly getting a breed that almost certainly won’t cope with a few hours alone.

I don’t think poodles are any more highly strung than any other breed TBH. No one thinks mine is, I’ve friends with working cockers and they seem to my mind highly strung ditto GSD. My dog groomer says her heart sinks when a new client says they have a cockerpoo apparently many are totally neurotic. The breeder I bought mine from who’s a very big noise in the Miniature Poddle Society/club told me when I researching the breed that they are very adaptable when it comes to exercise I’ve also read this in a couple of books articles about them and mine certainly is. Some days he gets 20 mins round the field normally he gets about an hour sometimes 2 hours and we have walked him for 5 he seems unbothered. We are a busy extrovert family we have lots of people coming and going staying (pre covid) it’s always been like this he’s known nothing else and accepts it as normal everyone is welcome, he has a strong bond with everyone and providing we’re around new experiences are taken in his stride he rarely if ever shows any signs of anxiety/nervousness. We do no stimulating games etc with him he goes for a walk sometimes with his mates plays with his sweaty toys and sits with us when we’re here or his bed when we’re not. I have a dog walker so he’s never left for more than 4 ish hours. We’ve moved quite a bit so have had a few dog walkers and dig groomers all comment on what an easy going happy obedient little dog he is.
As I said before he never chews or damages anything when left alone or shows any other signs of boredom/anxiety/stress.
He has been very carefully bred by an exceedingly knowledgeable breeder who bred for fantastic temperament as well as looks (mum dad and his litter mates are Cruft champions). Talk to knowledgeable people in the miniature poodle society/club they are best people to advise you because they know their breed this is what I did before purchasing him as before he came on the scene we’d always had confident big out going gun dogs out circumstances changed and I did not want a neurotic yappy highly strung dog. Interestingly a friend whose always has working sprinters and labs DD has just got a miniature poodle she happily admits to looking down her nose at him initially thinking they were neurotic over pampered irritating dogs she’s a total convert and plans to get one when he current gun dog dies.

@IseeScottishhills he sounds absolutely amazing! I’ll definitely do some more research.
I’ve read the same about cockerpoos and cocker spaniels. A cocker spaniel was always my dream dog (before any research) but I’ve since found out they can be highly strung, sensitive and have issues with resource guarding and separation anxiety.
I don’t suppose you could inbox me a photo of your dog? Don’t worry if you’d rather not. Thanks for your advice.

Poodles often have sensitive tummies and can be very fussy eaters. A lot of cavapoos inherit that! Mine will only eat kibble if we add a little human food. He has just had his lunch: kibble with mashed potato and broccoli!

I'm pretty sure that shih tzu, zuchon and bichon frise hate being alone so you may need to rethink those if you are going to be out 6hrs per day. Have you looked at Llasa Apso?