My dog has just done the worst thing

[93sdb]

Hes just chased a sheep into a pond in the snow. Im heartbroken.

When he was younger he chased sheep before and he has ALWAYS been on a lead since then. Sheep or not.

We were walking down a field a walk through daily that has never had sheep in in the 20 years I've lived here. He was on his extendable lead and it was on loose but he was right next to me. I opened the gate to go through and felt him pull on the lead. Saw the sheep and put the clip on so he couldn't get any closer and the lead snapped. He chased the sheep and would not come back. One jumped into a pond and I finally got him back.

Another girl from the house nearby helped me get the sheep out but it went into shock but was still breathing. I put my coat around it and sat with her whilst she called the farmer and another lad came over and said the farmer was going to be furious as this had happened earlier this morning. I gave them my number said I would pay any vet bills etc and left it with my coat wrapped around it.

The farmer has just called and spoken to my dad as I was too upset. He's shouted at my dad (understandably) and is threatening to get the police involved and wants immediate compensation and threatened to come and shoot my dog. The sheep is alive and is warming back up in this man's house and is expected to make a full recovery and I am going to walk up there later (WITHOUT THE DOG) to check on it.

I just wanted somewhere to write and be devestated. Im upset how the farmer spoke to my dad as it was a complete and utter accident but I understand his frustration. I wouldn't of even walked in the field with my dog if I had any clue there was going to be sheep in there. He hasn't got excited around them since the first time but I would never risk it.

jeeze the ammountof obvious bots is rediculous. just saw the thread whilst browsing mn and can't believe some of these responses. at the end of the day she wasn't a twatish owner. she walked in a field that normally didn't have sheep in. suddenly she realised there was sheep so she clipped the lead propperly which snapped before she could do anything.. the farmer was right to be very annoyed, but at the same time he had no right to make such threats towards the OP

@Apachepony - Leaving aside the law, would you consider it morally justifiable if I shot the cow to save the dog? You have made it clear that you think the farmer would be morally justified if he shot the dog to save the sheep.

The livestock has monetary value to the farmer, where the dog has emotional value to the owner. If your answer to the question is no, it’s clear that you believe the worth of an animal should primarily be measured in monetary terms. The dog should be shot, but the cow is a valuable asset, so it shouldn’t be shot.

I don’t see the world like that.

No, it is not morally justifiable to shoot the cow (unless it was self-defence from the poor woman who died, as I’m sure you understand I rank her life above the cow or the dog). That is assuming that the cow is in the field that it’s meant to be in, you can’t just enter into someone’s field and kill their animal. It’s nothing to do with monetary value - your dog does not to me hold any more worth (morally or otherwise) than a cow just because you happen to be emotionally attached to it. I most definitely would not have the right to walk on a beach with a dog where I know there are cows and then shoot those cows, the very notion is ridiculous. I don’t know how big your dog is, but let’s imagine a massive dog entered into your garden and launched a savage attack on your dog - would you feel entitled to kill that dog (appreciating this is very hypothetical!) to save your dog’s life?

@EYProvider

We’re talking about damage to business assets here, not to people, and especially not to children.

Leaving aside the law,
would you consider it morally justifiable if I shot the cow to save the dog?
Both are animals and sentimental feelings about the dog don't come into it. You can do whatever you want with your hypothetical gun, but the cow has a right to be there and her right to be there trumps the dog's right. So you could expect a hefty bill for your use of a gun to kill an animal guilty only of following its nature on land it has a right to occupy. It does actually come down to the law when all is said and done.

How much better would it be to familiarise yourself with the Countryside Code, with the law as it pertains to your intention to exercise your dog on land someone else owns and has a right to use as he wishes, and to observe the excellent advice to free the dog to flee if charged.

Fwiw, all of my ancestors on one side were farmers and the family farm is still a going concern with my cousin at the helm. Your ignorant pronouncements on 'business assets' reveal that you know nothing about farmers or farming, or the bond between farmers and their 'assets'. My grandfather and his neighbours went out on bitterly cold nights in lambing season, peeled off their coats to carry sickly lambs home in to warm by their kitchen fires, and knew all of their herds and flocks as individuals and by their little family groups.

suddenly she realised there was sheep so she clipped the lead propperly which snapped before she could do anything

Dog walkers using farmland to exercise their dogs are obliged to have their dogs completely under control at all times.

That means never having to clip the lead 'properly', because it should be clipped at all times.

Better still, use a lead that is fit for purpose.

@mathanxiety my point exactly but you’ll get lunched in here by the historical dog owners who think they are about the law and that their dog’s exercise is more important that the life of a sheep.

*lynched! Bloody autocorrect.

@mathanxiety

suddenly she realised there was sheep so she clipped the lead propperly which snapped before she could do anything

Dog walkers using farmland to exercise their dogs are obliged to have their dogs completely under control at all times.

That means never having to clip the lead 'properly', because it should be clipped at all times.

Better still, use a lead that is fit for purpose.

And, even better, check what is in the field BEFORE going in, and then either avoid it or make doubly sure that the lead is secure.

Yes definitely mathanxiety, I grew up on a farm and although obviously my devotion to my dog at the time (as a pet more than a (not very trained at all!) sheepdog) was greater than my feelings for the sheep, we cared for the sheep and were upset at lost lambs & sad mothers, poorly sheep etc. Not that I believe the worth of an animal can be purely measured in how emotionally attached it’s owner is to it, as I said! We never had any sheep worrying incidents. We don’t have the same public walking rights as England, but my parents allow people to walk over the land and I genuinely find it mind blowing that if a walker’s dog chased and hurt sheep, that dogs owner would find it not a big deal because the sheep are just a financial commodity, and the fault is with the sheep being in the field.

On an almost COMPLETELY unrelated note, here is a happier story than the cow article about a hike up a mountain and a dog, certainly gave me a smile in these crap times:
m.independent.ie/irish-news/couple-who-rescued-dog-from-mountain-would-do-it-all-again-40073126.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR1_G9scohjGSkjcJ6MnF0fV9uXsmdmak7yfANmPWAH6zA3H7Hy53XMot6k

A cow is a prey animal but her instinct is to protect calves and the herd in general. A ewe will face up to a dog if she has lambs with her.
A dog is a predator and its instinct is to hunt for food.

Ok, so to summarise:

1. If a cow attacks my dog while I am walking my dog on a public footpath which happens to run through a farmer’s field, of course I do not have the right to shoot the cow to protect my dog. The cow belongs to the farmer. (The dog belongs to me, but so what?)
2. If my dog veers off the public path and chases a sheep, of course the farmer has the right to shoot my dog to protect the sheep. The sheep belongs to the farmer. (The dog belongs to me, but so what?)
3. The cow is the superior moral being, as it is only attacking the dog to protect its calf. Allegedly.
4. The farmer should not really threaten to go to the dog owner’s house with a gun to take revenge on the dog, but we should understand why anger might motivate him to do so. After all, the sheep belongs to the farmer.
5. Furthermore, the dog owner should get on her knees and beg the farmer’s forgiveness because it is really her fault that he threatened her with a gun. She made him do it.
6. The farmer is working to ‘Feed the Nation’ and therefore has ultimate moral superiority.
7. Under no circumstances must anyone mention that the farmer has received subsidies for the past 20 years to not grow food.

Obviously these rules were written by card carrying members of the farming community.

[quote Apachepony]Yes definitely mathanxiety, I grew up on a farm and although obviously my devotion to my dog at the time (as a pet more than a (not very trained at all!) sheepdog) was greater than my feelings for the sheep, we cared for the sheep and were upset at lost lambs & sad mothers, poorly sheep etc. Not that I believe the worth of an animal can be purely measured in how emotionally attached it’s owner is to it, as I said! We never had any sheep worrying incidents. We don’t have the same public walking rights as England, but my parents allow people to walk over the land and I genuinely find it mind blowing that if a walker’s dog chased and hurt sheep, that dogs owner would find it not a big deal because the sheep are just a financial commodity, and the fault is with the sheep being in the field.

On an almost COMPLETELY unrelated note, here is a happier story than the cow article about a hike up a mountain and a dog, certainly gave me a smile in these crap times:
m.independent.ie/irish-news/couple-who-rescued-dog-from-mountain-would-do-it-all-again-40073126.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR1_G9scohjGSkjcJ6MnF0fV9uXsmdmak7yfANmPWAH6zA3H7Hy53XMot6k[/quote]
This is sweet. But how do you square this with later sending the sheep to a factory to have their throats slit? Genuine question - I would be interested to know.

@EYProvider

Ok, so to summarise:

1. If a cow attacks my dog while I am walking my dog on a public footpath which happens to run through a farmer’s field, of course I do not have the right to shoot the cow to protect my dog. The cow belongs to the farmer. (The dog belongs to me, but so what?)
2. If my dog veers off the public path and chases a sheep, of course the farmer has the right to shoot my dog to protect the sheep. The sheep belongs to the farmer. (The dog belongs to me, but so what?)
3. The cow is the superior moral being, as it is only attacking the dog to protect its calf. Allegedly.
4. The farmer should not really threaten to go to the dog owner’s house with a gun to take revenge on the dog, but we should understand why anger might motivate him to do so. After all, the sheep belongs to the farmer.
5. Furthermore, the dog owner should get on her knees and beg the farmer’s forgiveness because it is really her fault that he threatened her with a gun. She made him do it.
6. The farmer is working to ‘Feed the Nation’ and therefore has ultimate moral superiority.
7. Under no circumstances must anyone mention that the farmer has received subsidies for the past 20 years to not grow food.

Obviously these rules were written by card carrying members of the farming community.

I think this is pretty accurate actually.

Genuinely horrified by the posters dismissing the farmer threats to come round the OP's house with a gun with a 'he shouldn't've said it but you upset him, make sure your lead doesn't break next time'.

The cow is in the field. It has no choice
It's your choice to go into the field with your dog and take the risk with the cattle.

I walk regularly in the countryside with my dogs and 100% take responsibility for our encounters with livestock.

mobile.twitter.com/lambingtales/status/1360983697466523652/photo/1

Genuinely amazed that dog owners don’t think they should be closely in charge of their animal around sheep, when that animal has the potential to maim and kill. Gives dog owners a very bad name.

@Poorlykitten - Genuinely amazed that you would reach that conclusion from anything that’s been said on this thread.

What has the farmer’s perceived right by the farming community to threaten the dog owner with a gun got to do with anyone failing to understand that a dog will chase sheep given half the chance?

You can’t justify the farmer’s actions (albeit that you have tried to do so), so you are deliberately obfuscating to shift the blame from the farmer to the dog owner.

The dog owner was the victim in this scenario, not the farmer. Yes, the sheep belonged to the farmer so at first he was hard done by. However, being hard done by did not give him the right to turn into an aggressor.

The sheep got off fairly badly I would say.

Yes, the incident would never have happened if the owner had kept close control of her animal. That’s a fact. Everything that happened afterwards was unnecessary, upsetting and massively escalated. I have had to repeat this several times, so hopefully this will be the last, the farmer should never have threatened to shoot the dog. Fortunately nothing further happened, the dog was not harmed. What do we learn from the lesson? That you should never enter farmers land without your dog on a close lead and under firm control. This has been my message all the way through and seems to be being ignored. I have never tried to justified the farmers actions, I have said I can imagine he would be upset. I have never once said that because he was upset he’s got a right to wave a gun about. However appears lots of people on these threads are unable to read properly or just happy to bb deliberately obtuse.

The dog owner was definitely not the victim here! @thedancingbear, we bred only, so didn’t send sheep to the slaughter house. It wasn't our family’s main income either. As a child, I didn’t eat lamb for a long time (scared of eating a pet lamb I had). As an adult I have no moral qualms about lamb as I know how they’ve lived and it’s pretty free range. I think humans are evolved to be omnivores but if you eat meat you should be aware of where it comes from, while ensuring the animal is treated well while alive. I eat free range chicken etc. If you’re vegan obviously you’ll take a different view. But if you’re vegan, how in gods name can you be a-ok with a predator that is kept by humans for their own amusement causing pain and suffering to a defenceless animal? Or think that the human failing to keep said predator under control is the victim?

Poor you @93sdb just dreadful

Dp lives rurally and at the moment we are only walking pup near the house. My dsis is a farmer and I know how nervous sheep get at this time of year. I won't even let pup in a field on a lead near the sheep - it's just not worth it. I do think there should be a ban on dogs being walked in fields till lambing season is over. No one needs to walk in a field and I'm sure everyone can wait till lambing is done!

Btw we have a right of way over our land and the behaviour of some people is just unbelievable. We spent 30 mins this morning picking up poo that dog owners had left where their dog had pooed on our land. We have even stapled a bin to our gate with poo bags that people can use they don't bother.

I don't know what it is about some dog owners but they really do think they trump everyone else!

People can use but they don't bother !

@Poorlykitten - Free range? What for the six months they’re allowed to live, you mean?

I wonder why the farmer doesn’t worry about the welfare of his sheep when he’s tearing their babies away from them to be loaded on the lorry for the abettoir?

What about the trauma of that for the sheep, or are we just supposed to pretend they don’t notice?

[quote EYProvider]@Poorlykitten - Free range? What for the six months they’re allowed to live, you mean?

I wonder why the farmer doesn’t worry about the welfare of his sheep when he’s tearing their babies away from them to be loaded on the lorry for the abettoir?

What about the trauma of that for the sheep, or are we just supposed to pretend they don’t notice?[/quote]
No, poorlykitten's family sold the sheep to someone else to have their necks slit in a factory, so their suffering doesn't count.

They're animal lovers, see (except for dogs, which you can shoot, and women, who you can threaten with guns).