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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Do you use raw food - or have you found it too much hassle?

183 replies

loveyouradvice · 21/01/2021 21:48

Hmm... I've realised that his Lily's kitchen is NOT giving him the best diet and have been reading up on Allaboutdogfood. (Great website!)

Although I love the idea of having all the benefits of raw food, I am a bit concerned it might be quite a hassle

What's your experience?
How have you made your life easier doing it?
What's your least favourite thing about it?

And what do you do when travelling ... my wee fella is a brilliant traveller but would love to take easy food with us - can he switch to freeze dried or something else for a few days?

OP posts:
blowinahoolie · 22/01/2021 15:01

She will get a chicken wing to chomp on after she is six months old too, helps with cleaning their teeth.

Lots of pros and cons to each way of feeding it seems. Vet wasn't impressed when puppy went for the puppy check but I suppose it's all the risks that come with raw feeding over tinned food and kibble.

Snaplittledragon · 22/01/2021 15:01

She gets a tablespoon with each meal. Not a bucketload
Even so, I don’t think it’s wise to add anything considering how prone giants are to problems with their joints.
Even if it is only a tablespoon.

blowinahoolie · 22/01/2021 16:54

I appreciate what you are saying snaplittledragon but the dogs fair well on it. She is gaining the right amount of weight. We weigh her weekly. Thanks for your concern thoughSmile

moosemama · 22/01/2021 17:05

@Sitdowncupoftea

I've never fed my dogs raw they are dogs not wolves. You can get really good quality dog foods now and top up with other things like fish (cooked) etc. I think the raw feeding is a craze that came in a few years ago personally. My vets advice against it due to parasites and bacteria. Its up to you what you feed your dog on but to me there's no benefit from feeding raw.
The first commercial dog food sold in England went on sale in 1860. Prior to that dogs were fed table scraps and bones. So, in evolutionary terms, they’ve been eating commercially prepared foods for a blink of an eye compared to how long they’ve consumed mainly meat and veg.

I haven’t fed raw since 2003 and fed it for years prior to that, so it’s hardly a craze and plenty of vets, including my own at the time, do support it, as long as it’s done properly. I have definitely seen the benefits of feeding raw, with healthy weight dogs that had beautiful shiny coats and sparkling white teeth until the day they died. That’s compared to when I had to switch to kibble and found one of the more highly acclaimed, really expensive, dry foods stained my dogs’ teeth and one of them developed dry, itchy skin, when ostensibly the ingredients should have been similar to what they were being fed on raw. I never had to clean my dogs’ teeth until I stopped feeding raw, now I have to do it daily. Tiny poos and fresh breath is another bonus.

One of my problems with commercial foods is the labelling, even on the more expensive, good quality kibbles. It’s very hard to get a clear an honest picture of what they contain, as there are all sorts of laws governing what they do and don’t have to include on the label.

Also, for me personally, I felt that food where the raw ingredients are so poor quality that they have to be super heated and then extruded, to the extent they then have to spray it with flavourings and multivitamins can’t possibly be healthy long-term.

Obviously there are now cold-pressed and dehydrated foods and even fresh-cooked/home delivered as alternatives as well, so there’s pretty much an option to suit everyone.

That said, as you point out, there are also issues with raw feeding, in terms of bacteria/contamination. If feeding complete raw, it’s important to buy from certificated suppliers who test every batch for contamination - they don’t all do this. With diy raw it’s more complicated and preferable to go for the best, quality human-food-grade raw ingredients you can afford. Plus of course, it’s really important to maintain stringent hygiene when handling it.

I say all of the above as someone who is currently feeding kibble and has a 15 year old, large dog, who has always done so (he’s the wuss that was scared of raw food) and is really healthy for his age.

Ultimately, as you say, it’s down to each of us to research the options and decide what we feel most comfortable with feeding our dogs, within the bounds of what suits them as individuals and what we can reasonable manage (re storage, handling and feeding) on day to day basis.

cjpark · 22/01/2021 17:16

Ive just moved Dog onto Poppy's picnic raw meatballs as he was finding Bella and duke a bit mushy. He's only 8kg, doesn't need much but he has a drawer in the freezer and monthly delivery.
I defrost a tray of meatball alternate days and it keeps in a Tupperware in the fridge. If we're travelling for a weekend, it defrosts in the car on the way there or pop it in a small cooler with ice packs.
I love the way his poos are tiny and firm and dont smell. Much more pleasant!

PollyRoulson · 22/01/2021 17:23

Raw feeding is more hassle than grabbing a cup full of kibble.

To make it easier:_
Feed complete

I feed Nutriment and have oblong containers that the chubbs fit into.
So each evening take out a chubb out of the freezer and into the container.

It is easier to weigh out for each dog in the morning when it has defrosted.

They can eat it frozen but it is so hard to cut up.

I would find it hard to do without a freezer.

I sadly do have a dog only dishwasher where all the raw dog stuff is washed (this is because I have a lot of animals and use it for all of their stuff)

When we travel (hard to remember how that goes!) we may take some raw with us in cold boxes for a day or too but the good thing about raw feed dogs is that they can go back to other food without the transition time so easy to either give wet food or good quality kibble the cold pressed kibble with high protein content works well.

I would be lying to say it was not a faff but the benefits out weigh the slight hassle. So many less poos to pick up and healthy looking dogs with amazing teeth Smile

blowinahoolie · 22/01/2021 17:54

Going by the BCS she scored a 4 which is "ideal", vet said this score needs to be kept if possible as she grows.

picklemewalnuts · 22/01/2021 19:15

Another big bonus with raw is that dogs don't seem to get fat. Possibly because it's a more natural, filling food than kibble. The equivalent of junk food, in terms of being dense in calories, tasty and easy to eat!

loveyouradvice · 22/01/2021 20:18

Well I've taken the plunge - ordered some Chicken and Chicken/Lamb complete... arriving in a few days and we'll see how it goes!

One thing that confused me is that some foods - like Paleo Ridge - seemed to be for "working dogs" while others were for "pet dogs". Any thoughts on this?

OP posts:
Cripesalive · 22/01/2021 20:22

Another that feeds nutriment. Her digestive issues have completely cleared up, coat is shiny and most importantly she absolutely loves it. It’s really not not inconvenient or particularly messy (I feed her on a lickimat to slow her down). I use forthglade when travelling and when she’s eating at daycare as I get nervous about the raw food not being refrigerated for hours on end. I’ve not had any issues mixing that with the raw.

Veterinari · 22/01/2021 20:36

Just make sure you don't have anyone thats I no improvised I contact with the dog. Raw food has been associated with outbreaks of TB and E. coli and associated with at least one death in humans.

If you feed uncooked food, then all the bacteria you'd usually cookout enter your pet's system. Often animals themselves don't become sick but become chronic carriers/shedders and their faeces and saliva can be a health hazard.

blowinahoolie · 22/01/2021 20:59

Didn't realise that Veterinari about saliva issue. Chatted with breeder over the phone today, she said it's not important to feed raw at every meal, so we are going to reduce the frequency now. Kibble itself is fine. Occasionally sardines to go in with it. Interesting topic. Have enjoyed reading different experiences of raw feeding.

Veterinari · 22/01/2021 21:04

Here's some literature on the downside of raw feeding

And no, before someone raises the cliche- vets in practice are not paid by dog food companies - we deal in actual evidence not conspiracy theories

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.vettimes.co.uk/news/certain-canine-raw-food-diets-massive-human-health-risk/" target="_blank">http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.vettimes.co.uk/news/certain-canine-raw-food-diets-massive-human-health-risk/

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/01/11/raw-pet-food-trend-risks-ecoli-salmonella-owners-new-study/" target="_blank">http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/01/11/raw-pet-food-trend-risks-ecoli-salmonella-owners-new-study/

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/infection-and-global-health/research/pet-health/raw-pet-food/

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/10/four-stec-infections-one-person-dead-after-exposure-to-raw-pet-food/" target="_blank">http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/10/four-stec-infections-one-person-dead-after-exposure-to-raw-pet-food/

Snaplittledragon · 22/01/2021 21:10

@Veterinari i do have a question...

You said: And no, before someone raises the cliche- vets in practice are not paid by dog food companies - we deal in actual evidence not conspiracy theories

The foods sold by vets, like Hills, Royal Canin etc appear to have very, very little meat content.
The majority appears to be grain, often wheat.

So what, in a vet’s opinion is the ‘best’ food for a dog and why?
What makes foods sold in the vet office so good when the ingredients appear to be so bad (cheap, low quality, grain based)?

PollyRoulson · 22/01/2021 21:12

Working dog food can be VAT exempt.

For Veterinari on a raw thread post that is a very mild post Smile

blowinahoolie · 22/01/2021 21:13

Thank you Veterinari will do some reading.

Snaplittledragon · 22/01/2021 21:17

@Veterinari

For example, Hills science diet adult for small dog’s ingredients are:

‘Maize, brown rice, brewers' rice, wheat, maize gluten meal, lamb meal, barley, oats, animal fat, digest, soybean meal, vegetable oil, flaxseed, dried tomato pomace, dried citrus pulp, spinach powder’

It’s almost all cereal!
Bar a bit of lamb meal, fat and ‘digest’ whatever that heck that is.
How can that possibly be a healthy diet for a dog..?

raspberrysundaes · 22/01/2021 21:18

[quote Snaplittledragon]@Veterinari i do have a question...

You said: And no, before someone raises the cliche- vets in practice are not paid by dog food companies - we deal in actual evidence not conspiracy theories

The foods sold by vets, like Hills, Royal Canin etc appear to have very, very little meat content.
The majority appears to be grain, often wheat.

So what, in a vet’s opinion is the ‘best’ food for a dog and why?
What makes foods sold in the vet office so good when the ingredients appear to be so bad (cheap, low quality, grain based)?[/quote]
Yes, I'd be interested in this too. The quality of ingredients seems very poor, yet every single vet practise I've been to that sells food, sells it from one of the above companies.

Why is that if there's no financial incentive/bonus involved?

blowinahoolie · 22/01/2021 21:29

This has really made me think very carefully about whether to continue down raw feeding route, tbh. One family local to us fed their St Bernard dog kibble her whole life and she lived to 11 years old. Nothing else, just kibble. They are doing mixed feeding this time with their new puppy (another Saint).

SatsumasOrClementines · 22/01/2021 21:32

I've never fed my dogs raw they are dogs not wolves.
No, they are dogs. And dogs have a digestive system that can happily digest raw food (just like wolves but unlike humans).

They’re supposed to eat meat. What they’re not supposed to eat is excessive amounts of cereals, grains and bulking agents found in rubbish kibble.

I don’t mind what a dog eats (kibble, wet or raw) as long as it works for them, for the owners and has a high nutritional value.

I’m also really interested in @Snaplittledragon’s question.

Snaplittledragon · 22/01/2021 21:39

One family local to us fed their St Bernard dog kibble her whole life and she lived to 11 years old
Ah but what other factors might be at play?
Was it fully vaccinated or minimally?
Underweight, ideal weight or overweight?
What about wormers and flea control?
Was it neutered and if so what age?
I’m not saying that vaccinations or conventional wormers or neutering or anything are dangerous, but I notice that no large scale research has ever been done.
Well, no, research has been done on neutering.
But not the rest.

@blowinahoolie it may interest you to know that kibble was linked in a study (must try and find it) as increasing the risk of bloat.
Which as I imagine you know giants are very prone to.
Kibbles that had fat as a high ingredient increased the risk even more.

Snaplittledragon · 22/01/2021 22:02

@blowinahoolie
It was the Purdue study.
Quotes are from an article discussing the study, not quotes from the actual study.

Several diet-related factors were associated with a higher incidence of bloat. These include feeding only dry food, or feeding a single large daily meal

Dogs fed dry foods containing fat among the first four ingredients had a 170 percent higher risk for developing bloat

Dogs fed dry foods containing citric acid and were moistened prior to feeding had a 320 percent higher risk for developing bloat

Conversely, feeding a dry food containing a rendered meat-and-bone meal decreased risk by 53 percent in comparison with the overall risk for the dogs in the study. Mixing table food or canned food into dry food also decreased the risk of bloat

During the past 30 years there has been a 1,500 percent increase in the incidence of bloat, and this has coincided with the increased feeding of dry dog foods

There is a much lower incidence of bloat in susceptible breeds in Australia and New Zealand. Feeding practices in these countries have been found to be less dependent on dry foods

Imo, dogs are very similar to wolves.
So similar that they can interbreed and produce viable offspring.
So similar that some believe the domestic dog is a subspecies of Wolf.

So the idea that a diet comprised of mostly grain with very little meat could ever be healthy makes no sense to me.
You couldn’t get much further than the natural diet of a Wolf than Maize, oats, soybeans etc

I think the studies linked about the possible human health implications of raw feeding need to be taken seriously, but imo, thinking purely of the dog’s health, it is what they are meant to be eating imo

Veterinari · 22/01/2021 22:09

[quote Snaplittledragon]@Veterinari

For example, Hills science diet adult for small dog’s ingredients are:

‘Maize, brown rice, brewers' rice, wheat, maize gluten meal, lamb meal, barley, oats, animal fat, digest, soybean meal, vegetable oil, flaxseed, dried tomato pomace, dried citrus pulp, spinach powder’

It’s almost all cereal!
Bar a bit of lamb meal, fat and ‘digest’ whatever that heck that is.
How can that possibly be a healthy diet for a dog..?[/quote]
Because commercial diets are developed by veterinary nutritionists to be both complete and safe for humans. You don't have to buy your diet from the vet - vets tend to stick brands that produce prescription diets with hypoallergenic/renal/sensitive variants - that's why those brands are stocked - they have an evidence based therapeutic indcation.

You're perfectly free to nip you the pet ship instead - the point is the diets are nutritionally complete and just as importantly safe for public health

Veterinari · 22/01/2021 22:10

It's also worth mentioning that as you've not actually included compositional data it's impossible to ascertain whether in fact the example you've given is almost all cereal or not

Veterinari · 22/01/2021 22:16

[quote Snaplittledragon]@blowinahoolie
It was the Purdue study.
Quotes are from an article discussing the study, not quotes from the actual study.

Several diet-related factors were associated with a higher incidence of bloat. These include feeding only dry food, or feeding a single large daily meal

Dogs fed dry foods containing fat among the first four ingredients had a 170 percent higher risk for developing bloat

Dogs fed dry foods containing citric acid and were moistened prior to feeding had a 320 percent higher risk for developing bloat

Conversely, feeding a dry food containing a rendered meat-and-bone meal decreased risk by 53 percent in comparison with the overall risk for the dogs in the study. Mixing table food or canned food into dry food also decreased the risk of bloat

During the past 30 years there has been a 1,500 percent increase in the incidence of bloat, and this has coincided with the increased feeding of dry dog foods

There is a much lower incidence of bloat in susceptible breeds in Australia and New Zealand. Feeding practices in these countries have been found to be less dependent on dry foods

Imo, dogs are very similar to wolves.
So similar that they can interbreed and produce viable offspring.
So similar that some believe the domestic dog is a subspecies of Wolf.

So the idea that a diet comprised of mostly grain with very little meat could ever be healthy makes no sense to me.
You couldn’t get much further than the natural diet of a Wolf than Maize, oats, soybeans etc

I think the studies linked about the possible human health implications of raw feeding need to be taken seriously, but imo, thinking purely of the dog’s health, it is what they are meant to be eating imo[/quote]
You don't seem to understand the actual article you're quoting.

Bloat is primarily a breed specific disorder - it relates much more to morphology than diet.

If you are looking at dietary risks then
Conversely, feeding a dry food containing a rendered meat-and-bone meal decreased risk by 53 percent in comparison with the overall risk for the dogs in the study. Mixing table food or canned food into dry food also decreased the risk of bloat.

Pretty much covers all good quality commercial dried foods.
You absolutely can aim for a wolf diet if you want. But if you think the average Great Dane, Newfie or Frenchie has much behavioural, morphological or physiological relationship to a wolf you're kidding yourself. Also, Wolves generally live about 6 years 🤷‍♀️

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