Puppy Survival Thread - January - February

[C4itl]

Continuing on the thread from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4105422-Puppy-Survival-Thread-December?pg=28 before we hit the message limit

I’ve found quite a few of C4pups teeth, the front ones he definitely swallowed but the big ones at the back he’s spat out onto the floor. You should be able to tell if they’ve lost teeth as the news ones come through really fast (in my experience anyway) and they’re completely rounded on the top rather than jagged

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I never noticed ours losing any! The vet confirms all her adult teeth are in safely so they must have all fallen out. I reckon she lost most at daycare (the owner gave us some that he'd found) and swallowed the rest.

@EmzBPupMum Same age and same issue for us. He knows to go outside, today he rang the bell to have a wee twice, plus I took him out a couple of times (after food, after he woke up) asked him to wee and he did. He 100% knows. This afternoon at 415 he asked to go out for a wee, then again at 455. He then wee'd on the floor inside at 515, 545 and 7pm. I don't even know how this is possible, they weren't small wees at all. He is a tiny 5kg dog but he is able to hold wees for several hours in the day and 8-10 hrs at night.

We just can't figure it out, during the day he'll go every 3-4 hrs then once DH and the kids are around it all goes crazy. It seems that if I am not devoting my time to him he just wees indoors, he also does it if I leave the room, it's like he squeezes out a little wee in protest.

It is not always as bad as tonight but pretty much every evening he will wee indoors, it is always 20-60mins after a previous wee. Short of being outside every 15 mins I am not sure what to do. I don't even think that'll help as he knows full well what to do.

I would love to know how to fix it. It's never poos, he's always been spot on with them outside. We thought we'd cracked it as he was doing so well, then it regressed then we thought we'd cracked it again and this week it's worse. If he was weeing that often all day I would suspect a medical issue but I don't think it can be.

Our pup has just started losing teeth too, just the front bottom ones so far. He's still biting lots though but it's funny when he tries to bite and just gets you with the gummy bits

I haven't noticed any lost teeth either, my big toe can confirm they still feel very pointy!

So we upped the high value treats and had the best leash walk yet this evening! Londonpup had a bit more control around other people and even managed to walk past some without giving it too much thought. It’s the little things!

Hopefully he gets the hang of it a bit more now and we can make the food less and less

@EmzBPupMum what did you do when he peed in front of you. He needs to know its wrong. Whilst there is no point in punishing a dog because you find a puddle, if you catch them in the act a swift no, pick him up and take him straight outside.

@Sparkle79 this is now what I’m going to tell myself too Yes second day was fabulous too! He said all the big dogs slept on the floor while this tiny one had stolen one of the big beds to herself

Had a big cry this morning, feeling proper down, I just can't imagine life going forward with a dog right now, I was up at 315 and 615 with him, couldn't get back to sleep in between so basically 3 hours sleep. This is worse he has slept ever to be honest. It has got progressively worse recently, just as we thought we had cracked it all. I can't stop crying, I feel absolutely ridiculous and an awful person. It's come on all of a sudden, yesterday I was literally responding to a post saying how whilst it's overwhelming I adore him, I literally can't even look at him today.

I don't know what's wrong with me. I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, he kept weeing indoors last night, up in the night, wouldn't stop biting me this morning (constant, launching at me), biting DSs feet then his laces, wouldn't drop a wrapper that had fallen out of the bin and it just hit me that I am literally tied to this, I couldn't leave him with anyone as he would wee everywhere, bite them and they would be on edge worrying about him picking stuff up.

I feel like the worst person ever so can't tell anyone in real life. Last night he was in my arms actually laying back sleeping like a baby and now I feel like this.

Oh gosh @PugInTheHouse I’m so sorry you’re feeling down. I just want you to know you aren’t alone in feeling like this. I’m still struggling and wonder how we will ever get to a point where he isn’t the main stress point of the house. I completely underestimated the impact of the lack of sleep (he sleeps through but wakes early). Also the inability to see a future where we can leave him with anyone, who is going to want to look after a dog with health problems?

It’s a real life adjustment that I thought we were ready for and I’m gutted I’m finding it so difficult. So I just wanted to post some solidarity, especially since our pups are the same age

Thanks @GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I know I shouldn't complain, especially as I know you are going through a lot, I feel the same about feeling ready for it also, we have worked so hard on the training, in some ways he is so good but it is very selective with it and it just all hit me today. I need to give myself a kick up the backside I know!

I shouted at DS2 this morning and I feel awful, he is not good at dealing with pugpup and rather than do what we have taught him to stop biting he swings his feet around and shouts no, or repeats the commands over and over again which does no good. I was horrible and said 'he's supposed to be your dog and you aren't interested'. He is now off at school and I feel a complete wreck about it all. Poor boy, he was so upset.

@PugInTheHouse Don't worry, I'm sure everyone has felt like this a number of times throughout the whole thing!

is he getting enough sleep during the day? That could be the cause of his biting and weeing inside as when C4pup used to not have enough sleep all of his training would just go out of the window as he was just overexcited and didn't care.

Are you making a big fuss when he picks something up that he should? Our trainer said that if you go and lunge towards them to try and take something off them they tend to keep hold of it more, whereas if you just ignore them they'll realise that they're not getting anything from it and just drop it and move on. I understand this isn't as easy with things from outside like chewing gum and slugs etc but inside I wouldn't worry too much about wrappers. C4pup has taken to pulling threads out of my rug and I was worried he would eat them at first but he just chews them and spits them out.

I can't remember whether you were one of the ones who said you were taking your dog to daycare, if not, I really really recommend it. It's great for them, they have loads of fun and you get a couple of hours break. Also great for socialisation too! We just do 12-3 Monday and Friday and it's made everything a lot more manageable. Also, they come back absolutely exhausted so you'll have a pretty easy night too

For the night time weeing, what is the routine? Do you move the time forward a few minutes each night? We've only just managed to get C4pup to go from 10-8 but I think our pups are a similar age

Aw @PugInTheHouse you're not a bad person at all and I can totally relate. I have spent more time crying in the 2 months we've had him than I think I've cried in years. I knew it would be a tie but that was without even thinking about the added issues, lead pulling, car chasing, eating things he shouldn't, biting etc etc. It's all very overwhelming and makes you feel completely trapped. He consumes my thoughts all day and I never feel relaxed. Even when he's asleep I can't fully relax because I'm on edge that something might wake him and then he'll be overtired and bitey.

We just have to keep telling ourselves that all our hard work will pay off and we'll have lovely dogs and one day we will read back through these posts and won't believe we ever wrote them!

Thanks @C4itl Yesterday I don't think he had enough sleep, he just wouldn't settle which is very unusual for him, thinking back perhaps my stress started then as I struggled to work during the afternoon as he was all over the place, I can't leave him to it as he is not reliable enough with his wees so I was up and down. He was exhausted and eventually dropped off just before his dinner so he had it at 7pm instead of 6. That may have been why his wees were worse yesterday.

I asked him to drop it but he just ignored, I should have just left him to it but I was struggling from all the other stuff so it's almost like if he had dropped it I would have felt he was at least doing that, silly I know.

He hasn't been to daycare but I think I could look into it as it sounds like it would be beneficial.

Re night time, since a few weeks after getting him at 8 weeks he has sleptin his crate upstairs from 1030/11 till just before 7. He usually sleeps downstairs from 830/9pm then we wake him for a wee when we go up. A few weeks ago he started waking at 415 for a poo (never a wee) as wasn't going for a poo late at night any more so last poo 630-8pm, we moved his dinner from 730pm to 6pm but it just meant he now has a poo around 630-830pm then up at around 515/530, then back to sleep till about 615. It makes no sense to me why he is sleeping worse at night. We never feed him till 7am so he's not assuming he'll get food. He is 22 weeks.

@Sparkle79 yes I hope it all comes together soon, I know deep down they are just babies still but it always seems that everyones pups in RL were toilet trained the day they arrived and could be left for 4 hours at 4 months etc etc. I am sure that a lot of it is false memories though as it's like child birth, it never seems so bad years later. My best hour of sleep is when DH gets up at 615 with him until my alarm goes off haha.

I am sure lockdown doesn't help, everything is just the same old thing every day!

@PugInTheHouse oh I think they can definitely tell when we're stressed and use this as a time to make us even more stressed

Is he still on three meals a day? C4pup was pooing a lot when he was on three meals and I've changed his food to something a bit better and that seems to have changed his poo schedule too. I also try to keep him outside for a bit longer around 9-10 if he hasn't done a poo to try and encourage him to do one. The other day he hadn't done one since around 3pm and when I came down in the morning he'd done one on the kitchen floor, so we're not 100% sorted yet!

Hopefully he'll get himself into a better routine soon and you can have your sleep back, but don't beat yourself up about it

@PugInTheHouse another one here confirming you are definitely not alone! I expected some upheaval and adjustment but maybe naively I didn’t think it’d be this hard. Like @Sparkle79 pup consumes pretty much my every thought - I don’t think DH and I have had a non dog related conversation since November. I never feel relaxed, even if she’s asleep I’m creeping around or hiding in my bedroom like a bloody teenager so I don’t wake her up!

She has good moments but it really feels like one step forward and five steps back a lot of the time. She woke us at 3am last night for the first time in weeks (we have been lucky with her sleeping at night) - took her out to the toilet and she did a really runny poo. She seems absolutely fine in herself and the vets have just said to keep an eye on her but now I’m going to spend all day worrying about her

Looking forward to when she’s just part of the furniture but it’s hard when you think that could be another year away

@PugInTheHouse Given his age, could he be hitting adolescence? I don't know anything about pugs but I think smaller breeds hit it earlier? That could be why you feel like he's regressing and everything's getting worse. Definitely look into daycare, you're paying them so they have to put up with the peeing etc! If you find a good one they don't judge, they just support. I don't know what I'd have done without our daycare. Just wondering, could the earlier starts have something to do with lighter mornings/dawn chorus or anything like that?

@C4itl yes he is, I think I need to go to 2 meals, I am just really unsure how to manage snacks in between really, I never quite know how much he should have snack wise. He will always go after his last meal at 6, it seems to make no difference to his sleeping if he poos at 630 or 830 though, I really think he could do with another poo before bed. We take him out several times during the evening, we tried walking him about 8pm once, he didn't poo but was so hyper after it was a nightmare, he ended up running around and drinking loads (and therefore weeing loads lol). As he is in the crate he won't poo in it but will cry to be let out, when he wants to get up he scrapes and bites the crate, we only get him up once he is waiting nicely.

What is your feeding schedule?

Thanks @SpreadHummusNotHate and everyone, you have all made me feel so much better. It is so overwhelming. I haven't cried properly since the first week we went into lockdown last March, then a few tears embarrasingly on a work zoom when we went into tier 4 just before xmas. I was probably due a good sob haha!

@ashmts I will have to look into the adolescence thing, he has just starting marking when we go out, also humping the air/sofa when he chews his toy giraffe I am not sure what the signs are TBH.

@PugInTheHouse

8am - Some dry food mixed with half of his portion of Butternut Box (it's all weighed out for him so I just guess around half of the pack)

12-1pm - A snack such as a chew, I've been buying the lamb spaghetti from JR Pet Products which he loves

4:30-5pm - More dry food mixed with his second half of the Butternut Box

Sometimes around 7pm he'll have some treats if we're doing training but a lot of the time he's asleep so he doesn't get anything else other than what I've said above, maybe a few treats on a walk if we're doing recall. So I'd say also around a handful of training treats (also from JR Pet Products) a day.

Thanks @C4itl thats really helpful. We are very cautious about over feeding him due to his breed, he gets quite a few training treats but they are about 1 cal each as we cut them up but he is on 120g of Wainwrights dry food (sometimes one of the meals is wet food but we measure a 3rd of his allowance of that). He has been on the same amount for ages but he doesn't seem to be starving. He has a dental chew mid morning, then peanut butter on lickimat when we eat in the evening. Less than a teaspoon spread thinly though. I will take a look at butternut box.

Oh no, complain away! I know you’re having a toilet training regression stage at the moment at that must be very difficult. It’s far more all consuming that’s I ever imagined and I guess you feel the same.

I have a massive problem with feeling sorry for myself- it wasn’t my idea to get a dog and so I feel very grumpy when I left doing all the early mornings (teens have school and Dh is a shift worker). I need to get over that because I did agree to getting him.

@PugInTheHouse butternutbox.com/Caitlin73 if you want to use the code to get 50% off, it's fresh food rather than wet so it's human grade meat and veg, I'm sure it says on the website or in the leaflet they send that you could eat it if you want to, although I haven't tried it myself

It can be quite expensive though, so it might just be worth looking on www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk for something that has a good rating for a cheaper price. I definitely think it's made a difference to how much he poos and they're a lot less runny (TMI?)

I'm the same with C4pup with him being a mini dachshund re the weight concerns

@C4itl I think I will give it a go and just mix in a bit of his current dry food. He takes much longer to eat wet food which is definitely a good thing!