Puppy Survival Thread - January - February

[C4itl]

Continuing on the thread from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4105422-Puppy-Survival-Thread-December?pg=28 before we hit the message limit

@WeeM YES! Every time. He has a few places that he's decided to dig and then he gets the zoomies and goes mental. If he starts to dig lots or is eating something he shouldn't then the only way I can get him in is blowing a dog whistle which he knows means he gets a piece of cheese.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat it's so hard and the tiredness doesn't help OH went to work the other day and although it was daunting being on my own, I didn't realise how calm it had been until he got home from work and within 10 minutes of him being home had already shouted "no, off and leave" at the puppy about 5 times. He was really excited to see OH so he was being a bit zoomie and I think he'd brought new smells home so he was trying to eat his shoes, bag and coat. My "positive" solution would have been to take them all off and put them in the cupboard but OH insisted that "he needs to learn to leave things alone" so just kept shouting no, leave off etc. So frustrating. All if our argument ms are about the puppy these days. No answer for you sorry, just solidarity.

@Frenchfancy
"I think you might have a small DH problem though. In terms of the crate do you need him to go in it? Are their times when he needs to be locked away?"

I ready this as "does DH need to be locked away in his crate sometimes?" I think you might have found the solution to all our DH problems there

Haha to be fair to DH he does mean it kindly, he hates seeing me unhappy and I’ve really struggled with GeorgiePups illness and diagnosis. But the tiredness is a killer. I struggle with anxiety anyway and need to perhaps revisit some past techniques which have helped.

Regards to the crate, he doesn’t use it at all during the day, we’re fine with that. He has a donut bed. It even rarely sleeps in that preferring to lie on the floor in everyone’s way

Nighttime he’s been fine in the crate until this week and we’re happy to move on to the next stage but unsure at what that is. I understand those who prefer not to crate but we chose to whilst he was small, knowing as he got older we would transition. I just don’t know how.... The house is semi opened plan but he’s still prone to the odd chewing furniture moment so I’m nervous about leaving him loose!

Tiredness is always a killer. We have a pen for petal which is a complete eyesore but also a massive help. She settles on her bed in there well-much better than in the crate (which we’ve packed away now!)

I met my friend yesterday who is getting a puppy from a breeder /trainer and apparently it comes ready trained -no biting, walking nicely on the lead etc. and the trainer works with the owners for the first few weeks too. She said the trainer was good but very strict. I’m conflicted between being a bit dubious about the ready trained aspect (especially once it gets into a busy house) and being jealous and feeling a bit of a failure!

finally joining the thread. Winston has been with us for two and a half weeks now. Hes settled well and happy to go in his crate when we need him to but mostly sleeps on the sofa or in the cats bed. Toilet training has been harder than i'd hoped but he is having fewer accidents so progress is being made. photo for puppy tax

I’m having real issues with leash walking. He’s crying a lot on walks and I don’t know if that’s because we live near a busy street so the sound of traffic? He’s also now more reactive with other people and dogs when he sees them. Pulling massively and whining /barking to go up to them and say hi.

No idea what to do!

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat you're dealing with a lot of challenges, men love to just get on with things and not worry about it but I can't do that. The tiredness won't be helping. I don't know your situation but can DH plan to get up overnight a couple of nights and give you a couple of unbroken nights sleep? That might be a start.

@Petalpup that sounds a bit suspicious. What age are these magical puppies? Either they won't be fully trained (impossible by a young age, particularly recall and leadwalking I'd guess) or the trainer will be using methods I'd class as cruel just to get quick results. I could be wrong. Also as hard as the first month was, I've really enjoyed training our puppy. It's been such a good bonding experience. I wouldn't be jealous, sounds a bit off to me. Unless the breeder just meant they've started the training process and your friend has got the wrong end of the stick.

@imovethestarsforno1 He's lovely!

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I think many of us are having similar DH issues, since I lost the plot last week DH is much better. He now realises that it is 24/7 for me so we have a new routine as I was really struggling.

Since moving to 2 meals and last meal at 5pm pugpup is now not waking till 620/630, going to bed earlier also 8/830 (with just a wee at 1030) which means all 4 of us can sit and watch tv without the stress of whether he needs a wee (as evening when we're all there is when he just wees on the kitchen floor). So as 630 is reasonable time in the week to get up DH is getting dressed quick, taking pugpup down for a wee/poo and staying downstairs with him, pup generally sits on the back of the sofa (no idea why) and has a snooze for an hour. DH then takes him for a quick walk at 730 which is when I get up and I can get ready in peace. Breakfast at 8am and then he will potter for a bit and sleep once they leave for work/school till about 1030/11.

Just having that extra support in the morning makes the world of difference.

@WeeM yes we tried that too but because we taught him 'leave it' first by putting a treat on the floor between his legs he thinks we are asking him to do that, when asked to leave a treat he has usually been asked to sit first and he does this hilarious little jump backwards onto all fours to show us he's not touching the treat, unfortunately not helpful with teaching him to lay down. The trainer said the method with getting them under your leg usually works if the other way doesn't but he just doesn't want to (I don't think she believed me till she tried it).

Re the not coming in from the garden, he never used to want to stay out on his own but recently has done this more, usually between 630 and 8pm when we are trying to sort dinner or relax a bit. At first we enticed him in with food but he soon started going out just to come back in for a treat haha. Sometimes if I shut the door and walk away he'll follow, other times more tricky but I try and make it exciting and jog towards the door so he follows. Luckily for night time wee we have woken him so he's happy to just get back in.

@Petalpup that definitely sounds odd to me. How old is the pup? It can't possibly be properly trained lead walking as it couldn't go out properly. Huge difference to lead walking indoors and outside with lots of distractions. I can get pugpup to do allsorts indoors that just goes out the window when outside. Also the biting, pugpup didn't really bite at first, it got worse with age so unless the pup is 13/14 weeks already I don't think it's really possible. The only thing our breeder had started was with puppy pads so they were used to those but that was it, mostly by 8 weeks I would expect the only things they learn are off their mum/litter mates.

Alfie just goes out to sit at our gate and bark at people walking past, drives us mental. Or he digs. So we’ve put our wheelie bins on the places he digs and he goes out on lead. Which is fun as he takes twice as long.
Trying a better ‘busy’ treat though but fed up of standing in the garden like a tool with him saying busy and him looking at me like I’ve lost it. The minute he barks we go inside.

@imovethestarsforno1 my boy isn’t a fan of traffic. Could be it’s just over arousal for him walking on busy streets. We sat in the Carpark of a supermarket (he was in the boot - door open) and then on a quiet street and just fed alfs and he sat and watched the cars etc - so he remembers traffic = food it takes a bit of time, we did same in the car as he didn’t like that or the hoover. He’s much much better but not keen on a bus. Avoid busy roads if you can - hard if you’re in a busy area. We are on a main road and bus route but there’s a lane behind the house I use instead.

Ps puppy is gorgeous they grow so fast Alfie is massive now I miss my tiny cute boy

Also @petalpup the other thing the trainer told me is that so often people remember things wrong especially re the early days or they just think the dogs are better trained than they actually are. She said she has so many dogs she walks 9 months onwards whose recall are not very good at all but the owners have let them offlead from really young without actually training them properly.

I also have several friends whose pups were apparently toilet trained from day 1 (not you took them outside every half hour so they didn't wee indoors). To me toilet trained means they are able to ask to go if they need to, not just catch all the wee outdoors till they are old enough to hold it till they go on a walk.

A few people have made me feel like a failure with the training (esp the leaving him) but all pups are different and with lockdown it's definitely difficult. The trainer said that at 4/5 months to have so many commands taught so well is really good, everyone on this thread has achieved so much but I do think people with older dogs remember that by 3 months their pups were fully trained with perfect lead walking and recall which makes us feel so disheartened.

I’m a little taken aback at the comment that crating is lazy. I feel anything but lazy at the moment but accept I’m feeling sensitive.

GeorgiePup is still on 4 meals a day at the moment due to needing meds with food, this plan is agreed with the vet. His levels still aren’t stable so he is having blood tests every 10 days, plus I’m doing the sessions with the trainer as we agreed this would build my confidence. He has two walks a day. I’m a childminder and have 3 under 5s here every day (they are just eating breakfast now!) plus homeschooling my own 3 children.

He’s housetrained, doesn’t jump up, gentle around the children, naps well in the day etc etc. It’s just night times I’m struggling with and the tiredness. Sorry if that sounds lazy, I don’t know what else to do that’s why I asked for advice.

@ashmts yes for ‘strict’ i also suspect some would say cruel. Will be 8 weeks when they get her. I’ll report back

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat crating is definitely not lazy, it's a proven technique, loads of research about it. It is definitely a good thing for the puppies, it provides a safe space for them. When pugpup 'steals' something he shouldn't he heads straight into his crate to sit with the item. Also when he's really tired he will wander off into it himself.

I guess it is lazy if people just stick dogs in there at the detriment of other training. For instance when the door goes I guess it would be easier to stick pup in the crate every time rather than teaching them to sit and wait at a suitable place away from the front door, same when cooking etc, but if safer for the pup then it is a good thing to use of course.

My trainer said yesterday that any time I need a time out (after I told her about me getting overwhelmed last week) to pop him in there with his lickimat and go and sit somewhere else. For us it also keeps him safe from the cats (and vice versa) if I am not in the room.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I agree with talking to DH about some time for you to have unbroken sleep at night, sometimes just one night every few days helps massively.

New thread as we are about to run out on here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4181751-Puppy-Survival-Thread-March-April

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat Just wanted to say well done on coping with the huge challenges you have faced If it helps my pup who is coming up to nine months still has the occasional week where she will wake me in the night - there doesn't seem to be a pattern. She goes back to sleep but I don't sleep well in normal times so I'm up for the day then - not good at 2:30 am. Fingers crossed it will pass - can you go to bed earlier yourself at the moment while this stage is ongoing

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I have heard the "lazy" comment in the past and tbh I don't care if it is lazy... If we didn't use a crate there is no way I could get Sparklepup to sleep and he would be bitey and horrid. If that means I'm lazy then that's fine. At least I'm lazy and semi-sane

But for the record I 100% don't think it's lazy. As @PugInTheHouse says, maybe it is if you're not doing any training and just crating all day, but I do plenty of training, enrichment, play etc etc. Every waking minute is spent online looking for tips and ideas so like you I feel far from lazy

And @Petalpup that does sound like a dream puppy but to good to be true I think and who's to say pup won't change their behaviour as they hit the toddler / teenage stage?

[quote Petalpup]@ashmts yes for ‘strict’ i also suspect some would say cruel. Will be 8 weeks when they get her. I’ll report back[/quote]
Yeah please let us know. I'm also interested to know how your friend will cope if they're expecting this perfect pup and a bitey monster (aka normal puppy) arrives. Could be very difficult.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat sending solidarity. Pup has nearly broken me numerous times, and although my partner is patient and amazing when I am struggling, he's been getting angry with pup in a way I don't like. I sent him (partner) to bed last night as he was losing his rag with hyper pup. Having said that he is brilliant with him most of the time and stepped up to rush him to emergency vet and he loves him so much.

@WeeM we use a long line for toilet trips as I can never get Dpup in. Only if I know I cam be out for ages (and will still probably regret it!) do I let him out without a long line. Or if I know I'll have something to tempt him in, like his dinner, or one of the kids!

@Georgie you have my sympathies. Me and my DH have had more 'harsh words' to eachother in this puppy experience than both human baby experiences put together!! Sleep makes a lot seem easier, so see if your DH can give you a lie-in.

A pre-trained puppy sounds amazing! Let me know if it works and I'll be signing up!

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I did not mean to imply that you were lazy. I said that they can make SOME people lazy about teaching manners. Ie that crates are not all good and if pup is no longer happy in a crate it is not the end of the world. I think there is another thread on MN about them.