Same dog has attacked mine twice - WWYd

[HappyThursdays]

First time, my puppy was on his lead when the Labrador literally came out of nowhere and jumped on him aggressively and held him down. Puppy screamed but luckily because he was on the lead, I could drag him up and had to wrestle him off the dog. He was only about 13/14 weeks at the time and was really upset but luckily no skin broken. I was in shock and the owner said sorry but just wandered off.

I subsequently found out from others that it's well known that this Labrador has problems with male puppies.

Just went on my walk this morning, puppy was off lead and I saw a Labrador in the distance, couldn't be sure it was this one, but to be careful I called him back and put him on the lead.

Within a few seconds, this Labrador was running full speed at us and immediately pounced on the puppy and held him down by the back legs. Pup has a harness on him and I know they say you shouldn't pick them up but it was the only way to get him out of his jaws. The owner stood by and did nothing.

This time I really lost my shit and shouted at him and refused to accept his apology. I said if he knows his dog has a problem he must either be on lead or called back to be on lead when other dogs are around. He honestly couldn't have been less bothered, did say sorry but I said it wasn't enough and he strolled off.

I now know where he lives. Would you report this and where do you report it to?

I don't think any owner can complain if their dog is attacking either you or their pet if you use spray on them.

That’s the thing though, isn’t it? These dog owners say that the dog is “only playing” or they get shirty because I’m too precious. For the record, my little dog loves nothing more than chasing, and being chased, around the woods with friendly dogs and she will happily take on a labrador. It’s the times when some (and I’ve put that in bold as these are a minority) dogs go for the neck and the other owners do nothing about it

Anyway, off to Amazon.

This is incredibly naive. It's not only entire males who pick up the scent of a bitch in season. Any male dog will pick up the scent and it's not always possible to control them - dogs have escaped houses and dug under fences - even injured themselves to get to a bitch in heat.

So in a busy city park, surrounded by roads and homes that contain dogs on the other side of those roads you'd be wise to keep your entire dog on a lead at all times. There could be an in season dog in a home or garden there. Fwiw these dogs in question approach dogs on leads regardless of any other circumstances (male/female/in season/not) the first time it was bounding all over my controlled (not in season) small dog she chuckled and said oh sorry he likes harassing dogs on leads. Now THAT is going to get her dog hurt eventually as lead reactivity is common. I'm not parading my dog around or even deliberately walking her, just collecting my dc which I can't just not do for up to a month. Just this week I had to pick her up while this dog was bounding all over me jumping up to get her. The season made little difference tbh. It's always a bloody nuisance Dogs in this park at school pick up time should all be restrained. I really don't think in the unreasonable one.

My puppy was attacked at 13 weeks old and suffered a broken leg as a result. I reported it to the police - please make sure you report it.

Fwiw these dogs in question approach dogs on leads regardless of any other circumstances (male/female/in season/not) the first time it was bounding all over my controlled (not in season) small dog she chuckled and said oh sorry he likes harassing dogs on leads. Now THAT is going to get her dog hurt eventually as lead reactivity is common. I'm not parading my dog around or even deliberately walking her, just collecting my dc which I can't just not do for up to a month. Just this week I had to pick her up while this dog was bounding all over me jumping up to get her. The season made little difference tbh. It's always a bloody nuisance Dogs in this park at school pick up time should all be restrained. I really don't think in the unreasonable one.

I absolutely agree with your points about dogs staying on leads in those situations, but I also think it's irresponsible to walk an in-season bitch in busy areas - it's just not safe for her, and ultimately she'll be the one that suffers.

@vanillandhoney

If you can't manage that, get your bitch neutered for her own safety as much as anything else. Unless you're a professional breeder, there is no reason to keep your bitch un-spayed.

This. Beggars belief why owners don't.

If you can't manage that, get your bitch neutered for her own safety as much as anything else. Unless you're a professional breeder, there is no reason to keep your bitch un-spayed.

This. Beggars belief why owners don't.

Well she's far from the only puppy that ended up having a season during the pandemic while vets were still offering emergency treatment only or catching up their backlog. And fwiw the vet thought it probably worked in her best interests anyway being small and fairly immature at the time. Not that it's any of your business if I wanted to set up a one dog puppy farm in my back room! Also not only 'professional breeders' are permitted to breed their dogs, sometimes they are the worst. Mine came from a farmer friend who bred one litter from their beloved terrier with a carefully selected stud. as they wanted to continue the line and rehomed all the rest with friends. I'd rather that than a dog from a glorified puppy farm like many pro breeders are

@midnightstar66

If you can't manage that, get your bitch neutered for her own safety as much as anything else. Unless you're a professional breeder, there is no reason to keep your bitch un-spayed.

This. Beggars belief why owners don't.

Well she's far from the only puppy that ended up having a season during the pandemic while vets were still offering emergency treatment only or catching up their backlog. And fwiw the vet thought it probably worked in her best interests anyway being small and fairly immature at the time. Not that it's any of your business if I wanted to set up a one dog puppy farm in my back room! Also not only 'professional breeders' are permitted to breed their dogs, sometimes they are the worst. Mine came from a farmer friend who bred one litter from their beloved terrier with a carefully selected stud. as they wanted to continue the line and rehomed all the rest with friends. I'd rather that than a dog from a glorified puppy farm like many pro breeders are

I'm not getting into a debate about professional breeding.

Bitches should be spayed for health reasons. The longer you leave them un-spayed, the higher their risk of pyometra and ovarian cancer.

I used to walk in the same place as a dog like this. It attacked my various dogs a few times.

It bit me when I pulled it off and drew blood. It's owner couldn't have cared less. It ignored her.

It went for my elderly dog another time, so I kicked it and said "no". It actually stopped and listened. Used to run up to us showing it's teeth.

It bit the post man too as it lived in the cul de sac opposite me. And chased kids on their bikes trying to bite them.

In the end me and the owner had an almighty row when it went for my old dog again and I had my staffy x on the lead who wanted to defend his pack member and I told her she had 20 seconds to get her dog off mine, or I'd let him off the lead and he'd potentially hurt her dog. Not my finest moment but I'd had enough by this point.

She screamed at me for having a dangerous dog 🙄 one that's never bitten anyone or anything. And she never walked there again.

We had the same with our labrador when he was a pup. Attacked three times by the same lab (once they had a JRT there who also joined in).

3rd time was the final straw and dh got very protective of his puppy and had quite an aggressive confrontation (I wasn't there, but was told no actual physical contact) with the owner, and we never saw them again. Not sure if they started walking elsewhere to avoid dh or it eventually clicked their dog was a problem.

I don't recommend that approach, but do not hesitate to let the other owner know they are out of order. I also don't recommend the spray, as the other dog may see that as an attack and direct their aggression to you.

When you do report to warden/police, tell them the dog directly threatened/snapped at you and you were in fear of/were close to being bitten too, they will take that more seriously than dog on dog aggression.

@midnightstar66

I've never actually head of a dog warden (as in locally, I've heard the term obviously) I don't know if it's something that exists here (Scotland) must look into it.

Yes they exist in most councils in Scotland.

Definitely report it the dog warden will discuss it with them probably issue them with a letter about being on lead and in control. If repeated offences they have the power to seize the dog.

I'm not getting into a debate about professional breeding.

Yet your happy to get in to a debate about the timing of spaying? Something even the veterinary world far from agrees on or follows a one size fits all model. As I said my pups first season was down to circumstance but my trusted vet advises timings on a case by case individual basis and felt my dog will benefit from that bit more time to physically and mentally mature and would have advised that for her anyway.

@midnightstar66

I'm not getting into a debate about professional breeding.

Yet your happy to get in to a debate about the timing of spaying? Something even the veterinary world far from agrees on or follows a one size fits all model. As I said my pups first season was down to circumstance but my trusted vet advises timings on a case by case individual basis and felt my dog will benefit from that bit more time to physically and mentally mature and would have advised that for her anyway.

All I said was bitches should be spayed sooner rather than later for health reasons. I stand by that. Vets may disagree on it, but that doesn't mean nobody is allowed an opinion.

If your bitch can't be spayed for whatever reason - age, lockdown, health conditions - then as the owner, it's your responsibility to keep her safe, and I don't believe walking her in busy areas is doing that.

Unfortunately, having an un-spayed bitch can be quite problematic - it's a big reason why we went for a dog. I didn't want to deal with the hassle of bleeding, seasons, phantom pregnancy and walking my dog at 5am to avoid hassle from male dogs.

If a dog is repeatedly causing problems and hassling your dog, then by all means report them to the dog warden or the council.

I wish all owners would keep their dogs and bitches on a lead at all times in public places. Many are afraid of dogs and with good reason when off lead dogs run in and jump up at people often knocking toddlers over. Owners saying their dog is just being friendly does not help. They are being antisocial jumping up at people. I blame the owners not the dogs who are untrained. I have 2 small/medium bitches and they are walked on leads all of the time and when on heat we walk them and throw toys for them to fetch and drop in our own garden. When on heat they can't go out of our garden but it is a large garden they can run in. All dogs out of control should be reported to dog warden through council and if they bite a person or seriously harm another dog the police should also be called. Take a photo of any vicious dogs. Walk with a spray or large stick. Don't be afraid to use for self protection or protecting your own dog/bitch. I have been out before with my 2 bitches. I always carry a large stick. I saw a child about 11 with a small dog on a lead just walking along when a large dog bounded up and went for it, shaking it. No owner of large dog in sight. Small dog yelping and being shook about, child shouting and screaming, so I hit large dog with my stick on its nose until it stopped and dropped little dog. Big fog then turned and growled at me. Child picked up little dog that was bleeding and carried it off. I told child to get little dog to vet asap. Finally the owner of the large dog appeared and when I told this woman her dog had just attacked a little dog and it looked badly hurt she just said her boy would not do that and walked off, dog still not on lead. If I had not been there either the child would have tried to help her little dog and got bitten or the big dog would have killed the little dog. I reported incident but did not think to take little dogs name/address nor knew name of owner of large do of. It had blood all over its mouth yet owner denied any problem with its behaviour. I was disgusted and my 2 girls barked and danced about on their leads the whole time. As an adult I was scared.

There are medical pros and cons to spaying bitches, regardless of breeding intent. Probably a few more pros than cons but I would not be surprised to see the same revision of 'one-size-fits-all' blanket advice on bitches as the last 5-10 years has seen on dogs neutering.

Certainly, if popularity of scientific research is anything to go by, this topic is starting to attract the same level of scrutiny as neutering dogs did a few years back.

The degree to which neutering or spaying is seen as the morally right decision has a lot to do with which country you happen to live in. With some countries taking a fairly hard line than you should neuter/spay very early and that this is the 'morally right' decison. Others have only just started to allow the neutering/spaying of otherwise healthy animals at all, typically taking the view that the moral thing is to leave the animals with the hormones they were meant to have (often these countries do not have the stray/abandoned dog problem you might expect from such a policy). The UK is somewhere in the middle.

Anyway, not trying to get into the argument because I have no skin either way. Just thought I'd share.

What are the medical cons to spaying a bitch @YourNutsMeLord?

Mainly around increased risks of urinary incontinence, weight management, some cancers, hip displaysia and perhaps other joint issues.

As with everything, the evidence on causal links (vs correlation) are not totally clear - so all things to be considered. e.g. If I had a large breed dog, prone to joint issues anyway, I might wait longer/not spay at all vs a smaller breed for which this is less of a concern. Of course, that too would have to be considered along with my willingness and ability to prevent unwanted pregancy - all life is a trade off

And, obviously, the risk of anaesthetic which, though very low, is there.

None of that should be read as me saying spaying is a bad thing. Just that life is never as clear cut as we humans would like.

Spaying can cause urinary incontinence, an increase in a number of other cancers, some musculoskeletal issues, all mostly outweighed by the pros but as said it needs to be a case by case basis if the individual dog might have a higher risk for one reason or another and sometimes delaying can be beneficial (as was advised with my dog). As I said my vet already uses a case by case approach but as one of the top vets in a world leading teaching practice in a vet school he is expected to be a bit ahead of the game. I know him as a colleague as well as a professional (not that my experience is anything to do with dogs, they are very different to equines, occasionally it overlaps though which is why I've worked with him) but it means I find it easy to understand his explanations and what I read when I look in to it myself. I've not sentenced my dog to death because she's had a season, it's very likely done her a lot of good. Pyometria in a dog under one is highly rare.

Well, of course Pyometra in a dog under 1 is rare - it the recurrence of seasons that increases the risks of it. As the bitch gets older, the risk grows.

Well, of course Pyometra in a dog under 1 is rare - it the recurrence of seasons that increases the risks of it. As the bitch gets older, the risk grows.

No one is arguing with that . I was responding to the horror that my 9 month old puppy had had a season

@midnightstar66

Well, of course Pyometra in a dog under 1 is rare - it the recurrence of seasons that increases the risks of it. As the bitch gets older, the risk grows.

No one is arguing with that . I was responding to the horror that my 9 month old puppy had had a season

No, the horror was relating to you taking your in season bitch out on a walk where there would be other dogs, not only thinking it was perfectly ok, but moaning about other entire dogs getting excited

I didn't take her for a walk, I popped to collect my dc. And I wasn't moaning about the dogs getting excited, I was moaning that they are continually allowed to roam, not even watched by their owners and approach controlled on lead dogs. As I said the season was a red herring really seeing it happens all the time. No one was at risk, my dog is smaller than many cats, I can pop her under my arm, I had to do that last week long after her season had finished, I'm more than capable of keeping her safe from these dogs - but I shouldn't have to. Not in those circumstances. They should be on their lead or at least closely watched and removed if they look like they might be a lot to become a nuisance!

@HappyThursdays

Was the lab biting your puppy?

@Honeyhoops you know it's something I thought about afterwards. He had my puppy's hind leg in his jaw and had clamped down in a way, using his body weight, that meant puppy couldn't move. It's what he did the first time too. But he uses his whole body and he is a big and heavy lab.

But he didn't break the skin. I don't know if that is because I was there and immediately grabbed him away or whether his intention was to dominate the puppy and show he was boss (as apparently his issue is only with male puppies not female).

she was harassed incessantly by entire dogs while in season (on her lead at all times).

I didn't take her for a walk, I popped to collect my dc.

Which is it? I’m confused.

@NonyaBizniz

she was harassed incessantly by entire dogs while in season (on her lead at all times).

I didn't take her for a walk, I popped to collect my dc.

Which is it? I’m confused.

Quite.