Same dog has attacked mine twice - WWYd

[HappyThursdays]

First time, my puppy was on his lead when the Labrador literally came out of nowhere and jumped on him aggressively and held him down. Puppy screamed but luckily because he was on the lead, I could drag him up and had to wrestle him off the dog. He was only about 13/14 weeks at the time and was really upset but luckily no skin broken. I was in shock and the owner said sorry but just wandered off.

I subsequently found out from others that it's well known that this Labrador has problems with male puppies.

Just went on my walk this morning, puppy was off lead and I saw a Labrador in the distance, couldn't be sure it was this one, but to be careful I called him back and put him on the lead.

Within a few seconds, this Labrador was running full speed at us and immediately pounced on the puppy and held him down by the back legs. Pup has a harness on him and I know they say you shouldn't pick them up but it was the only way to get him out of his jaws. The owner stood by and did nothing.

This time I really lost my shit and shouted at him and refused to accept his apology. I said if he knows his dog has a problem he must either be on lead or called back to be on lead when other dogs are around. He honestly couldn't have been less bothered, did say sorry but I said it wasn't enough and he strolled off.

I now know where he lives. Would you report this and where do you report it to?

Why did a pp take your in season dog out where other dogs are? Being on lead is no excuse as it can cause serious fights between other dogs, it's not the fault of those dogs at all. Should be spayed when old enough anyway.
I’ve seen it suggested so very many times on here to walk in season dogs on leads and I’m always aghast so I’m not necessarily surprised that poster thought it was an okay thing to do.

But tbh I think it just goes to show the problem with discussions about dogs as what is acceptable to one is not acceptable to another, it’s easy to see how fights occur (between people I mean) and dog threads tend to spiral out of hand so rapidly

Why did a pp take your in season dog out where other dogs are? Being on lead is no excuse as it can cause serious fights between other dogs, it's not the fault of those dogs at all. Should be spayed when old enough anyway.

No it's not the fault of the entire dogs but an entire adult male should be on a lead or at least closely supervised. Especially around a children's play area which is where that was. Roaming adult intact males cause fights too. My dog is small, I can pick her up if there is a problem so I'm not going to keep her inside for up to a month just because people can't be arsed to supervise their own pet. I'll take her out on her lead and be extra vigilant. Its absolutely none of your business when/if I spay my pet. Why aren't you demanding those adult male dogs are spayed rather than my puppy?

That's really silly behaviour @midnightstar66

You're putting your bitch and yourself at risk

Expecting male dogs to control themselves around an in-season bitch is incredibly unreasonable.

I dot expect them to control themselves, I expect the owners to control them. They should have their entire males on a lead in a city park. My day which involves finish work, pick up dog, pick up dc from school means she needs to come there's not really an alternative. I have a tiny window. Anyway she's no longer in season and that bloody dog is still uncontrolled and still harassing us and tbf did before, the season was a red herring anyway.

So entire males can’t enjoy off lead freedom now?
Oh, this sounds like another thread going currently... 🤦🏻‍♀️

Pretty much no entire male will be able control themselves about in season females and the assumption of any entire male owner will be that no one would be irresponsible enough to walk an in season bitch!
It’s extremely unreasonable and dangerous to walk an in season female in popular areas or at times where other dogs will be or imo at all!

midnightstar my make dog is neutered and I agree that most dogs should be neutered/spayed and kept under control.
However, you are putting yourself and your dog (and your dc) at risk if you walk an in season bitch in an area where there might be other dogs. It won’t be your fault if a dog/person gets hurt but that won’t be much consolation if it’s you or your child or dog

I dot expect them to control themselves, I expect the owners to control them
They often can’t.
The instinct overrides, hence why you get males being hit by cars and getting lost and the like.

They should have their entire males on a lead in a city park
But they wouldn’t expect an in season bitch to be there!

My day which involves finish work, pick up dog, pick up dc from school means she needs to come there's not really an alternative. I have a tiny window
Unfortunate but not the fault of the owner of an entire dog.
She won’t die from not being walked and can be spayed at maturity

Anyway she's no longer in season and that bloody dog is still uncontrolled and still harassing us and tbf did before, the season was a red herring anyway
More likely the dog remembers and will always make a beeline now for yours.
Unless you’ve seen him behaving the same way with others?

my make dog is neutered and I agree that most dogs should be neutered/spayed and kept under control
The advice is changing now.
While spaying is still recommended for females, neutering isn’t advised for nervous males (makes them worse) or large breed males (increases the risk of bone cancer).

I don't expect them to control themselves, I expect the owners to control them. They should have their entire males on a lead in a city park.

This is incredibly naive. It's not only entire males who pick up the scent of a bitch in season. Any male dog will pick up the scent and it's not always possible to control them - dogs have escaped houses and dug under fences - even injured themselves to get to a bitch in heat.

My day which involves finish work, pick up dog, pick up dc from school means she needs to come there's not really an alternative. I have a tiny window.

Of course there's an alternative. You get up early in the morning and walk your dog, you go out late at night, or you pay for a dog walker to take your bitch somewhere safe and isolated to get her walk. That's precisely why we chose to get a male dog, because we didn't have inclination to deal with a bitch in season even once.

Anyway she's no longer in season and that bloody dog is still uncontrolled and still harassing us and tbf did before, the season was a red herring anyway.

The dog may be a nuisance, but that doesn't mean you're entitled to walk your bitch in heat wherever you fancy, while expecting male dogs to ignore her. It's in their DNA. You can't train a dog to ignore a bitch in heat - it's just not possible.

If you own a bitch in season, it's your responsibility to walk her safely - which normally means getting up at stupid o'clock in the morning or stupidly late at night. Yes, it's a pain, but that's what you sign up for when you get a female dog and don't spay it. Get her spayed.

swaddle that’s why I said most - I appreciate it’s not the same in every case.

I was going to say get a small can of pet corrector or something. Hopefully if you aim it at the other dog yours won't be scared of it.

My 12 year old golden retriever can be reactive and it's because he has been attacked. Some male dogs seem to dislike him, he must give off some kind of vibe. He's a confident dog and is generally OK on walks, but if another dog squares up to him or has a go he is no shrinking violet. He has never bitten another dog or anything but he wont hesitate to give them a verbal bollocking. I think that's why some have attacked him, because he's not particularly submissive so they try and square up first. We also seem to have a lot of small dogs who think they are big dogs here!

Reactive dogs are hard work, definitely don't be afraid to step in and protect your dog. The other owner needs to control their's. My younger golden is 4 and there were two terriers that came roaring towards us off lead when she was onlead. Being onlead meant she was limited as to what she could do, and I had no worries that they would hurt her so I let her off. The terriers were scared shitless when she bounded towards them and ran away with their tails between their legs! If I'm confronted with shitty behaved dogs off lead I will let mine off so they've got the space to react/ get away. Leads can make them anxious and feel trapped, but I fully appreciate you wouldn't do this with a young or anxious dog. I've also got a small breed rescue and I'd never do it with her, as wrong as it is I'd pick her up as it would be the best solution for her.

And it works both ways my poor confused boy has been harassed by bitches in heat before.

Firstly, thank you to the OP for starting this thread. I regularly walk my poodle-cross dog in an official off-lead wooded area and she is constantly harassed by the same Gordon Setter who singles her out and goes after her. The owner has 3 Gordon Setters to control but this particular one is a law unto itself. The citronella spray sounds fantastic but is it entirely legal and can I be accused of anything (harassment, endangerment?) by a disgruntled owner?

My pup has started to become a bit reactive after having been socialised so well as she was harassed incessantly by entire dogs while in season (on her lead at all times)
People are saying she should not have been taken out. Fine on a lead - they still need exercise! If people have male dogs that are likely to go after females then they need to be on a lead at all times too - then it wouldn't be a problem.

Secondly, my dog came into heat over the summer and we kept her in the garden. I once tried to walk her round the village on her lead but we passed a house and the resident dog was hurling itself at the fence trying to get out. I felt very guilty as it was clearly my fault that I put another dog into this position so we didn’t go for another walk again for a week. To deliberately walk an iin-season bitch in a public area and expect other dog owners to control their dogs is a bit off, actually.

@Hoppinggreen

And it works both ways my poor confused boy has been harassed by bitches in heat before.

This made me laugh! My own dog was once propositioned by an in season JRT that had escaped her garden. He protested much as I dragged him home by the lead - not something I like doing normally but really little choice here as he desperately tried to get at her whilst she followed and flirted all the way home with us. I put him in the house and was then stuck with a randy terrier, not knowing where she'd come from.

I had to advertise on the local FB page: does anyone know this horny bitch?

He has neither the equipment nor inclination to do anything about horny bitches. When one reverses up to him he just looks at me as if to say “mum, what’s she doing?”

Ha ha! Mine was intact and young at the time - and VERY keen to give his 'equipment' a test drive

People are saying she should not have been taken out. Fine on a lead - they still need exercise!

Of course, but at appropriate times and in appropriate places. If you insist on taking your in-season bitch out in the middle of the day to a park, you are going to get harassed. It's extremely irresponsible (as an owner) to put your dog in that position, imo.

If people have male dogs that are likely to go after females then they need to be on a lead at all times too - then it wouldn't be a problem.

But ALL male dogs will go after bitches in heat - it's in their DNA. If you own a bitch and choose not to spay her, you need to live with the inconvenience of that. At the end of the day, it's your dog who will be harassed and potentially badly injured if you come across an entire male.

Walk them first thing in the morning or last thing at night, keep her at home, or pay for a walker to take them out somewhere isolated. Or, get your bitch spayed. There's no sensible reason not to spay a female dog.

As an illustration to the points above, some months ago we walked in our normal woods and, it just so happens, another owner and their in season bitch had been round the woods before us. Not a complaint, they must have been out at about 6am in a normally empty wood. They left as we arrived so the dog in heat was no longer there.

I STILL had to keep mine on the leash and straining all the time because he could smell that she had been there and went crazy. He is not a lead puller at all and mostly is off lead and plodding within a few metres of me at all times.

The change is behaviour was extreme and all the training in the world was pointless. He was deaf and blind to anything but that scent.

My next door neighbours have recently had a visit from the police, because their (completely out of control) German shepherd attacked the same dog twice, a few months apart. I guess the other owner called 101, and the police did follow it up, and they have a sort of behaviour order in place for yobbo dog now.

Definitely report to dog warden. He can be fined if it keeps happening. I have 2 labs and the male can't be trusted around other unneutered males so he is exercised on a long line. I dont remember the last time he was off lead because he just cannot be trusted. My female lab is good as gold, hardly ever wears her lead. She doesn't need it.

@Madbengalmum

I always carry corrector spray for off lead dogs. Spray goes along way and is citronella so they immediately back off, also good for separating dogs,but stops them getting too close too.Amazon petsafe sprayshield, brilliant stuff.

Does this work? Without harm? I am so sick of dogs, am getting to the point where I dislike them all because they are so fucking annoying.

@mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork

My dad taught me to always carry a stick but not necessarily to hit the other dog with (that would be a very last resort). The idea is to, as it approaches with jaws open to seize your dog, jam the stick across between its jaws so it bites the stick rather than your dog. In my experience, it worked most of the time and certainly gave the attacking dog a moment of shock to make it hesitate, while you whisk yours out of the way or pick it up. I also bellow at the attacking dog and get in front of my own dog (working on the theory that my healthcare is free and my dog's is blooming expensive, so I'd rather it was me that got bitten). If you do this with enough confidence, you can very often ward the dog off until the other owner (if a responsible one, ha ha) can grab their dog or even make it back off and go away.

I thought owning a dog was supposed to be enjoyable

@VanillaSugarCakes

Firstly, thank you to the OP for starting this thread. I regularly walk my poodle-cross dog in an official off-lead wooded area and she is constantly harassed by the same Gordon Setter who singles her out and goes after her. The owner has 3 Gordon Setters to control but this particular one is a law unto itself. The citronella spray sounds fantastic but is it entirely legal and can I be accused of anything (harassment, endangerment?) by a disgruntled owner?

I think it's a good idea. It's not so much the areas where there are lots of dogs and owners but as you say, woods or open fields where there are dogs off lead and not many people around.

I don't think any owner can complain if their dog is attacking either you or their pet if you use spray on them.