Advise on this mixed breed please..

[Hmmmmminteresting]

We have an online meeting tonight with a breeder who has some 2 week old pups that we are interested in.
Mum is a Shih Tzu x Bichon
Dad is a Shih Tzu x Poodle

They want £2000 per puppy. They look adorable but I am very nervous about the fact that both parents are cross breeds already and not the same cross breed.

Would you buy one of these?

I havent had a dog for 10 years and she was a pedigree Cavalier King Charles. I really want to get this right.

Thanks!

As I said very clearly I'm not worried about the tiny toy breed pup knocking over children @RunningFromInsanity
I'd be more concerned about boisterous children injuring a small pup.

But maybe your experience of toy breed puppy fractures is greater than mine 🤷‍♀️

A friend just paid £2300 for a pug x jack russel

Would that be called a 'Jug'?

@Veterinari

As I said very clearly I'm not worried about the tiny toy breed pup knocking over children *@RunningFromInsanity* I'd be more concerned about boisterous children injuring a small pup.

But maybe your experience of toy breed puppy fractures is greater than mine 🤷‍♀️

And like I clearly said, they aren’t particularly tiny or delicate breeds so it’s not a great concern IMO. As I said, if the OP was looking at Chih or Daxie then I might suggest they are a bit fragile for children. But Bichons are not tiny or delicate.

And you aren’t the only animal professional on MN so yes I do have experience with the issues of puppies+children.

None of them are tiny breeds or thin/fragile (ie Chih, Italian Greyhounds, Daxies etc)
Bichon's aren’t that small, Shih tzu are small but stocky etc
They don’t have the potential to knock over young children like boisterous Labradors for example
One of the ladies I see regularly when out walking my dog has a Shih tzu puppy.
He is the cutest little thing ever but seriously tiny.
I can well imagine him sustaining injury at the hands of particularly boisterous children tbh

But Bichons are not tiny or delicate
Also, DHs uncle had a bichon which we visited as an 8 week puppy.
Very tiny and very delicate!

If MN was real life, no one would have nice family pets as they would all still be on the 5 year waiting list for a pedigree champion pup hmm

This.

@RunningFromInsanity young bichons have tiny legs like birds. unfortunately my aunties bichon broke a leg just jumping off a low stool when she was around 12 weeks

@RunningFromInsanity

You seem to want to derail the OP by picking a fight over my professional experience. Your comments indicate a lack of understanding of the skeletal physiology of toy breeds so I'll leave it there as whatever your 'animal care expertise' is, it clearly doesn't relate to toy breed fracture pathology or risks

@MrsJunglelow

None of them are tiny breeds or thin/fragile (ie Chih, Italian Greyhounds, Daxies etc) Bichon's aren’t that small, Shih tzu are small but stocky etc They don’t have the potential to knock over young children like boisterous Labradors for example One of the ladies I see regularly when out walking my dog has a Shih tzu puppy. He is the cutest little thing ever but seriously tiny. I can well imagine him sustaining injury at the hands of particularly boisterous children tbh

Pretty much all puppies are small and breakable.

Shih Tzu are probably the shortest breed out of them but fairly stocky. I would say a fully grown Shih Tzu/Toy Poodle/Bichon mix would be about a foot high and 10kg.

why would it suddenly be nearly twice the average weight of either breed?

[quote Veterinari]@RunningFromInsanity

You seem to want to derail the OP by picking a fight over my professional experience. Your comments indicate a lack of understanding of the skeletal physiology of toy breeds so I'll leave it there as whatever your 'animal care expertise' is, it clearly doesn't relate to toy breed fracture pathology or risks [/quote]
Not really, I’m just counter-arguing your argument. Which is pretty standard for a debate. I’m not sure why your opinion is the only opinion allowed. Do I need to put my qualifications in my username?

I’m not denying they are small breeds and therefore more susceptible to fractures. But they aren’t the smallest, and puppy fractures can happen to any breed.

And smaller breeds are safer to have around children, hence the original comment.

@righttothepoint

why would it suddenly be nearly twice the average weight of either breed?

Just seen that it’s Shih Tzu in both parents not Bichon like I thought, so perhaps slightly smaller than my estimate. But Bichons are about 2ft fall, not tiny.

Not really, I’m just counter-arguing your argument. Which is pretty standard for a debate. I’m not sure why your opinion is the only opinion allowed. Do I need to put my qualifications in my username?
I offered a statement based on years of experience, knowledge of toy breed skeletal physiology and professional veterinary training.
Interestingly it seems my professional opinion also chimes with the experiences of several other posters .

You've decided to counter my statement with your opinion. Good for you.

It's still not what the OP posted about though, so perhaps let's stick with that.

I’m not denying they are small breeds and therefore more susceptible to fractures. But they aren’t the smallest, and puppy fractures can happen to any breed.
I refer to my previous point about you not understanding toy breed skeletal pathology. It's not about the breed specifically.

Oh gosh, really. I was almost had then. I went in with a list of 14 questions that I wrote down based on this mornings feedback on here and she had really thorough answers for all. We were on the video call for almost an hour.
She didn't have the stud with her but it 100% was not the grandfather as he was a pure bichon. The mum dog of the pups was one of grandads litter that was their payment for studding him.

Seemed like a very lovely family but now I know that the mongrel info she gave me was wrong, and that it should have had a health check and the vaccinations are standard I am back to square 1.
I told her I wasn't comfortable spending 2k on a dog ive never met and she said that I could pay a deposit which is refundable and then once I visit (hopefully start of dec) I have to then decide one way or the other and after this the deposit will not be refundable.
However after reading this I think I just don't feel comfortable going forward.
I am not experienced and feel like there will be better times to do this where visiting will not be an issue and I can also then put my foot down about meeting the stud.
Thanks to everyone on here who has offered advice. Definitely been an eye opener

All puppies are delicate. I’m not denying that, I don’t need people to tell me that their Uncles friends colleagues doctors daughters Bichon was small 🙈

But we are detailing this thread on just this one aspect.

I like dogs as I grew up with a family pet dog and a working dog. My parents waited till I was 7/8 and my 2 siblings were 5 and 6. They got a pup from a rescue. His mother arrived their pregnant. He grew to the size of a small sheepdog. We were old enough to understand that we could not pull his tail or ears and had to be gentle with him. Like other people said a puppy will chew and bite.
I have heard so many stores of dogs bread to make money for the owners and their is no consideration for the poor dog. Then the puppies can appear fine but have health issues or get sick early on.
I would not buy a dog like your planning to do as I feel your going to end up with dog with problems or one that could die young.
In your case I would wait until both of your children are at least 6 years old and can understand that they have to be gentle with the dog and are in a position to learn how to mind a dog.

@Hmmmmminteresting

Oh gosh, really. I was almost had then. I went in with a list of 14 questions that I wrote down based on this mornings feedback on here and she had really thorough answers for all. We were on the video call for almost an hour. She didn't have the stud with her but it 100% was not the grandfather as he was a pure bichon. The mum dog of the pups was one of grandads litter that was their payment for studding him.

Seemed like a very lovely family but now I know that the mongrel info she gave me was wrong, and that it should have had a health check and the vaccinations are standard I am back to square 1.
I told her I wasn't comfortable spending 2k on a dog ive never met and she said that I could pay a deposit which is refundable and then once I visit (hopefully start of dec) I have to then decide one way or the other and after this the deposit will not be refundable.
However after reading this I think I just don't feel comfortable going forward.
I am not experienced and feel like there will be better times to do this where visiting will not be an issue and I can also then put my foot down about meeting the stud.
Thanks to everyone on here who has offered advice. Definitely been an eye opener

It sucks for you @Hmmmmminteresting because you do sound like you'd provide a great life for a pup but honestly we're seeing SO many health and behavioural issues due to poor breeding and genetics has an enormous influence. It's very difficult to 'socialise out' poor genetics.

Have a look for a KC assured breeder. You're willing to pay a pedigree price. A reputable assured breeder like the op will sell you a healthy, well bred pup for a similar price point

Haven't read the last few bun fight posts but OP, you could get a fabulous rescue dog from here in Portugal for a 1/4 of that price (I do know price isn't a concern for you) and would be making a real difference to a life.

Here's a video I made earlier in the year about my local Municipal kennels;

Wow that's a lot. Our current CKCS was about £850 7 years ago. Times have changed! But the mix you mention sounds adorable! If the parents and pups seem very healthy and no whiff of puppy farm/dodgy people then fine. But I guess that is the risk - how do you know it won't be puppy farm if you're not going to a reputable breeder?

@righttothepoint

cross breeds doesn't make healthier pups, they could as easily inherit the issues found in all 3 breeds. 2k for a complete mongrel seems laughable though.. thats what you could pay for pedigree, full history of perfect breed and medical history

That’s not true at all about cross breeds not being healthier. They live longer than pure breed dogs due to stronger genetic diversity. They also have few health problems. Obviously, you can get genetic testing done on pure breed dogs to improve their bloodline but in general, cross breeds are very unlikely to receive a high dose of any specific dogs breeds genes, making them healthier overall.

@Henrietty wrong

would say a fully grown Shih Tzu/Toy Poodle/Bichon mix would be about a foot high and 10kg
Doubt it, my collie is 15kg...
As for that really quite rude comment about DHs uncle, I only mentioned it because I thought the fact it was one of the breeds mentioned was relevant.
I’ve seen plenty of adult bichons (and Shih tzu and toy poodle) and all three are super small.
I imagine they were all the same sort of size as puppies.
I am very much in agreement with Veterinari here.
If your children are very boisterous a toy poodle/bichon/Shih tzu/any other toy breed is not a good idea.

I wouldn’t get a puppy with a 2 and 4 year old either
I don't see why. It's wonderful when kids and dogs grow up together. We lost ours when our boys were 3 and 5 so got a puppy six months later. She and they have always been fantastic together.

[quote Sarahlou63]Haven't read the last few bun fight posts but OP, you could get a fabulous rescue dog from here in Portugal for a 1/4 of that price (I do know price isn't a concern for you) and would be making a real difference to a life.

Here's a video I made earlier in the year about my local Municipal kennels;

[/quote] I'm a huge fan of rescues. And for the right, experienced owners and carefully selected dogs, rescues from abroad.

But I'd have reservations about suggesting a dog of unknown temperament/testing/genetics to a parent of young children