Help me choose a bread please

[Nochangeplease]

I’m hoping to be able to get a dog next year. Something I’ve wanted since I was a child. I know it’s hard work and I want one so badly that I’ll overlook the mess, the sleepless nights ect.
So there’s me and 2 kids both over 8. I work in a school so I’m out from 8-3:30. Can pay someone to come over during the day and would originally get plan to get a puppy during my 6 weeks off.
I’ve narrowed down several breeds but would love some opinions based on my preferences.

1. Good with kids
2. Easily trained
3. Not big
4. Doesn’t bark a lot
5. Doesn’t need loads of exercise because I can’t do this every day. But capable of coming on long walks on days off.
6. Doesn’t suffer terribly with separation anxiety.

I should also mention I do not have a garden. Willing to walk before and after work though but realistically these won’t always be able to be long walks.

Breed not bread. I came on the thread intrigued by the idea that your dog is struggling to eat bread!

Don't get a JRT. They are generally high energy barkers who need lots of exercise and some outdoor space. I've got one and I know a lot of them.

Also Jack Russell Terriers are prone to nip and bite and are often not good with children.

Dogs need Togo out to the toilet whenever they need to go. What happens if they have sickness and the shits? All dogs have accidents sometimes. My friends who don't have gardens walk their dogs four times a day including last thing at night.

Youll need a dog thats already toilet trained. An older rescue that has been trained and doesnt want loads of exercise. They do come up

If you read the thread at all you'll see that the bread thing has been covered and that no one has suggested a JRT. I used my example to show that even a typically barky breed can be non barky in the right circumstances. Mine is incredibly quiet, she's also only really lively on walks or when we invite her to play and won't get out of bed til the last person in the house is up. This can be 10-11am on a weekend at times. I take her out at 8pm for a quick pee, no big deal. She's perfectly happy in a flat.

Thanks to helpful posters. I’ve taken some breeds off of my list and added a couple.
Clearly I’m not going to find a ‘perfect’ breed especially if going for a puppy. I’ve got to work out which things absolutely won’t work and which will and be willing to accept that o still might end up with the opposite of what I expect.
Cavalier King Charles does sound like a good match. I think I’m likely to end up with a dog that is more prone tonseperation anxiety as most of the small breeds are. But luckily I only work 24 hours a week, and have 13 weeks off a year which is probably a lot less work than other dog owners so I can have a chat with my mum about whether she’d be willing to dog sit during the day. This will obviously be a big commitment in the early days as I’d effectively be asking her to help toilet train it.

Cavalier King Charles Have health issues and can be expensive to insure because of them.
Please try some of the rescues- it might take some time, but you could find a dog from a similar environment whose owner has to go into rented or something. Mayhew have an alert which is very useful.

These threads often generate more heat than light.

Very few dogs live in ideal circumstances. Mine don't, but they have good lives and are happy and fairly well-adjusted (one is a therapy dog, passed the test first time).

OP has a balcony. It's possible to make a place out there for a small dog to pee/ poo and regular disinfection will remove the smell (Zoflora, Virkon, other options).

The thing that concerns me most is the hours OP is out at work and how she plans to cover the puppy period. I work similar hours to OP, so to give you some idea, when Dog2 was a puppy, someone was home with her most of the time. When I went back to work (similar hours to OP) she was already 7 months old. A neighbour came and walked her mid-morning and I came home for lunch and ran her then as well. While I was out, she had access to a paved yard (not dissimilar to a balcony, really).

She had those extra walks until she was 12 months (mid-morning) and about 2 (lunchtime). She's a high-energy working-line dog and needs a lot of stimulation, but she copes brilliantly with the hours she's left. She had an older dog around but he ignored 99% of the time.

So it can work, but you have to be really committed. As others have said, think about what the dog needs and work out if you can provide it.

Schnauzers, shih tzus and Yorkies can be vocal. I personally would avoid frenchies unless you are willing to pay for monthly high insurance cover to cover vet bills. What about a shiba inu? Perhaps not the easiest to train but seems to fit the bill for you. Are you looking for a cuddly dog for the children? I think they can be a bit aloof so cavalier King Charles might better as they’re quite soppy.

Yes don't get a jrt it your terms and conditions would be torture for it.

I would be very careful about the longer walks at weekends thing. That is the sure way to knacker your dogs joints.
You might be wize to get something that can't jump over that balcony too.

The life for this dog that you illustrate is bordering on cruelty in my view. Sometimes they just need to stand outside and sniff the air and have their own bit of territory where they can pee.

A lot of pets have deep psyche issues because of the way they are housed and treated by their loving owners. This is a basket case in the making for you and the dog.

Animal cruelty? Oh do bore off. So I suppose it’s child abuse that my kids never had a garden?
Cannot believe how much middle class bs this thread has drudged up

I have worked with dogs for over forty years. Look up gastric ulceration and the causes. I have no interest in being middle class thanks. Most of my clients are and it's not something to aspire to, trust me.

No it's not child abuse to live in a flat with just a balcony because children have a lot more choices they can make and have a lot more people looking after their interests. The dog has only you and you are not seeing the reality of this animals life from it's point of view. If you select the breed carefully you will have no issues but the bit you put about longer walks at weekends makes it sound like you are putting your needs before the dogs. There are very few dogs that won't go over that balcony too. You crack on though but unless you can find a dog that sleeps 90% of the day and has literally no vices, you will be miserable and the dog will be more miserable.

Haha don't worry OP every puppy thread goes the same way. Cruelty and torture unless you adopt a greyhound/lurcher and own a small estate. Thankfully that's not reality and we meet countless puppies and dogs of all breeds on our daily walks who are happy and well adjusted despite living in flats and being taken out by a walker through the week. Again I don't know why posters are suddenly piping up about JRT's as no one has suggested and OP has never said it's even on a consideration list. Mine is incredibly fit, healthy and happy though and certainly not tortured in any way 😆

Longer walks at weekends is normal... surely?

I mean, assuming nobody means they only get half an hour through the week then you’re expecting them to do 15 mile mountain hikes at the weekend...

The big issue is going to be arranging dog care for while you’re at work, definitely while it’s young, but possibly forever... if you can do that then it widens your choice of breeds as well.

Toilet training will be really hard going with no garden though.

Btw, I wasn’t suggesting a cat, but I was just mentioning orientals because they really are the cat for dog people... if my job changed to daytime hours (it’s hugely unlikely) I’d consider a pair of Siamese cats instead of a dog tbh, I had one - she was great.

Finding a suitable slightly older rescue dog can (in non Covid times) be easier than picking a breed, because you’re not having to work from breed traits but actual dog personalities - so you don’t need to rule breeds out in case they do x y or z... especially once you’ve got something sorted for when you’re at work.

I havent RTFT but I will add my 2p.

My best friend lives in a flat in London and has a frenchie and works full time.

She works from home 3 days a week, the 2 she doesn't a dog walker comes at lunch and takes the dog for a walk then back to doggy day care with her, my friend then collects at approx 7pm!

It costs her a small fortune as the 3 days she often has to travel into central last minute.

She also trained the dog to wee in a box on the balcony, I think it has fake grass in it.

So it can be done...but I'd get a fish.

I've lived in upstairs flat with my large dogs and its fine but more inconvenient for owner not being able to open a door into a secure garden, especially when dog has diarrhoea/uti and requires going out what can feel like every 10 minutes. I'd not fancy it with a puppy given I've usually had enough after a day or 2 with a sick dog but tbh I prefer to rescue 2yr+ dogs once they've settled a bit as find them nicer to be around from day 1.

My greyhound & lurcher made good flat dwellers as like to sleep a lot, zero interest as a watchdog so don't really bark at various neighbourhood noises like the mutt, there's usually more near neighbours to disturb in a flat & soundproofing can be poor in some. Stairs are difficult once old or injured when too big for easy carrying so although thankfully can get full body harness to assist taking weight. I had the dogs prior to the flat, I'd probably opted for whippet (full or lurcher) or hunt down a tiny greyhound, my friend had one not much bigger than a whippet.

My dogs went out about 5 times a day minimum, it was quicker to go up the street for a walk where they had plenty to sniff than the garden. There's been quite a few owners in various places I've lived where their dogs rarely leave the garden.

And fwiw I do have a garden - it's not enclosed and I'm not ground floor but however even if it was it wouldn't help - she won't pee in our garden and needs taken out of the street anyway before she'll go anyway so even having a garden can't guarantee they'll use it as a toilet

For those wondering what happens when flat-dwelling dogs need to vomit or pee.
The first night my rescue dog came home with me, she didn't like to wake me in the night so she carefully did her poo on the doormat by the balcony door, which was easy to clean up. This week, very unusually, she felt nauseous on getting up and pawed me to tell me. I was just standing up to help her get out of the front door, when she was about to vomit so she rushed out of my room, (closely followed by me)through the landing and into the parrot's room, where there is newspaper under his cage, and very carefully vomited onto the newspaper. The perfect dog.

Of course you can have a dog in a flat, lots of people do! Good walks are much more important. I was going to suggest a shiba inu, but they are rare and quite expensive.

Blimey, this thread certainly rubbed some people up the wrong way!

Of course you can have a dog without a garden - it's just harder at the beginning and you have to commit to several walks a day when older so the dogs can go to the toilet, which can be a bit of a pain when the weather is bad or you don't feel very well Like you say, walks are more important than access to a garden - mine barely goes in ours in winter except for the toilet a few times a day.

You can also have a dog and work, you just need to be prepared to buy in care for the dog. A dog walker is one option (though that still means leaving the dog for a long time), or you could look into daycare or home boarding somewhere. Our local kennels offers daycare for £10 per dog, per day and you can pick up and drop off whenever you want between 7am-10pm.

MN can be very fiery when it comes to dog ownership - as you've just found out! Please don't let it put you off. I'm a dog walker and with two exceptions, every single one of the owners work. The others are retired and disabled. All the others work out of the home and work shifts to minimise the time the dog is left, and buy in care (walks or drop ins) on the days where they can't cover it themselves.

All the dogs are absolutely fine, well-rounded and settled. They don't all have garden access either!

The dog walker my friend uses takes dogs for full mornings or afternoons as they go in the van somewhere different like the beach or up in to the hills so it's not just an hour then alone for the rest. Some people even send their dogs for the full day and they come in to her home for the mid day break.

My mum had Cavs and although they are sweet little things they aren't particularly healthy unfortunately so I would avoid. Have heard similar about frenchies.

Sorry if someone has mentioned it but have you considered a greyhound? I know a few people with them and they are lovely dogs that seem to sleep 23 hours a day!