Help me choose a bread please

[Nochangeplease]

I’m hoping to be able to get a dog next year. Something I’ve wanted since I was a child. I know it’s hard work and I want one so badly that I’ll overlook the mess, the sleepless nights ect.
So there’s me and 2 kids both over 8. I work in a school so I’m out from 8-3:30. Can pay someone to come over during the day and would originally get plan to get a puppy during my 6 weeks off.
I’ve narrowed down several breeds but would love some opinions based on my preferences.

1. Good with kids
2. Easily trained
3. Not big
4. Doesn’t bark a lot
5. Doesn’t need loads of exercise because I can’t do this every day. But capable of coming on long walks on days off.
6. Doesn’t suffer terribly with separation anxiety.

I should also mention I do not have a garden. Willing to walk before and after work though but realistically these won’t always be able to be long walks.

Gardens are massively useful for toilet training - but given most exercise should be on walks, only a bit handy after that...

Flat/house makes not much difference really, apart from again toilet training and when they’re either tiny or old if it’s upstairs that can be an issue.

But honestly, no, long days alone with a dog walker in the middle really isn’t ideal... do some dogs cope? Yes, but research shows about 80% of dogs are stressed alone... so the happy dogs you know, probably aren’t as happy as you’d think.

You’re also very very unlikely to get a puppy to time in with school holidays - and even if by some miracle you did with the summer one, it still wouldn’t be old enough to be left that long with just a dog walker coming in.

You’re also looking for traits that don’t go together - easily trained tends to go with needing a lot of exercise because the more biddable intelligent breeds are bred originally to work

Lower energy dogs tend to have been bred for companionship, so they tend to be prone to separation anxiety.

By early days I meant either weeks or months, as long as it takes really. My mum doesn’t work. I’d probably offer her some money for her help as it’s a big commitment.
I only work 4 days so I was thinking dog Walker for once the dog is out of the first year.
But honestly I’m pretty clueless in regards to timeframes and want could happen when. I’m learning.

Ok, besides the toilet issues which seem to be the focal point, your list of "desirables" was pretty similar to mine. I work part time, got the dog in school holidays so could be home with me and the kids for a few weeks. All good.

We got a Lhasa. Pedigree, did everything it said on the tin. Easy to toilet train, quiet, affectionate, loyal. Zero recall and quite stubborn but could live with that. All good. So good in fact that we got another. Same breeder, different litter. My god. What a shock did we get. He barks incessantly. He wants to rip out your jugular if he's startled. Hates other dogs (other than our other Lhasa) so basically turns into a miniature Mike Tyson on walks. Really really needy. And if left longer than 3 hours he will piss EVERYWHERE.

So in my opinion, researching whilst great, doesn't always get it right. Because our second Lhasa is about as far away from his "typical" traits as they can get.

I've got a pug shi tzuh cross and she's the dog of a life time. Loves a good walk but is fine if she doesn't have one. The most friendly and loving dog. She was 11 when our DC came along and hasadjusted well. No safety concerns whatsoever. I've had no health issues with her either, at 13 she's still going strong, the benefits of a mixed breed. She was a bit tricky to toilet train but now she goes for long periods of time without needing the toilet.

@tabulahrasa the points you’ve made about breeds are wet accurate and this is what I’m finding when researching. The ones that seem perfect in one way also seem to be the ones most prone to separation anxiety.
Also agree about the summer holiday idea being very unrealistic so would definitely have to think about how that would work. Can’t get a puppy and go to work.
I’d like to think I could arrange someone to be with the puppy whilst I work until it’s old enough to cope with a dog Walker. But these are conversations I’d need to have if plans became more realistic.

Get a cat.

I’m currently on the waiting list for a particular breed and have been for almost a year, and did a lot of research before deciding on this breed. This will be our first dog and so I’m obviously the voice of inexperience (!) but I wouldn’t choose most of the breeds you’ve chosen in your circumstances, sorry.

If you’re looking at cockerpoos, French bulldogs, and other ‘designer’ breeds you’re opening yourself up to puppy farmers and backyard breeders and that’s a world of unknown - especially for animal welfare and breed testing. Again this is a voice of inexperience but I understand they can be difficult to spot at times.

Every schnauzer I’ve met likes the sound of its own voice. My neighbour has a schnauzer x poodle and it’s the loudest, highly strung dog I’ve ever met! Apart from my friend’s beagle maybe.

I love Cavs but their health problems are a massive concern. You’d need to choose a breeder very carefully and make sure there was good health testing in place going back through generations and from what I understand, that’s rare and hard to find.

I think I’d start again and work backwards from what commitment you can give to find a breed that suits your lifestyle, considering all factors including vets visits and bills (especially if the breed is known to have health issues), grooming / fur shed as well as exercise time, training etc.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

I can’t take a cat for walks or play with it in the same way or have a bond with it like I would a dog. Although I like cats, they are not dogs.

So going back to my list (toilet and work issues aside for now)
French bulldog- good fit but health issues and bad breeders
Cockerpoo- wouldn’t be able to meet it’s needs with regards to energy
Yorkshire terrier-?
Schnauzer- neighbours would report me 😂
Shih tzu, minature poodle..?

Grooming isn’t really an issue.

Yes, you can take a cat for a walk. Yes, you can play and bond with a cat.

Your 'shopping list' of requirements for your ideal dog says you want an animal that requires minimum input, fits in with your lifestyle and can be independent. Also known as a cat.

Yorkies bark a lot too don’t they?
It’s right what someone else said. The small breeds more suited to flats seem to be companion dogs that can’t cope with being left at all or bark a lot.
There must be a happy medium. One without health issues like pugs and frenchies which would otherwise be great I think.

@Sarahlou63 I don’t want an animal that requires minimal input at all. Quite the opposite.
I just so happen to have a job. Like most dog owners. Not even a full time job at that. I work 24 hours a week. This is the main issue which I’ve mentioned various possible solutions for.
I just won’t accept that most dog owners do not work. Plenty do and they make it work, as would I.

I live in a flat (first floor) with a balcony with my dog and she is fine. I also work but less often than I used to as I am much older these days. I do have a garden and use it for her "bedtime wee" though the pavement would be not much more trouble. The only problem you have to get round is puppyhood as you have been made aware the puppy will need lots of company and loo breaks. When I work, I am out longer hours than you but dogwalker comes and spends one hour with dog in middle of day. I hope you do get your dog and wish you both a very happy time together.

@mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork Thank you. Nice to see someone in a similar situation that makes it work.

If you don't have a garden, you can't get a dog, The fact you don't know that suggests you're not fit to have one,

I’m open to adopting an older dog if that was the only solution but I do believe I can make it work with a puppy as I’m willing to do what it takes. I can’t work out the details not as it’s too hypothetical. I really just wanted breed info from experienced owners.

I’ve lived in a flat with a dog before (though did have a communal garden but we were upstairs).

I’d say a miniature poodle would be good for you or maybe a Maltese type.

Yorkies bark a lot too don’t they?

Not IME. Only if there’s someone at the door or similar noise, and they stop once attention is drawn.

Current one I had to teach to bark at sounds. Bloody thing was silent and I kept tripping over it.

@MissEliza there’s no need to be rude. Can you explain why you think that? It shows quite a lack of knowledge of situations that are not your own.
Do you genuinely think all dog owners have gardens? I better tell half the dog owners in my area they are a figment of my imagination.

As friend of mine has a Pomeranian in a flat with no garden, maybe look at the toy breeds? He gets lots of walks around the block and a long walk at lunch. American dog sites seem to recommend dog breeds for apartment living so that might help? You could also find a local dog Walker for advice too. If you register with dog rescues in London you might be lucky?

I’m an experienced owner. I currently have six dogs ranging from 11 years (blind since he was 3) to 4 years old. Had them all from puppies - all mixed breeds except the youngest who is a pure Irish setter. If you really want to have a happy dog get an old rescue dog who will snooze all day and be grateful for a 10 minute potter around the streets morning and night.

I would maybe stick to a loaf and not get a dog.

I've been googling what dog 'breed' to get all evening plus reading old mumsnet posts, i work from home although i may end up going back into the office around the corner come next spring part-time and be at home the rest of the time, i have two young energetic children (5 and 9), i have small garden and live in a new build house (huge woods/field two minutes away) - and i agree with the possible health issues of french bulldog/pugs/king charles cavalier - and as i can't rule out needing to leave it alone for a few hours 2-3 days a week next spring onwards - i'm kinda thinking Chihuahua might be the only dog that suits my needs and maybe that might be good for you as well OP? seems the only other dog that might be happy to sleep when i'm not around / not require over an hours walk a day AND be low maintenance on the grooming front is a basset hound - but i dread to think my neighbours reaction to any barking/howling.

I was hoping for a nice cheery thread where everyone tells me about their dogs. Didnt quite go to plan. I wish I hadn’t wrote about my circumstances and just asked more generally about breed traits and anecdotes.

meaning bassets are louder than smaller dogs on the barking/howling front - plus i'm fairly sure i could smuggle a Chihuahua into the office with me if i really had to.