Help me choose a bread please

[Nochangeplease]

I’m hoping to be able to get a dog next year. Something I’ve wanted since I was a child. I know it’s hard work and I want one so badly that I’ll overlook the mess, the sleepless nights ect.
So there’s me and 2 kids both over 8. I work in a school so I’m out from 8-3:30. Can pay someone to come over during the day and would originally get plan to get a puppy during my 6 weeks off.
I’ve narrowed down several breeds but would love some opinions based on my preferences.

1. Good with kids
2. Easily trained
3. Not big
4. Doesn’t bark a lot
5. Doesn’t need loads of exercise because I can’t do this every day. But capable of coming on long walks on days off.
6. Doesn’t suffer terribly with separation anxiety.

I should also mention I do not have a garden. Willing to walk before and after work though but realistically these won’t always be able to be long walks.

@essexmum777 I’ve looked at them. But potential to bark a lot puts me off. I’d also be really worried on walks about them squaring up to big dogs and getting hurt 😂 they’re known to be quite fiesty

I wouldn’t get a terrier, most terrier breeds are from old working stock, clever, inquisitive, needs lots of exercise.

My neighbour has a really irritating snuffly, but doesn’t seem to need a lot of exercise shih/pug cross which she dotes on, otherwise agree an older dog or cat.

@Nochangeplease - dam but maybe your right, the potential for one of my kids tripping over it is high as well. Basset or cocker spaniel for me then.

Oh FFS - why don’t you think about what you can do for the the dog, not what the dog needs to do for you?

‘Oh, I want a doggy but it mustn’t bark, shit, piss, shed, need regular walks, fight, bite, get wet, muddy, jump up, annoy me, wake in the night, vomit or cry’.

I live in Manhattan. There's something like 80,000 dogs in the city and most of them live in flats. I used to have a Cairn Terrier and a JRT on the 19th floor of a high rise. They were both rescues but the JRT was only 10 months and had to be house trained. I seem to recall a lot of trips up and down in the lift.

Our schedule was 7am walk, 1pm walk, 6pm walk, 10pm pee break. Up and down in the lift each time. They learned quickly enough - lots of treats were involved

Anyway, I'm going to suggest an adult or a senior dog. You need to train the puppies on pads and then re-train them to go outside. Such a hassle.

Popular breeds (living in flats) around here include yorkies, Pomeranians, Westies and mini poodles. Big breeds - Great Danes are Bernese mountain dogs are popular. I also see a lot of labradors and goldens.

I'm now in a garden flat and have two JRTs (my Cairn died). I don't actually use the garden for them much because I don't like to clean it before I let my toddler out there - easier to just take them out rather than stand in the freezing cold scrubbing down the decking.

Happy to chat more about dog/flat life! I've been doing it for years.

@Sarahlou63 you are deliberately misunderstanding everything I’ve said so I’ll just let you crack on with that.
What I need from a god and what a dog needs from me is one and the same. I have considered what I can offer and that’s how I’ve come to those conclusions in the first place in regards to exercise ect. But I won’t reply to you again. You’re clearly looking for an argument. Imagine being so rude in real life 😳

Bear factory

I don’t actually need anything from a god ffs 😂 my typos are on fire tonight

MN is a strange place for dogs. Many posters will happily state that once a child is a second over the age of 18 they are a fully fledged adult no longer in need of parental support but god forbid you have a dog if you have a job.

We have a Shih tzu Bichon cross and he would mostly fit your criteria. He does bark when he wants something or if there's someone at the door. He's lazy and can hold his pee for ages. (His choice not ours)
He used to have a full and active social life (day care, spending the day at grandmas) but with coronavirus it's been cut down to two afternoons out with a dog walker. I also work in a school so we're never too far off a holiday (or isolation ) and he's happy with a mix of short walks during the week and longer ones with the walker or at the weekend.

He also potty trained himself very quickly, we started with puppy pads in the living room, then moved them into the dining room near the back door. As soon as they were near the door he understood our goal and went out. May have just got lucky here.

I think a miniature schnauzer would fit your bill as well. (Based on one I met who was very chilled!)

Op - ignore Wolfe - she has lots of form for ridiculous OTT statements and clearly isn't reading your posts I agree. Just applying their own weird agenda as usual

The cavalier KC could suit you - but alas, the health issues are real that's for sure. But it ticks the boxes for what you're looking for.

I'd say you being in a flat is completely doable providing you're prepared to be in and out an awful lot with toilet training!

[quote Nochangeplease]@Sarahlou63 you are deliberately misunderstanding everything I’ve said so I’ll just let you crack on with that.
What I need from a god and what a dog needs from me is one and the same. I have considered what I can offer and that’s how I’ve come to those conclusions in the first place in regards to exercise ect. But I won’t reply to you again. You’re clearly looking for an argument. Imagine being so rude in real life 😳[/quote]
Sarahlou - is right tho look back at your post. Dogs don't fit into your terms and conditions. What if it does bark? It's a dog What if it does have separation anxiety? No one can predict that for you. Dogs Need walking everyday no matter how long you work or how tired you are... You really need to re think your situation else you are going to end up with a nightmare of a dog and not through the dogs doing either

@FelicityFlamingo

Op - ignore Wolfe - she has lots of form for ridiculous OTT statements and clearly isn't reading your posts I agree. Just applying their own weird agenda as usual

The cavalier KC could suit you - but alas, the health issues are real that's for sure. But it ticks the boxes for what you're looking for.

I'd say you being in a flat is completely doable providing you're prepared to be in and out an awful lot with toilet training!

Cavaliers have separation anxiety they like being with their humans not being left all day

[quote Nochangeplease]@Sarahlou63 I don’t want an animal that requires minimal input at all. Quite the opposite.
I just so happen to have a job. Like most dog owners. Not even a full time job at that. I work 24 hours a week. This is the main issue which I’ve mentioned various possible solutions for.
I just won’t accept that most dog owners do not work. Plenty do and they make it work, as would I.[/quote]
The thing is, really you want to plan as if it’s a child...

People have children and work, they just don’t plan to leave them home alone.

Now you might, possibly, end up with an adult dog who is fine with being left all day with just a walk to break it up.

But, you have to plan for a dog that isn’t, in case it’s not and because for the first 6 - 18 months it won’t be.

Oh... and oriental breed cats btw, basically like having an extra easy to look after dog.

I second a greyhound. Despite their size, they don't need massive amounts of exercise, love sleep, and are generally very clean and quiet. Not to mention adorable.

Kingsmill smells of tuna.

There'ss never been another thread for me to put that on!
Toy Manchester terrier.

If you don't have a garden, you can't get a dog, The fact you don't know that suggests you're not fit to have one,

Jesus fucking Christ I despair. How the fuck do you think millions of people without gardens manage...

If part of the attraction of a puppy is assuming it will be more bonded with you, you might be reassured by my experience. Our first dog was an 8 week puppy. I wasn’t working and he was a lovely boy; as he was a giant breed (English Mastiff) I was careful with socialisation and took him to puppy training classes. Second and third dogs I got at 2 years old as I was working, and although there was always an adult in the house, I didn’t have the time to commit to a puppy. Both these bitches were equally bonded to us, I was quite surprised.
I would definitely consider an adult. A good way to find one is to contact show breeders of favoured breeds. Sometimes they are looking to move on a dog that has had a litter or two and they don’t want to stress their health by having more but need to make way for another dog, or the dog hasn’t grown to be as show worthy as early promise suggested.
These dogs can be very well socialised and trained. My third dog had qualified for Crufts for her breeder and given her a lovely litter, but she was a delta in the pack and one of her own pups that the breeder kept on started to bully her, so the breeder let me have her for free on condition I spayed her. She was a sweetheart, a beautiful, healthy, bulldog. We stayed in close touch with the breeder and sometimes saw her. Another advantage of buying from show lines is that good breeders work hard to eradicate or minimise breed associated health problems, so they breed from animals checked for hip displasia, heart defects etc. Whereas a puppy advertised online, even if KC registered, might be Deborah mating her pet Cavalier with her mate’s Cavalier without any real understanding of their bloodlines.

I live in a flat with a dog and no garden and have done, successfully, for over twenty years. It has its pros and cons; you do need to be more dedicated but it can be done. Your list of requirements, though, is a bit of a big ask, particularly for a puppy to live up to.

Many of the smaller dogs are barky and/or not necessarily that great around younger kids (and can be tricky to train); dogs which train easier tend to need more exercise and stimulus generally, or are at the larger end of the scale.

If you haven't settled on a particular breed you might be better to look for an individual dog which fits your lifestyle rather than plumping for a specific breed puppy and trying to mould it. As a previous poster has said, they don't all fit the written breed descriptions!

I'd spend some time on the Battersea Dog & Cat Home website and register on there for, perhaps, an older puppy or young adult dog whose personality (caninality?) would suit. They home to flat dwellers (with and without gardens), parents and people who work if they feel the dog is suitable. Dogs go to Battersea for any number of reasons and probably Covid will result in more owners surrendering family pets due to changes in circumstances.

Cockatoos fit all your criteria, but they really love people and some get massive seperation anxiety .. think all the people who love prattling on about how your should get a dog ‘only if you have a garden’ need to back off, a lot of people don’t have/will never have gardens, does that mean they don’t deserve to be and can’t be good dog owners? Certain breeds can adapt to apartment living with enough walks and exercise and loo training

KissKiss

'Certain breeds can adapt to apartment living with enough walks and exercise and loo training'

Why should they have to

I have an 8 month old puppy and live in a first floor flat with no enclosed garden. It's really not that bad. Yes I had to take her down and stand with her in the night albeit not for long as she's a lazy little thing. I also work in a school but my dog goes to my parents every day. They offered this when I was considering a dog. Mines a Jack Russell terrier and is happy with short walks on busy days and longer ones when we have the time, she hated the rain and curls up and hides her face hoping you won't notice her and take her out. My dc are 7 and 10 and I can leave them for 5 minutes to take her out for an evening/early morning pee. If you like frenchies but want something a bit more athletic a Boston terrier could tick all your boxes. That was my original choice but finding one (like you) available around the beginning of the summer was quite tricky. I imagine the same could be said for most breeds though. In the end it became clear we'd be closed in March for several months and a friend of mine happened to have one Jack Russell left of her litter so we went for it and I've not regretted it for a second. She's such a fun little dog although I'd probably not recommend as a first dog or in a situation where they need left for a while as they are generally incredibly peopley dogs who want to always be with you but need very careful socialisation. Not easy in a lockdown, mine is great with dogs but terrible with strangers thanks to lockdown. I'd definitely not recommend a cockapoo in a flat with no garden. They are both working breeds therefore high energy and can be quite large - you can't predict the size either as my sister has 2 full siblings and they are totally different in size and appearance.

Cockatoos fit all your criteria

OP has already said she doesn't want a cat - why should she want a bird?

You know I have children that are just fine without a garden so I hardly think it’s be animal abuse to have a dog without one. To the people suggesting cats I actually think a cat needs a garden more than a dog.
A dog needs walks more than it needs a garden. As I said I only work 24 hours a week so it’s definitely something that can be worked around. I’d obviously walk before and after work.
I obviously understand all dogs can bark or end up with seperation anxiety but there are definitely breeds more prone to these things and that was what I was asking.
The garden thing is a non issue in my opinion.

I also don’t think working 24 hours a week is that bad. It’s literally half the hours of a full time job. Plus an extra half hour a day travel time.

Just ignore those saying you must have a garden. I live in a very dog friendly city and there are thousands of happy dogs here that live in flats. FWIW my Jack Russell never barks in the house. Cities are noisy as are family homes so they are much more desensitised to noise than a dog that lives in a quieter location might be. My friend has Boston terriers and they are not big barkers at all and very child friendly (my terrier a bit less so) is definitely look in to those with your requirements. Having a dog you can lift and pop under your arm is hugely beneficial I find with my circumstances. I'd definitely not recommend a retired greyhound, who could end up struggling with the stairs in a few years. A whippet might be a good option though.