Puppy Survival 2020 - let's talk about something other than Covid-19

[MortyFide]

I know a non-coronavirus thread will quickly disappear down the active list, but these Puppy Survival discussions have been popular in the past - God knows I could do with one now, not just because all talk tends to be limited to CV at the moment while we're all stuck indoors, but because I have so many puppy questions which aren't necessarily answered just by googling.

Any takers - has anyone else just got a new puppy and wondered what on earth they've done? Why does he pee every 3 minutes? What do you DO with a puppy all day? Am I doing everything wrong? Etc.

Here's mine, he's an 11 week old border terrier. I'll come back with more posts and questions to bump the thread at peak times, see if we can't get it going. If not, oh well - I tried! Thanks to Biteyshark for the suggestion.

[Mostlydrinkingtea]

Hello all, I am so glad to have found this thread! I need the hive mind that is Mumsnet.

I've got a 12 week old springer spaniel pup called Bailey. We've had him 3 weeks now and he loves eating, snuggling on our laps and chewing his chew toys.

However, he is really, really bitey. Not all the time, and I can tell sometimes it's because he is overtired. But other times, like first thing in the morning after he's been out for toileting I offer him a toy and instead of taking the toy, he chooses my hand / arm / ankle instead and bites that. He growls and grabs at my jeans like a tug toy. I tried waiting for him to stop and rewarding him, but that didn't work as he doesn't stop and it's pretty hard to wait when sharp puppy teeth are sinking into your flesh. Even offering a treat next to his nose, he just looks at me and hangs on. So now I've started to put him in his crate for a few minutes to calm down and then reward him for sitting nicely in there. It's so exhausting. Every morning it starts with me and then we have the same process when DS, DD and DH come down for breakfast. He's confined to the kitchen and basement living room / hall way and is not allowed upstairs yet. He's happy in his crate which is in the kitchen in the day, he pops in and out for a nap or to play with a toy. He sleeps in the crate at night and is happy as long as I sleep in the same room. I am longing to be able to sleep back in my own bed but if I leave him for a minute, day or night, he starts scratching and whining. Please tell me this will get better!!!

[Givemeallthewine]

mostlydrinkingtea the bitey situation sounds similar to our puppy. My arms and upper thighs are covered in bruises from bite marks. Some days are better than others, today is better! Tomorrow I’m sure we’ll be back to bitey!

I’m sorry to hear about your sleep situation - we just left our puppy in his crate (which is in a larger playpen with water) overnight the first night he came home and he whined for 5 mins then never whined since. I think you might have to treat it a little like controlled crying with babies - start in the daytime, leaving him for short periods and letting him whine for a bit, then make it longer and hopefully soon you can leave him overnight without sleeping in the same room.

I’m no dog expert though so I could be totally wrong! But I’ve found so far that puppies and babies are fairly similar!

[MortyFide]

We've had a minor breakthrough here - by a) changing his food, and b) using a 60 second time out.

I mean it's only been a couple of days since we've noticed a difference, but it's definitely a marked difference!

Food wise he was on AVA Small Puppy, which by all accounts is an excellent quality food. But he had rather squishy, very frequent poos which were a bit long and pencil thin - and he had terrible, eye watering wind.

So I switched him to Burns Puppy - it doesn't score as highly on paper, but I had my old dog on it to avoid her gaining weight, a colleague moved her lab puppy over to it and said she was calmer, so I ordered some and started adding it in to his 3 meals a day a few days ago (not quite 100% converted yet).

There has been less smelly wind today, he's done fewer poos and they are smaller and firmer already.

As for the mad bitey zoomies lasting HOURS where you need an oven glove and a stiff drink to interrupt him, these seem very much reduced. The time out has been very effective for obnoxious barking, and psycho zoomies where he tries to tear chunks out of us. When he loses control and the barking is too much, he simply gets placed behind a door in another room (safely, obvs). He doesn't cry or bark, he seems to sit and contemplate. He is invited back in after a minute or so - and he doesn't come back all sad and submissive or worried, it's just like pressing a re-set button! He's just pleased to see us, and calm.

In fact it was a time out that called a halt to 10 minutes of shoe stealing, barking, snarling, and racing around the garden like a maniac this evening - instead of letting him burn himself out by staying out of his way for 2 hours, I managed to grab him and shut him in the kitchen for 60 seconds.

Boom, re-set button! He ambled happily back in, asked politely to come and sit with me and is now asleep.

Let's see if it lasts...!

[Mostlydrinkingtea]

@Givemeallthewine ha that sounds just like me, I'm covered in bruises and scratches! How old is your pup?

It is just like having a baby. I thought crying him down would work as that worked with my DD. I left him for the first night and he whined and howled, the second night the same and I was worried I would make him anxious and stressed. I'm working on getting him to be happy in the crate in the day with the door shut. Which he is when I'm there. I have to work up to going out of the room for a few seconds / minutes. At the moment he gets upset if I go out of the room for more than about 10 seconds.
It seems like there are those who say leave them to cry and those who say build gradually so they feel secure. I just want to do what's best for him, I don't want to make him into an anxious dog that's afraid to let me out of his sight.

[Mostlydrinkingtea]

@MortyFide good that your time out worked! I ended up putting Bailey in crate for a minute to calm him down when he was relentlessly bitey and it did seem to help. I also had to put him in his crate when he discovered he can jump from the bench seat onto the worktop. Now I know why they are called springers....

[Wolfie11]

Can I join please 🙈?! This is Cody, he’s an 8 week old Alaskan Malamute who came home on Monday after what felt like a very long wait as he was booked since December! He’s actually being really good so far. The first two nights he slept in his crate beside the bed and woke me up for a pee at half 4 then slept till half 7ish. The past two nights he has slept all night 🥳. Toilet training going pretty well, we seem to be managing to get most outside. Few pee accidents in the evening when he’s playing/doing zoomies! He’s not got a great appetite which is stressing me out 🤦🏼‍♀️. Going to pets at home tomorrow to see if we can get something tastier to try and entice him! At the moment biting seems to be limited to my dressing gown, I’m sure that will change soon though! Bit of a shock to the system going from a well behaved, elderly dog who I knew inside out, to no dog and a few quiet cats to a wild puppy . We love him to bits already though but it’s definitely like having a toddler again! My house is such a mess because I can’t take my eyes off him and working from home isn’t going all that well 🙈. He’s actually being such a good boy so far though but I’m sure I will be wondering what the hell I’ve got myself into at some point 😂.

[Givemeallthewine]

mostlydrinkingtea it’s such a tricky one isn’t it? I’d say just do it gently. As per babies - they don’t stay like this forever! (I hope!!), so gradually and gently will get you there. I agree though that not letting him cry for too long is the best plan. The lack of sleep is tough though, hopefully you’re working from home or not having to be anywhere early the next day.
Just as an extra note to anyone worrying about a puppy not eating or going off food...,our 10wk old puppy came to us eating every meal, then gradually got fussier & picky. Yesterday he turned his nose up at every meal served and I went to bed panicking something was wrong / he’d eaten something he shouldn’t.
He woke today right as rain and ravenous and is back to eating every meal put in front of him. I wonder if it was teething as he seems less bitey (but still quite bitey!) than the last few days.

[Givemeallthewine]

wolfie11 he’s a total cutie!! Try not to stress re food, although I know it’s hard. I read another thread on here that said similar re pup coming home and not eating much.... it’s a combination of stressful changing home environments and also not having the litter competition for food so not worrying about scoffing it all. I stressed out yesterday when our pup barely ate & my husband said not to worry, he’ll eat when he’s hungry. Lo and behold he did today. Give it time and so long as he’s drinking, pooing and weeing then it should be fine 🐾

[nearlyfinished1moreyear]

@Wolfie11 he is the cutest thing I've ever seen! I love Mals but our house just isn't the right size to accommodate one.

[Fizzypoo]

Vets 4 pets are doing injections now. They have reconsidered.

We wanted to use our local vet and do a puppy care plan with them but as vets 4 pets have changed their stance on injections I've booked her in Monday.

I think we have to start the course again but I'm happy they're happening! Can't wait to take my puppy on her first walk!

[nearlyfinished1moreyear]

That's great news @Fizzypoo our wee one gets her 2nd lot on Wednesday!

Anyone got any advice on lead walking? I've never had this problem b4 with previous dogs but I've been letting her wear the lead in our garden, house etc and she will just not walk! She literally lays down and does this horrible Yelp/cry

[MortyFide]

@Wolfie11 OMG he's a lovely pup! He's going to be big though, blimey I'm only accustomed to small terriers! Sounds like progress is good so far, how's it going? As someone said, don't stress about the food, he won't starve himself. I can't speak for my current puppy, as he's a little pig, but my old dog was super fussy as a puppy. She barely ate and she was so skinny and underweight - but the vet kept reassuring me that it was all okay, and after about 2 years (!!) she actually settled into a regular eating pattern. She was just too busy and energetic to waste time on food, she simply didn't care about it at all. The only thing that made her eat fast was competition, but that was only effective when she was at work and there were other dogs lurking!

@mostlydrinkingtea I think you're right about building up time alone gradually - I read that ignoring the crying works to a point, but you still have to create bonds with the dog and they need to know that we can be relied upon for comfort and reassurance (hence that old thing of not comforting them when fearful as it "reinforces fear", has been debunked - along with dominance theory). So I guess we all have to find the fine line between reassurance and building trust...and being a pushover!

We had 2 days accident free this week but I messed it up yesterday morning when I spent a moment too long faffing before getting Trevor downstairs - he crimped off a few turds in my spare bedroom to punish me for my utter ineptitude, and followed that with a giant piss in the kitchen and another in my office - whilst the back door was standing open. But the rest of the day was fine, if the door is closed and he needs the toilet he uses his doggy door.

We have one current issue, and one brewing. The current one is mornings - he starts fussing and whining at 5.30am, so we've given up and one of us gets up and takes him downstairs for breakfast at 6am. That's way too early!

The brewing problem is separation. He doesn't get hysterical but he does fuss a bit when left, even if I've only gone upstairs - DH is convinced that this is setting him up for a lifetime of separation anxiety, whereas I'm more relaxed about it. He's only 14 weeks FGS, we've got time to work on it surely?

[Cocoaone]

Hi all

Joining in for collective support and advice!
We have a dachshund puppy - she's 9 weeks and so lovely. She did all her toileting outside for the first 3 days with her, including standing at the door and whining when she needs to go. However - she soon encountered some wind and rain at nighttime and refused to go, then promptly wee'd and poo'd as soon as she got inside

She's eating most, but never all her food. Trying not to stress about that. And she still wakes once or twice a night for the toilet. I'm currently sleeping on the couch, and she's in her crate next to me.

Need to start working on leaving her alone soon, as once we're back to work properly they'll be a couple of days a week that a dog walker will come to walk her in the day. Very concerned that all this WFH will lead to severe separation anxiety

[Mostlydrinkingtea]

@mortyfide your morning toilet accidents made me laugh out loud! I needed that :)
On the early mornings, I am starting to get woken a bit earlier, around 5.30/6 but I take him out as if it was nighttime, we go to the garden I don't turn any lights on or speak much and when we come back in I put him back in his crate and go back to bed until 6.30/7. He seems to accept it. Might be worth a try?
On the separation anxiety, I can't leave the room. He's ok if someone else is with him but if I pop upstairs to bathroom and he's alone in kitchen he whines and fusses. He sleeps in his crate at night but only with me in the same room and I'm worried I'll never get out of there!

[nearlyfinished1moreyear]

Welcome @Cocoaone he's a wee cutie! I'm loving all the puppy pics!

Our girl has been great toilet training but we had that problem with the rain also and refusing to go outside, unfortunately I have no advice but if it's any help my old boy will hold his bladder if it's raining still to this day (he's 7)!

Regarding the separation my little one still cries at the gate when I leave the room but I'm just ignoring her and hopefully she gets over it, she's got my other dog in with her but she still does the whining!

[MortyFide]

Beyond frustrated this morning. I feel like we're never going to break free of this horrible puppy period where he's so inconsistent, no matter what we do or how hard we try to stick to a routine.

Every morning he's so beside himself with excitement that we are getting up to pay him attention and give him food that he loses his mind. We take him out for a wee/poo, feed him, he bops out of the dog door, bops back in and pisses on the carpet. I clean up quietly, take him outside, he barks like a maniac so I rush him back in to avoid waking the neighbours at 6.30am and he pisses on the kitchen floor.

Try to play a little game with him and he goes mental, tearing at my hands and dressing gown, so I end the game and ignore him. He plays with his own toys so I quietly praise him and encourage him to bring his toy over so we can play together. So he attacks my hands again and the cycle starts over, me ignoring the rough game he wants to play with me as the toy, but feeling guilty for not engaging with him because doing so only tips him over the edge.

Once he's calmed down he'll spend the rest of the day using the dog door to go out to the toilet, IF we're reasonably vigilant about keeping an eye on him.

During his brief spells of downtime all he really wants is to be cuddled to sleep with me, but we are trying to enforce napping in his own bed (we don't have a crate so it takes a lot of ignoring his crying and fussing to lay with me). So I just feel horrible and mean all the time that I'm not being the reassuring presence he needs me to be.

And the little shit has worked out how to get past the barrier and come up the stairs but won't come down, he just jumps about and barks to be carried down then (sometimes) pees in fear when you go to pick him up. I don't know what to do about that, presumably he'll develop the confidence to come down on his own when he's a bit bigger...

Ugh, I never even wanted a bloody puppy but let DH talk me round.

[Fizzypoo]

OP do you think it's the breed?

My puppy wakes up and we take her outside, she has a wee and a poo. I then give her breakfast and go back to bed with her with a coffee and she goes back to sleep.

There's a training site on facebook called dog training advice and support. They say that you shouldn't let your puppy cry for you as they're still young and doing so increases their separation anxiety. Theres a flitting exercise to do which supports puppies to be happy being by themselves.

[MortyFide]

I dunno Fizzy, but he's a terrier so they can be pretty lairy.

The trouble is that the advice is so contradictory - I believe that letting him cry is going to make him more anxious, DH believes that "coddling" him will make him more dependent. So we're permanently at odds with each other on how to deal with him, and it's not helping.

It was exactly the same with our old dog. He's happy to sit back and criticise how I do things (and make PA remarks whenever the dog behaves other than perfectly), but equally he says he leaves all the training to me because he "doesn't have the patience" for it.

Drives me mental and was one of the reasons I was perfectly content to remain dog free! I check out the FB page but I'll never convince DH to change his mindset because he's always bloody right anyway.

[Mostlydrinkingtea]

@mortyfide if it makes you feel any better, my spaniel pup is exactly the same. I hate getting up in the morning as I know he'll go all bitey and be hanging off my leg, nipping at my arms and hands. He's also determined to get up on the kitchen bench seat and sleep there and everytime I gently put him down on the floor he gets all bitey.

[Mostlydrinkingtea]

@fizzypoo I joined the FB page on dog training as it was recommended by someone on here. I've been afraid to post yet as they are very specific about reading the units before you ask a question! The info on there is very helpful.

[Fizzypoo]

@Mostlydrinkingtea yes it's a very strict page!

I think I've jinxed myself. My perfect puppy has been a bitey monster today and has been snapping at our faces 🤦‍♀️.

[MortyFide]

Oh no Fizzy. The start of a new phase! It'll pass.

Well Trev slept from 9.30pm right through to 5.45am - I got up, took him for a wee, fed him, made sure he'd had a poo, then brought him upstairs to see if he would be happy to lounge around in bed with us for another hour.

He went straight into bitey-mode and I begged DH to just stay quiet and not rev him up. He told me I had no chance as he'd been asleep all night and was going to be revved up already, so proceeded to have a play fight with him until the puppy was mad with excitement and abruptly pissed on the bed. Bloody bloke.

Puppy has also discovered how to jump up onto the bed and the sofa, so those safe zones are no more!

[TheKrakening3]

This is Brian. He is 13 weeks today. He is just beginning to settle down with the biting and chewing and is almost sleeping through the night. Kids think he is the best thing since sliced bread.

[midnightstar66]

@Missmelanier we're meant to be getting ours on the 30th. Thankfully they are able to get their first vaccinations but not sure yet about micro chip. Apparently vets will complete after dose 1 but actually restrictions have been lifted slightly anyway so looks likely new vaccinations can be done . Picking up is our main problem although they live very rurally so it's not ridiculous if they are a distance away at a supermarket and they are in the right direction that I have an excuse to be out that way too. A non contact supermarket pick up is perhaps the way to go. (To add I know the breeder well and already know pups mum so don't have the added issue of needing to see babies with mum/see their home etc)

[midnightstar66]

I'm not sure what to do about my wires though 😬