Advice Needed about recall & jumping up

[HorseyVic]

First time poster, bit nervous!
I have an 8 month old jack Russell - poodle cross. She is a medium sized dog, about the same size as a springer spaniel. She’s also very clever and very fast. At home in the garden/field, at training and when we are out and there’s no one else around, her recall is excellent but as soon as she sees another dog she legs it to say hello. Nothing we have tried (treats, ball) is enticing enough to get her to come back. She also sometimes jumps up. She is getting better at not doing that but twice recently has nearly had elderly ladies over. I only let her off places that are well known dog walking areas and when I think it’s safe to do so, but she will cover a huge amount of ground very quickly if she sees another dog. How do we go from perfectly behaved when no ones around to well behaved when there are other people and dogs?
Also a bit of an AIBU - when people are walking in very wet, very muddy places that are popular with dog walkers AIBU to think that they’re idiots if they are in brand new, clean clothes?

She's still young and at that age still likely to bolt. Have you tried recall when tempting distractions are still at a distance or is any sight of them too much for her? If it is, you might want to keep her on a longline and work on her recall on that, including around distractions, because the more she self-rewards by legging it, the more ingrained that behaviour will become. And the more people you will annoy.

There is a lot of good advice in 'Perfect Recall' which talks about all possible temptations.

(And anybody who walks in muddy areas, dogs or not, in clean new clothes is an idiot. That said, I do get pissed off when accosted by dogs with zero recall especially if they either jump up or disturb my own dog during training.)

Thanks I’ll have a look at perfect recall. She has come back a couple of times recently instead of running but that relies on me seeing or hearing the other dog before she notices. I hadn’t thought of it as self-rewarding before, that’s really helpful, thanks. I also really understand the annoyance at training being interrupted. I really don’t want her to upset or worse still injure someone but I don’t know how to train her to resist the temptation without exposing her to it (given that she is good in any training we’ve done).

Total Recall is an excellent book with loads of advice on dealing with all kinds of issues. When you say you use treats, what are they? For recall you want to be offering something waaay better that the 'reward' of playing with another dog - hot dogs, cooked chicken breast, liver paste. Whatever totally floats her boat, and have the odd jackpot of something super special so she never knows if that would be on offer

If you can't trust her off the lead around other dogs then she really needs to be on a long-line until you crack it. I understand that might be limiting for you but it's really not fair on other dogs/owners to have to cope with your dog charging up to them.

Put a longline on her and whenever you call her back and she ignores you, you can stand on it and stop her from running off. Even if she doesn't return to you right away, it prevents her from running off and pestering someone else.

I also agree that wearing clean, new clothes in a muddy area isn't the most sensible choice but people shouldn't have to deal with your dog jumping up at them. It's generally tolerable when it's your dog but not so much when it's someone else's!

I was full of sympathy until your last point - YAB incredibly U.

While you are enacting the very good advice above, Total Recall methods, gradually ramping up the distractions but keeping her below threshold etc... she absolutely has to be on a long line the entire time. With a few knots in it so you can stamp on it and reel her in.

Thanks everyone for your advice. Treats - we’ve used cheese, hot dogs, cocktail sausages, a certain puppy treat that she loves. I’m not an irresponsible owner, I’m am doing everything I can but I’m running out of ideas, hence asking for help.

She’s a teenager, it will get better but meanwhile use a long line and have consequences, if she doesn’t come back then put her on a short lead for the rest of the walk.
My boy was the same, you really have to work on being more fun! Train an emergency stop, it might save her life one day. She needs to be a bit older but what helped my boy was some agility training too

We've a jrt cross that's a similar age, Ive worked on 'wait' so rather than expecting him to come back I expect him to stand still until I get to him iyswim?

It's taken a lot of practice with high value treats but he's getting there slowly...

Wait is a really useful command and recommend it. I have a stubborn breed of dog and while her recall isn't 100% I know that if I tell her to wait she will stay till I get to her.

Longline. You must (by law) have your dog under control in public.
Have a look at four on the floor. Rewarding for not jumping up.

Yes I’ve started using wait and doing more training with that. She was really good when she was about 4,5 months and I think we stopped doing the basics thinking she’d got them. She has got a lot bigger and faster than we expected which has played a part, but yes the JRT poodle cross is very smart and very cheeky.

I should have said that you also need to practice recall when you don't actually need her to return to you. Let her frolic about and then randomly recall (I use a whistle) and keep repeating the command as she gets closer, and then turn on the epic praise when she's a few yards away - 'Oh, such a good girl! WHAT a girl!' Crouch down as you do it, open up your arms and give her loads of physical fuss. If she skips about and won't accept the fuss, put the treats on the ground between your legs so that she gets used to your hands all over her when she recalls. Then... let her go again with whatever word or phrase you use - okay, go free,. If you don't have a 'release' command, now is a good time to start using one.

If you do this repeatedly you can phase out the treats (but keep the praise) and you should have a dog who will become conditioned to racing back to you from whatever she is doing, and expect you to touch her, which lets you get hold of her collar or put a slip lead over her head (again, have your lead to hand when you recall and sometimes just put it on her randomly before letting her go again almost at once).

If she doesn't recall and you have to go and get her, make it clear that you're pissed off.

In this way, recall becomes almost a game - it's a way of getting lots of praise and perhaps a random treat and maybe even a tennis ball. And keep on doing it, a few times, on every walk, for years, even once you think you have it 99% nailed.

Another useful command is 'stop' (Stellaris upthread calls it 'wait') - look on YouTube for gundog trainers teaching this.

JRT poodle cross is very smart and very cheeky.
JRTs are little buggers. Fabulous in the right hands, but little buggers.

Can she hear you when she runs off? Would it worth trying a dog whistle if you’re not already?

I can’t be arsed getting changed every time I take the dog out for a walk
And mine doesn’t jump up really
So I will normally just throw an old coat over the clothes I’m already wearing for the day
Wouldn’t be impressed if someone else’s dog jumped up and ruined them!

Thanks - I do the random recall thing but probably don’t make enough fuss of her.
How do I make it clear that I’m pissed off?

Don’t act pissed off when you finally retrieve her. That’ll just reinforce her not wanting to come back!

Wolfiefan that’s the principle I’ve worked on so far - that if you punish them when they come to you then they won’t come back but when she doesn’t come back (I normally have to catch hold of her harness, I ask the other owner if I can pet or give their dog a treat and Jessie comes to get one) I don’t tell her off just put the lead on and take her away from the other dog.

She won’t come for a treat if I don’t make a fuss of the other dog!

He's a terrier so will have a huge prey drive. I've two border terriers, both trained in exactly the same way. One is brilliant recall, the other I can no longer let off the lead, as once he picks up a scent, that's it, he's off and nothing and no one will ever bring him back until he's ready.

@HorseyVic we are in the same boat as you. Our dog will ignore adults, kids, bikes, prams
etc, but he would happily go home with any dog he meets on a walk. Most do not feel the same about him! 😄 He is on a long line at the moment. I hate having him on it. He drags it though mud and sometimes it gets stuck on bushes. I have to reel it in quick around people so we don’t tie them up. His recall is great around people but not dogs. I don’t want him to constantly be running off to greet dogs who are minding their own business. I try to be more interesting on walks. I change direction and hide from him. He has recently started to play fetch, so we play that on a walk.
I reward him if he recalls on the lead from another dog. I know what distance I can reliably recall him. If he gets beyond this, he will run up to a dog and there is no stopping him. Try a long line and work out what distance works for you and your dog. Eventually you should be able to shorten the distance. In theory anyway! I’m a long way from overcoming this issue with my dog, but I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. 😄

Some really great advice upthread, and I’m sure you have a great little dog.

However the only person responsible for your dog’s behaviour is you. No matter how naturally cheeky, if your dog is not 100% reliable in behaviour which affects others then he needs to be on a long line until he’s out of those teenage years and has reliable recall. It could save his life.

I am afraid you need a long line to stop her from running off which is a self-reinforcing behavior. At the same time you have to continue to strengthen the recall in safe places. Recall game between two people, or if you are on your own, recall, reward, step back a few strides, recall, reward, repeat.

I am afraid you are responsible when your muddy dog jumps up on other people. The onus is not on them to wear clothes that are already dirty.

At the moment all you're doing is reinforcing her behaviour. She runs off to other dogs and gets to play - which is what she wants to do - so she won't stop.

You need to stop the behaviour before it starts. Longline and harness and do not let her approach other dogs. At all. As soon as she starts to dash over, stamp on the line and recall her. She has to come back to you - don't give her the chance to make the wrong decision.

It's not fair on other owners if you allow your dog to approach theirs. Fine if you know the dog and owner and they're happy for the dogs to play, but otherwise you're putting your dog (and theirs) in a potentially dangerous situation. My pet hate is owners who can't/won't recall their dogs and think it's acceptable to let their dog pester mine when he's on his lead. If you can't keep your dog under control it needs to be on a lead in public.

I have a dog who has poor recall so, unfortunately for him, the majority of his walks are on lead, both for his safety and for my own sanity! If he's on a lead he's under my control and I know he's safe. He does go and play off-lead but only in certain areas and with dogs I know he gets on with and who will happily play with him.

Thanks - if I have her on the lead I ask if it’s ok if the dogs say hello. Some owners are happy to let them play a little while. It’s when we are apparently alone and then she spots another dog in the distance that we have a problem.
I took her out on the long line today and she was great, but then we didn’t see any other dogs.
I totally accept the thing about her being my responsibility, and people’s clothes.

It’s when we are apparently alone and then she spots another dog in the distance that we have a problem.

In that case she needs to be on a long line all the time. You can't guarantee you're not going to see other dogs and it's not fair on other owners to have your dog run up to them when you can't recall them.

If the other dog was on the lead and happened aggressive or reactive or scared and bit your dog, you would be at fault for not having your dog under control.