Giving up 12 week old puppy

[Ridusofyourstupidity]

Please please be kind.

I’ve been quite honest on here about losing my last puppy suddenly to anaphylactic shock and getting our new puppy a few weeks later. Now I’m not sure I can keep her due to her behaviour. It goes beyond anything I’ve experienced. She is 12 weeks old, weighs over 14kg and can reach chest height when she jumps against me.

She is repeatedly attacking me on a near constant basis with seemingly no reason. She will be chewing on a toy, lying down and get up to lunge and jump at me and bite my stomach, legs and arms while growling if I’m standing in the room even if I haven’t moved to draw attention to myself. If I ask for a sit or similar to distract her she’ll snap at me and ignore the request, although she does know ‘Sit’, ‘Down’, ‘Touch’ and will give both paws. When I have to carry her in from the garden she’ll growl and snap at my face. She is a large breed who isn’t meant to do stairs so this is unavoidable.

I can’t enter the room without her attacking me, she’ll bite the backs of my legs or jump up at my side to bite my arm. She’ll try and mount my leg while biting me if I’m still Leaving the room does nothing, she’ll try and block me leaving and she’ll continue when I return, even if calm. Toys do nothing as she will ignore them to jump and continue biting higher. Or she’ll pull my clothing like a tug toy while growling. I’ve tried every kind of toy but she let them go, snarl and dart under them to get back to biting me.

It is either very rough play or something more but it’s unmanageable. I’m now having to leave her alone in the kitchen as I can’t be in there with her, even when calm she will without warning launch at me. I keep trying to go in but it soon becomes too much as she doesn’t stop trying to get to me to bite. 15 mins is the most I’ve lasted with her ignoring toys and being latched on to me.

She’s incredibly difficult to walk even with no distractions as she’ll still attack me and bite me while we’re walking. She refuses all treats on a walk (I’ve tried several) and will pull, be incredibly hyper, running from left to right, and lunge and bite when I stay still.

I’ve done everything we covered in the puppy classes with my last puppy with her from the day we brought her home and none of this has made any difference. She has a marker word and all other commands are the same as before so everyone is on the same page. I’m not sure I’m going to make it through until Friday when I have a private training session booked. I’m utterly miserable and defeated.

Speechless.

What's your plan now, OP? Sorry if I missed it. Carry on with 121 training/behaviourist?

Are you prepared to keep your children away from the pup at all times?

Pup is separated from the children at all times. That rule has been in place for weeks and the children all adhere to it. It was put in place originally to make sure no bothered her while she was settling in but has been helpful since this escalated.

I’m going back to the vets tomorrow morning to ask their advice. And also the behaviourist to get some immediate advice as they have a 5-7 day wait before they can arrange to come out.

I’m waiting to hear back from two local rescues.

I don't think a rescue is a bad idea at all, OP. I follow a spaniel group and they often have problem dogs into rescue who are fostered by a very experienced helper. Only after a long period of assessment is the dog is offered for adoption to people who meet very specific requirements and with an honest posting about them.

It sounds a better bet than the breeder, i wouldn't have returned the puppy either. Telling you to put a dog down that they bred? Unforgivable.

Span1els

Thank you. I really really needed to hear that.

I'm not an animal person at all but l can feel how much you love Hope. I think you are doing the very best you can.

I find it astonishing that some posters were having a go at the OP in the beginning for going to this breeder in the first place, saying the breeder was on the make and clearly knew nothing about the dogs she was sending out, and oh how interesting that she won’t give the money back, and yet these same posters are saying the breeder has the dog’s best interests at heart? Bollocks does she? No responsible breeder would breed such huge dogs together and then sell them on a first come first served basis.

OP I couldn’t in all conscience rehome a dog which is already as aggressive as this one even as a pup and whose size makes the potential for seriously injuring or even killing someone not only a possibility but a likelihood in the event it attacked someone. Not even to a rescue, as I still could never be sure it didn’t go on to cause someone either a serious injury or even death.

I would in this instance have the dog put to sleep tomorrow without question, and I would go as far as to say that anything else would be irresponsible.

And I am a dog lover who generally believes that dogs are not aggressive by nature and that often there are provocations. But for everythingthere is an exception, and this is one of them IMO.

I’m going to discuss all options with my vet tomorrow. They sadly dealt with my last puppy so they know me well and they know I’ve been responsible in her care. I know I can trust them to help me find the right path for Hope. I can call the behaviourist too to get advice with how to manage her in the short term. I can walk her safely somewhere she’s been before that’s very quiet and make sure she still has playtime and her favourite foods. She will still recieve the best care despite the limitations while we find the best solution for her.

Would you even consider waiting until the behaviourist has seen her to see what she thinks?? I’ve be very interested to have her input.

In all honesty, with the escalation I’ve seen since we got her I really don’t think it would be possible for me to considering keeping her long term any more no matter how much I wish I could. She’s going to grow bigger faster than we are going to be able to work on this and while she still has a higher than average chance of lashing out, it’s not a risk I’m prepared to take.

Both rescues mentioned foster care as she’s under 6 months, this would be great if it’s possible and I would want to sponsor her care with the rescue to help pay for what she needs. If it was normal puppy behaviour that hadn’t escalated then I would continue working through it.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Just out a matter of interest what caused the death of you 19 week old pup?

Massive anaphylactic shock.

He swallowed a bee, which stung deep down his throat. The swelling caused was all internal so although he went downhill quickly there were no external symptoms.

They sedated him, put a tube down and found a plum sized lump in his throat where he had been stung. The vets prepped him for x ray but he collapsed, they tried resuscitation but the swelling in his throat and chest had caused his lungs to fill with blood and they couldn’t save him. They did his bloods after he passed and they confirmed the anaphylactic shock. The vet said she’d never seen a sting so far down in 30 years of medicine. It was massive bad luck.

OP, I think you need to separate your own feelings about the breeder and her rudeness from what might be best for the dog. Did you ask the breder what she would do with the dog when she got it back? Would she rehabilitate it and resell, would she quickly resell, would she keep the dog, would she have it PTS? These are important questions. You haven't got a handle on all the options without those answers. it doesn't really matter what the breeder thinks of you and your care of the dog. It's irrelevant, so put aside your offendedness on this.

As for a rescue centre, ask the same questions. It is likely that many will PTS because of the aggression (after initial assessment) as they cannot rehome a dog with aggressive tendencies. She is young so there may be hope for her, it will depend on whether the rescue centre think she is redeemable though.

Have you considered other options? There may be potential places who take in dogs to train as guard dogs, police dogs, forces dogs, agility, mountain rescue, etc. With her guarding instincts, need for stimulation, energy, breed mix and size, she may be well suited to a working life rather than a family life.

Have you also considered that she may have bonded with your DH, and is guarding him and treating you as a threat? This may explain her behaviour towards you. Something to discuss with the behaviourist.

With DC in your house, and these serious problems early on, I don't think keeping her long term is viable. It is too risky. And I say this as a dog owner with DC of my own.

Until you decide what you are going to do, for God's sake please change her diet and reduce the protein content! I'm banging on, but this could be a game changer and it's simple, with nothing to lose.

She lost it again in the car on the way to the breeder. So I spoke to the breeder and said I felt a rescue facility would be better.

Having been attacked in the car already, you put her on the front seat? Or next to you, again ??! Were you driving? Have you lost the the plot OP?

Why did you call the breeder on your way to her exactly? Why? Just to tell her that the puppy had done it again? Whay did you call her, and what sis you expect her to do?

I cannot get my head around that.

You have also OP claimed perfection in this matter, and taken no responsibility. Its all everyone else's fault yet....

You took on a 7 week old pup, a massive breed X from a breeder you claim was great, because you dod all your research. I've followed along with this, because you said you were perfect, and did everything perfect. That you had all the training and abilities you needed to manage this unknown breed mix.

You checked out this breeder you said, and were adamant the breeder and your choice were all good, above board and not at fault.

Yet...you signed no contract - big red flag (how didn't you know this considering your huge competencies?)

You argued with pp that this was an accident mating and told us a pathethic excuse foe this mating, which simoly isn't true (that her bitch came into season early, this isn't a thing - again tou argued it was (even though it isn't).

A pp challenged you, not altogether pleasantly, about the validity of all this and you promptly told them to fuck right off.

You have dc in the same house at this massive unknown x breed which you have no experience of.

You post that your puppy jumps at leaves blowing, well yes frankly, and a big dog makes big jumps. I don't get the issue there at all. Its a pup, and will jump around.

You blame everyone else on the thread for a massive turnaround about the breeder. Yet you ironically have done that.

You defended your decision of breeder, you did your research, you said, but you didn't even consider that you should have signes a contract?

Yes, it is enforceable. You are so azing and great at this, know exactly what you're doing yet, clearly missed glaring red flags

I am now horrified for this poor puppy at your hands, you sent away (cancelled) the apparently one professional who could have verified yoir account of things to the breeder, whom.you said you didn't think believed you. The one chance you had for outside professional input you turned away.

You have dc!!! Speechless.

I have to say, on balance, this puppy sounds highly anxious around you and you should, with all your training, predicted a.likely further attack in the car, yet seemingly couldn't preempt and avoid it, so you let that happen,

You called the breeder why? The breeder hassled you??? You blocked the breeder??

It's cruel sending a puppy to kennels

I'm sorry to hear about your last pup. Terrible bad luck and you must still be very sad about it. I still miss a cat I lost a few years ago who I'd only had for a year. It's so easy for them to steal your heart.

FWIW I think you are doing your best for this pup. I wouldn't see giving her up as a failure. It is what is best for you and your family. You/they must come first before the pup. If you can give her back to the breeder or find another no-kill option (where she isn't going to hurt someone else) then I think that is the best you can do. Keeping her in a home where it's not working or workable isn't fair on her or you. You cannot go on like this, being attacked by her constantly. Don't let it take an injury to force your hand. It might be your DC.

Quite frankly, aside from anything else I’m not going to spoken to by anyone the way she spoke to me. I wouldn’t let someone on the street talk to me like that and then hand over my dog. Being the breeder doesn’t afford her the right to speak to me like she did. It may not seem like it from how emotional I’ve been but reading back my messages I was calm and polite but I didn’t respond to her accusations and dealt with the facts as I know them rather than speculating about fault. She did backtrack and say she wanted her back to assess her herself but I’m afraid I don’t trust her to do that and would rather use the behaviourist I know to do that.

I think everyone needs to stop focusing on the breeder. She’s not going back there. End of. I refuse to hand over my responsibility so lightly to someone who told me to have her put to sleep.

She’s been off her raw food three days on solely on her kibble.

The rescues I’ve spoken to have mentioned behaviourists while in foster care if they’re able to help.

I've read the whole thread and noticed several people mentioning the raw food feeding regime being too high protein for puppies, and it can be the cause of some behavioural issues. Have you tried changing her diet OP?

X-post, sorry!

good job on the diet change. What % protein is her dry food?

I'm sorry but you are still focusing on your own feelings about how you were spoken to by the breeder. Put her rudeness aside, your feelings are not the issue here. What plans does she have for the dog? Why can't your DH take her to visit the breeder and discuss her future? If he isn't happy with her assessment/responses then he could bring her home again, surely?

Raw food doesn’t cause behavioural problems.

All I'm saying OP, is don't discount the breeder as an option yet. Explore fully and keep all your options open for now.

What do you think about contacting some working dog organisations? I don't have any links, but someone might suggest some.

@Wolfiefan too high a protein content in both puppies and adult dogs can indeed have an impact on behaviour. There is research to support this.

I'm paraphrasing. It was along the lines of too much protein = too much energy with insufficient outlet; I wasn't going to trawl back through nearly 300 posts for direct quotes.

Would using a muzzle be possible? For very short times, just so she can’t nip.