Need help with 7 month old puppy

[foxbasesecular43]

Hey, just before I go any further, I'm talking about a Cockerpoo, so please, only comment / offer advice if it's without any negative feedback on your thoughts of that particular mix of breeds - thanks

We've had this dog since he was 8 weeks old, did my research etc etc, happy with the breeder etc etc.

He's never given us a sleepless night, isn't destructive, only barks at other dogs, is great with kids and visitors, playful, fun, got a real character.

He's also really stubborn, and takes on training when he feels to - is fairly food orientated, but not 100% food orientated, and his biggest problem (apart from being quite pully on the lead but that's for another day) is that he doesn't just run off when off the lead - he takes himself off for laps round the park - and streaks past me completely ignoring anything I'm doing to get him back (ie throwing his favorite ball, treats, squeaky things etc etc).

It's so depressing - it means I actually can't let him off the lead, which is not what I'd hoped for when getting a dog - I really enjoy walking and basically assumed that my dog would be my walking companion - but today he totally ruined it by making me wait for 15 minutes in the park whilst he did laps, to the huge amusement of several other dog walkers who looked on in a mixture of horror and sympathy as I stood there watching him streak away in to the distance.

I have a long line which I keep him on in the main, but I think he really hates it so when he doesn't have it on he really makes the most of the freedom, I've tried the Citronella collar, but it makes no difference - I am becoming tempted to try the ecollar because I'm totally at my wits end.

As background, I do training with him practically every day, his recall in the house and garden is 99%, he's engaged with me, our bond is strong (not today it isn't, I can't stand the sight of him) I'm basically doing everything I feel I can to try and improve the situation and I've just reached a point where I'm thinking of sending him back to his breeder. no judgement please.

Has anyone got experience of a young dog doing this and then miraculously growing out of it?! Or was there something anyone did to change the dogs mindset?

Thanks in advance

Field, not fire!

My message is sent in friendship. I have this dog. He is clever and wilful and an absolute bastard. He knows not that he is in danger. I do. Please don’t believe that a whistle and some cheese will solve this. For many puppies maybe. But the best trainer (or behaviourist, I’ve had both and there is not much between them in my experience) said to me that acceptance is key. If your dog needs a long line then a long line it is. I can’t trust mine so this is his life. Not the one I wanted but the one that’s safe for him. I invested hours and £s so it’s not laziness in my part and no positive reinforcement only message is getting through to my pupper. They are all different. Train the dog in front of you with the techniques currently available. And relax. This is your dog. He may not be the one you dreamt of. But he is the one you’ve got.

@lorisparkle I’ve been looking for one, but can’t find what I’m looking for - is there a link you can send?

@Rhootintootinboo hah, there’s always two sides to a story. That is something that I’ve contemplated - and some days I do have a knowledge of acceptance wash over me - but, I figure that he’s only young, I’m keen to try so I’m going to persevere- I’m confident he will never be the dog that walks meekly at my hella where ever I go and that he’ll always be a bit of a bugger but I think he’s got room for improvement. Keep your fingers crossed for me!

This is the kind of line you want to leave trailing behind your dog, although, honestly washing line will do the same job for a lot less money.

www.amazon.co.uk/Lightest-Long-Line-Ever-50/dp/B003W5Y8F8?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

This is the kind of long lead you let out and gather in to allow an on lead dog more freedom. For dogs that really have no recall this is a good walking aid.

www.amazon.co.uk/Mikki-Lightweight-Training-Recall-Lead/dp/B003TJVPJE?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I am not very good at adding links. I just searched for long leads for dogs on amazon! I can't remember what length we have got but it just gives us that little bit of security. Our dog is amazing at recall unless there are other people and dogs around and then he is horrendous! We are worried he might get bitten or knock someone over.

Here is a go at a link which looks similar to what we have...,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dog-Tracking-Lead-10m-training/dp/B01M8G6V1C/ref=ascdff_B01M8G6V1C/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309950281379&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10633417097096692792&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006527&hvtargid=pla-562986345763&psc=1

I bought a retractable lead 8m long for this purpose but she repeatedly yanked my arm out of its socket (okay not literally but you get the picture!) so I don't think I will subject myself to that anymore.

A retractable lead is not suitable for training recall, and shouldn't be used on a dog that is going to pull enough to yank your arm - also must never be used attached to the dog's collar, only with a harness.

My dog was on a trailing lead for months until I felt we'd mastered a good recall, also only ever attached to a harness.

I don't understand why some pp are saying training leads are too heavy. As a fully grown adult my dog only weighs 6.6 kilos. When she was running around with the trailing lead she was a lot smaller.

I read an awful story of someone that had her hand ‘de-gloved’ when her dog suddenly pulled on a retractable lead.

Well I knew I would pay for boasting. Just had a bad walk with dog. He jumped up at a woman with his muddy paws, he chased a dog (they were playing) crying and tapping because he was over excited and then would come when I shouted (managed to grab him eventually). And then he disappeared after a squirrel.

The rest of the walk was lead on!

Funnily enough I don't like retractable leads but read a bbc news article last month about a woman who was de-gloved with a normal lead, and surgeons were urging dog owners to use retractable leads for safety

The retractable leads with the metal bit can be very dangerous.

I've used a retractable lead most of the time with my dog for the whole of her life. I would never use a metal one, apart from being potentially dangerous for the owner they are likely to snap.

The one I use is a tape. In 8 years I have never had a problem, but my dog is small, doesn't pull and I know how to use this type of lead in a sensible manner.

They are certainly not suitable for a lot of the dogs I seen them on and every time I see one attached to a dog's collar, which is surprising often, I have to bite my tongue so as not to say anything to the owner.

I also have a dog that can't be off lead. I'm pretty sure that if I had hundreds of acres of land he'd happily take himself off hunting for the day and come back for dinner and cuddles in the evening. But I don't, and I really don't want him to be run over or hit by a train or cause a car accident. I'd be lying if I said it didn't make me sad, but it is what it is. I walk and run with him with a harness and waist belt, he does various classes to make him use his brain, there are a couple of parks nearby that are fenced enough that he can be on a long line while I try to engage with him using a rabbit skin toy on a bungee and fifty million treats. Sometimes I seriously wonder just how expensive it would be to buy my own field!

Squirrel26 Don't have to buy your own field but it's often possible to hire one.

I know someone with a dog reactive rescue so can only be let off if there are no other dogs around. They managed to find a field to hire for £5 an hour.

Dog training clubs and agility clubs are a good place to start asking about enclosed fields for rent.

Where we go for training there is an enclosed paddock for hire. It’s great - but it’s a 40 minute drive each way and there isn’t one closer. It’s just too far to make it part of our daily routine.

I wish there were enclosed fields near us! The closest is almost an hour by car each way - it's just not worth it.

Enclosed fields are too far away for us as well if I wanted to use them. I often look at all the small fields here which look unused and wonder who owns them.

Whilst I now have recall I can't do traditional walks as he just wants to play ball or hunt and will circle my feet and trip me up if I don't engage with him. Sometimes I do get envious of the dogs that just want to walk and sniff alongside you but I guess I shouldn't have got a cocker

well, I have a dog that doesn't want to bolt or go hunting, but is determined to play with every dog or cricket team in the neighbourhood, so I don't need an enclosed field, I need it NOT to be the weekend. Today was a nightmare, picnickers, small children, endless games of rounders and cricket - parks are for dogs I tell you!!! Dog looked very despondent on the lead, refused to walk at all when surrounded by these delights he wasn't allowed to access, and was only persuaded to catch the bus home when he saw a dachshund in the distance.

@lorisparkle thanks for trying - I'm going to stick with the one i've got and keep at it with my whistle and steak and primula.....

next thing is to work on his incessant lead pulling...

He's clearly well and truly hit adolescence. I know your pain as my previous dog was a JRT with acutely selective hearing. Over nearly 14 years - and countless training methods (NONE of them avoiding citronella or worse, e-collars) I realised that there were some places that he simply wasn't reliable. Because once in 'hunt mode', he was actually elsewhere. He came back when tired. In town he was just fine and recalled well. Get him in the fields behind my house or on top of the downs and he was a nightmare. So he was walked on a long line and was totally unbothered about it.

You may have to consider whether your pup can be 100% reliable off lead in all conditions and act accordingly. As for pulling, you need training classes. You can't be doing with the disappearing and the incessant pulling.

I have a Cavapoo and can totally relate to this, it was absolutely grim for 4 or 5 months. But he’s 15 months old now and a complete joy, beautiful recall. I suspect the difference has been a combination of keeping at the training (all the good advice you’ve had here) and that he’s just matured. So keep at it, I’m sure he’ll improve and you’ll get the joy back!

Once in ‘hunt mode’ he was actually elsewhere.

This is such a good way of putting it. I can literally see mine snapping in and then (eventually) out.

Please DON'T use an e-collar or any sort of strong aversive on your dog; he's an adolescent pup still in basic training who is doing what adolescent pups do and pushing the boundaries, not a hardened sheep killer out of options.

It's possible to break a dog's heart - and certainly mess up its mind - with such things. I have seen this happen and it's really not worth the risk in your case. Yes he may stop and return to you but he may also bolt in screaming panic when he gets shocked. So then he gets shocked again... No. Just no.

Using an e-collar for a common, basic hiccup in adolescent dog behaviour which trainers see every week is way over the top, sorry. See how many other posters in this thread say their dog was horrible at this age but is now wonderful: don't be discouraged.

Go back to basics with him as though teaching recall for the first time. Long-line on permanently, high value rewards and if possible go to a training class so he can learn to come away from other dogs, etc. and you can be shown balanced methods of encouraging recall. There is a method involving simply throwing treats and recalling on a long-line which is particularly effective.

For information, e-collars are currently banned in Wales and under discussion in Scotland but still unfortunately legal in England.

Yes he may stop and return to you but he may also bolt in screaming panic when he gets shocked. So then he gets shocked again... No. Just no

This really sums up the point I was trying to make.

Most people don't have a bloody clue how to use them.

If they did, the dog would never be 'bolting in screaming panic' because you would know what level the dog feels and responds to without distress.

You do not guess the level and shock.
That is abusive and cruel and dangerous.

There is a method involving simply throwing treats and recalling on a long-line which is particularly effective

And this, will not compare to the thrill of say, chasing a squirrel.

Positive training only works if the reward is greater than the behaviour you are trying to stop.

When it comes to problems like the OP, often treats and toys just don't match the adrenaline high the dog gets from the 'naughty' behaviour.